(01-04-2016, 04:06 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It's amazing how people aren't getting this. 
His overall throwing release is fine. 
But the game is just too much for him to process. He's not seeing it quick enough. Unless it's a predetermined throw, the process is too long

I truly think this is to be expected from a guy with three NFL starts.  The game is SO much quicker than it is in college, even the SEC.

Unfortunately what we are seeing from him does like up with his scouting reports out of college. For example:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/1/21/5319514/aj-mccarron-2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report

He has indeed been better throwing to the sidelines than across the middle. And he is having major pocket awareness issues. And the less he has to read things the better he looks.

Now except for that first game and the comical endgame sequence in Denver he is taking care of the ball which is good. But he is allowing pressure to mess with decision making. We'll see if it can be coached out of him.

(01-04-2016, 03:24 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I truly think this is to be expected from a guy with three NFL starts.  The game is SO much quicker than it is in college, even the SEC.

Sure maybe, but then people need to acknowledge this and stop blaming everyone else for the QB failing. The OL is getting beat up on here because AJM has no idea what the hell he's doing until it's too late. 

(01-04-2016, 04:17 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Sure maybe, but then people need to acknowledge this and stop blaming everyone else for the QB failing. The OL is getting beat up on here because AJM has no idea what the hell he's doing until it's too late. 

I agree with you.  Many people have claimed that the OL is terrible in years past when Dalton wasn't making the reads and progressions as quickly as well.

(01-04-2016, 04:17 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Sure maybe, but then people need to acknowledge this and stop blaming everyone else for the QB failing. The OL is getting beat up on here because AJM has no idea what the hell he's doing until it's too late. 

He knows enough to get the team to 2-1 in three starts with one loss coming to best defense in OT. Not sure what you're expecting from a guy in his second year and only three starts. He's made some great throws under pressure. His throw to Sanu while being hit, on 3rd down in crunch time to get the team into position to tie the game is a man's throw. I understand you can't stand the guy, but he's doing a fine job. He could do better,  but it is what he is. Three starts in 2nd year is not going to look the same as 5th year having MVP year. Just face the fact and quit whining. 

(01-04-2016, 06:01 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: He knows enough to get the team to 2-1 in three starts with one loss coming to best defense in OT. Not sure what you're expecting from a guy in his second year and only three starts. He's made some great throws under pressure. His throw to Sanu while being hit, on 3rd down in crunch time to get the team into position to tie the game is a man's throw. I understand you can't stand the guy, but he's doing a fine job. He could do better,  but it is what he is. Three starts in 2nd year is not going to look the same as 5th year having MVP year. Just face the fact and quit whining. 

Well, those 2 wins came against teams that have 5 wins each. 

We aren't playing a 5 team win Saturday.
You lose all benefit of the doubt when people say how the team would be better off under him, so let's see it. 

(01-04-2016, 06:18 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Well, those 2 wins came against teams that have 5 wins each. 

We aren't playing a 5 team win Saturday.
You lose all benefit of the doubt when people say how the team would be better off under him, so let's see it. 

How does he lose the benefit of the doubt when OTHERS say that. Bitter much? I know the team is better off with Andy at this time, but I'm not going to nitpick someone in their 4th start when he is doing a serviceable job. 

I mean we can always go with Wenning and see what he's got. 

(01-04-2016, 05:16 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I agree with you.  Many people have claimed that the OL is terrible in years past when Dalton wasn't making the reads and progressions as quickly as well.

I remember a lot of people blaming Dalton for getting sacked 46 times in 2012.

(01-04-2016, 06:27 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: How does he lose the benefit of the doubt when OTHERS say that. Bitter much? I know the team is better off with Andy at this time, but I'm not going to nitpick someone in their 4th start when he is doing a serviceable job. 

I mean we can always go with Wenning and see what he's got. 

Not bitter, objective. 
He's been objectively mediocre at best. The offense is dead when he's not scripted a drive by Hue. When you need him to do actual QB things he has failed. 
He hasn't read the defense, he hasn't been able to get protections right....

(01-04-2016, 06:59 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember a lot of people blaming Dalton for getting sacked 46 times in 2012.

Yup, his rookie year he was good about getting rid of the ball rather than taking a sack, his second year he tried to hold onto it longer, make more plays where there were none.

It's why he went right back and has stayed in the 20s prior to that year and every year since.

This is an interesting thread. First of all, there is a gigantic dropoff from Andy Dalton to AJ McCarron which is the case on any NFL roster. With that said, Cincinnati is fortunate to have AJ McCarron because the dropoff is not as damaging as it would be on other teams.

I'm impressed with AJ McCarron because given his lack of experience, he has been terrific against some very potent defenses. He's only going to get better, too.

In this thread there is a significant debate about how fast a quarterback gets the ball out of his hands on passing plays and there are many factors which go into this. First of all, the offensive line must protect the quarterback for a sufficient time for the intended receivers to run their routes, Second, the receivers must be open. Third, the quarterback must go through his progression as fast as possible once the play begins. Of these two factors, the second is the most important because if receivers do not achieve separation, the quarterback must either run, throw the ball away, or take a sack. Even if a quarterback gets the ball out in record time it's all for naught if the receivers are not open. In this case a quick release is a recipe for interceptions.

(01-04-2016, 09:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not bitter, objective. 
He's been objectively mediocre at best. The offense is dead when he's not scripted a drive by Hue. When you need him to do actual QB things he has failed. 
He hasn't read the defense, he hasn't been able to get protections right....

Sort of like his audible to throw AJ Green the fade route vs. Baltimore?

Good old RoyleRedarse.  Bitter and negative about everything.

(01-04-2016, 09:30 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not bitter, objective. 
He's been objectively mediocre at best. The offense is dead when he's not scripted a drive by Hue. When you need him to do actual QB things he has failed. 
He hasn't read the defense, he hasn't been able to get protections right....

Now I'm not saying you're too negative but you're starting to repel electrons.

Maybe it's been mentioned, but AJ has bailed on decent protection and doesn't step up into the pocket like he should. If I/we can see this, I'm certain the coaches have too and have tried to correct his pocket awareness. So far though, it hasn't worked.

If we had a really good ground game (which we dont) then I wouldnt be as worried about this game as much. But between that and big game coaching let alone Dalton most likely out, I dont know.

(01-04-2016, 10:13 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Now I'm not saying you're too negative but you're starting to repel electrons.

How's it negative?
It's the facts of what happened! 

Against a bad team, he managed one scoring drive of more than 36 yards.
Once Denver adjusted to Hue and the offense actually had to do it's own thing, they got shut down.
Same thing in Baltimore. 

I like the thought Wes, but some of that logic is flawed.

I broke down here why lumping in a lot of those backups isn't really applicable to what McCarron and the Bengals are about to undertake.

Hopefully y'all will do me the courtesy of clicking and reading (it's worth it, I think) but the gist of it is this: there is no real apples to apples comparison. No backup with McCarron's limited experience has done this. Vince Ferragamo in '79 is the closest comp, but even he at least played his rookie year and he got 5 starts under his belt in the regular season.

Our prediction will be out on Friday, but I agree with you - the Bengals are the better team from top down on the roster. McCarron has proven to me he is a competent NFL backup - which let's be real, we had no idea if that would be the case when he came in - so all is not lost on Saturday night.

So only logic and Facts are allowed...

Here's some Facts:

This will be the first NFL game where AJ has some experience playing against the other team
AJ has not thrown an interception in any of his starts
AJ has a 97.1 avg passer rating and managed a 87.8 passer rating against a top defense
When we lost to the stoolers AJ threw for 280 yards and 2 TDs the Bengals out gained their offense but we lost due to turnovers
The Bengals roster is more talented overall

Thus it follows that, AJ will likely perform at an adequate level limiting turnovers and giving the better Bengals team a good chance at beating a familiar foe.

(01-03-2016, 11:34 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: This is more true than many would like to admit. If the backup QB can do exactly what was expected of the starting QB...play solid and not lose the game...the team should advance. Obviously Dalton's experience level gives him a sizable advantage over McCarron but other than that they are virtually the same level as far as skillset goes. 

Dalton was have a very good year, there is no question to that. If McCarron approaches the game plan the same way he will (and has to this point) produced very similarly to what Andy did in the first 3 QTR's of the season. As you said "the team was built to hide the deficiencies of the QB". 

The team was not built to hide deficiencies, the team was built to help a good QB win football games.. They did not draft Andy Dalton because they found him deficient, they drafted him because they liked his skill set.

The closer we get to this game the more I think we're gonna win.