(03-28-2024, 02:42 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Great point, the new guy has to figure out the new pieces and make ll the defensive calls McDonald made. 

We will see, but on paper Ravens are not better in 2024, not yet at least. Another factor is they lost their backup QB who played a lot the past 2 seasons when Jackson was hurt.

McDonald was a really impressive DC and I was really happy to see him go lol

Good point on their backup QB as well, we all know Lamar has problems staying healthy and the backup will most likely have to play.

(03-28-2024, 01:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, Ravens draft and develop players very well. The question becomes is due to cap constraints can they be better in 2024 losing 8 starters. I actually count 8 starters lost and one replaced.

Edwards - RB
Simpson - G
Zeitler - Guard
Moses - RT
Queen - LB
Stone - safety
Beckham - WR
Clowney - DE


Gain of Henry, also as of now Dobbins is not signed, but injuries have derailed him

Stone was not a true starter for them. Their FS, Marcus Williams missed 8 games or so and Stone got those starts, and then played in 3 safety packages, granted they did play 3 safety looks a lot. While Odell is a big name, if you look at his snap counts, he was really the WR #4 for them in terms of game reps. Flowers, Bateman, and Agholor all played more than him. Certainly some losses but I really think the only players that will be more of a challenge to replace are:

Queen, Clowney, Zeitler, and Moses. 

They drafted Queen's replacement last year and he played well in his 1 start last year, but you obviously never know like we've seen w/ Dax. 
They drafted the good guard prospect Vorhees, the guy that tore his ACL at the combine late in the 2023 draft and stashed him all year with plan to have him replace one of their guards. Simpson is an average guard at best, so if he can be a decent player it's a wash.

Clowney , Zeitler, Moses are the spots when I look at their roster/recent moves that Im not sure what their plan is. Ojabo has 2 sacks in 5 career games....but has also only played 5 games in 2 years with achilles & ACL injuries so I doubt they are banking on him to step up.

However, at this time last year, and even into training camp, if you looked at their OLBs you would have said it was a weakness after losing JPP & Justin Houston. I think they signed Clowney in August and Van Noy in September and they both had 9 sacks.

(03-28-2024, 04:24 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: Stone was not a true starter for them. Their FS, Marcus Williams missed 8 games or so and Stone got those starts, and then played in 3 safety packages, granted they did play 3 safety looks a lot. While Odell is a big name, if you look at his snap counts, he was really the WR #4 for them in terms of game reps. Flowers, Bateman, and Agholor all played more than him. Certainly some losses but I really think the only players that will be more of a challenge to replace are:

Queen, Clowney, Zeitler, and Moses. 

They drafted Queen's replacement last year and he played well in his 1 start last year, but you obviously never know like we've seen w/ Dax. 
They drafted the good guard prospect Vorhees, the guy that tore his ACL at the combine late in the 2023 draft and stashed him all year with plan to have him replace one of their guards. Simpson is an average guard at best, so if he can be a decent player it's a wash.

Clowney , Zeitler, Moses are the spots when I look at their roster/recent moves that Im not sure what their plan is. Ojabo has 2 sacks in 5 career games....but has also only played 5 games in 2 years with achilles & ACL injuries so I doubt they are banking on him to step up.

However, at this time last year, and even into training camp, if you looked at their OLBs you would have said it was a weakness after losing JPP & Justin Houston. I think they signed Clowney in August and Van Noy in September and they both had 9 sacks.

Simpson signed a 2 year 18-million-dollar deal. I am not sure what the average salary for a guard is in the NFL, but our 2 starting guards don't make 9 million on average a year.

My post clearly stated as of now Ravens roster is depleted. You don't agree as of now the Ravens have many holes to fill??

(03-28-2024, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Simpson signed a 2 year 18-million-dollar deal. I am not sure what the average salary for a guard is in the NFL, but our 2 starting guards don't make 9 million on average a year.

My post clearly stated as of now Ravens roster is depleted. You don't agree as of now the Ravens have many holes to fil

Had you ever head of John Simpson before last year? Teams overpay for players all the time. He graded out at 56 on PFF and had the 2nd most penalties in the league. 
 This time last year, it was "How are they going to replace Ben Powers".
I told you where I think they have potential holes. Losing a player doesn't always mean you have an actual hole there.  

(03-28-2024, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: McDonald was a really impressive DC and I was really happy to see him go lol

Good point on their backup QB as well, we all know Lamar has problems staying healthy and the backup will most likely have to play.

I mean, Huntley is 3-6 as a starter so it's not like he was helping them do much in games w/o Lamar anyway. I think we are starting to overreact to some of these departures lol.

(03-28-2024, 06:36 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: I mean, Huntley is 3-6 as a starter so it's not like he was helping them do much in games w/o Lamar anyway. I think we are starting to overreact to some of these departures lol.

I have not seen anything but respect for the way Baltimore drafts and develops players.

There is no overreaction, just stating facts. As of now, Ravens have little cap space to spend and a lot of roster players to sign. They do have 11 draft picks again, but to think they will hit on 5 or 6 major contributors may be a stretch.

They are a great organization, no disputing it. But they also lost a great DC and a lot of players that knew their system. 

In the end, I think if both QB's are healthy we split with Ravens in 2024. Their current roster does say Super Bowl bound to me or best record in AFC or AFCN. It may in September, but not now.

(03-28-2024, 07:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have not seen anything but respect for the way Baltimore drafts and develops players.

There is no overreaction, just stating facts. As of now, Ravens have little cap space to spend and a lot of roster players to sign. They do have 11 draft picks again, but to think they will hit on 5 or 6 major contributors may be a stretch.

They are a great organization, no disputing it. But they also lost a great DC and a lot of players that knew their system. 

In the end, I think if both QB's are healthy we split with Ravens in 2024. Their current roster does say Super Bowl bound to me or best record in AFC or AFCN. It may in September, but not now.

There’s a pattern here Luvnit. This poster consistently talks down our moves while talking up/ignoring issues on other teams - like the Rats. Add in the short history and the possibility that we have a non Bengals fan here shows itself.

(03-28-2024, 08:55 PM)Joelist Wrote: There’s a pattern here Luvnit. This poster consistently talks down our moves while talking up/ignoring issues on other teams - like the Rats. Add in the short history and the possibility that we have a non Bengals fan here shows itself.

Yes, the Ravens will still make multiple moves with no cap space, and the Bengals will make none with  lots of space left.

(03-28-2024, 09:26 PM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: Yes, the Ravens will still make multiple moves with no cap space, and the Bengals will make none with  lots of space left.

I bet you a buck the bengals make some more moves.

(03-28-2024, 10:40 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I bet you a buck the bengals make some more moves.

I agree the Bengals aren't done. First they'll have the draft then there will be more moves when other teams start cutting to get back under the cap. 

(03-29-2024, 12:51 AM)Joelist Wrote: I agree the Bengals aren't done. First they'll have the draft then there will be more moves when other teams start cutting to get back under the cap. 

Best FA still available, that could fit with bengals needs.

2. CB STEPHON GILMORE, DALLAS COWBOYS

Gilmore's trade from the Indianapolis Colts to the Dallas Cowboys this offseason got him back to playing contending football, and he hasn't skipped a beat at any point as he's moved around over the past few years. Gilmore still thrives in single coverage and can jostle with the more physical receivers who play through contact, timing his leap well on contested catches and jumping routes with top-end play recognition. A matchup with A.J. Brown in Week 14 had him playing inspired football after Brown allegedly called him old early on in the contest. Gilmore rose to the occasion and locked Brown down until the game was out of reach in the second half.

3. CB STEVEN NELSON, HOUSTON TEXANS

Nelson was a great fit for the Houston Texans in back-to-back seasons despite a defensive shift from Lovie Smith to DeMeco Ryans. He has logged a healthy dose of snaps in so many different coverage schemes dating back to his days with the Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers and Kansas City Chiefs. The ever-consistent Nelson played 950-plus snaps for the sixth consecutive season in 2023, best suited in off coverage with great lateral agility and the instincts to click and close still popping up on tape in coverage and run support.

4. C CONNOR WILLIAMS, MIAMI DOLPHINS

Williams started his career with the Dallas Cowboys at left guard and blossomed in Miami at center, thriving as a run blocker in Mike McDaniel's zone blocking scheme, where he was able to quickly get to the second level and lead the way. While he doesn't have the world's strongest anchor in a phone booth, his fast first step off the line enables him to seal off defenders on the backside of runs by getting in position. Williams suffered a torn ACL in Week 14, which has impacted his market.

5. CB XAVIEN HOWARD, MIAMI DOLPHINS

Howard was released after a great eight-year run in Miami, with his coverage grades dipping into the 50s in each of the past two seasons. He has expressed a strong desire to play for a contender, and has even said he’d be open to taking less money to chase a ring. Pivoting to playing more man coverage could get him back to where he excelled earlier in his career.

7. G DALTON RISNER, MINNESOTA VIKINGS

Risner's 2023 free agency didn't pan out as he'd hoped, so he bided his time before joining the Minnesota Vikings a few weeks into the season on a one-year flier. Risner quickly supplanted Ezra Cleveland at left guard and was a plus pass protector for the fifth season in a row. Risner does well to initiate contact with a solid punch, ensuring he doesn't expose his chest or get his hands swatted away. Even on bull rushes when Risner is driven back and gives up pressure, he keeps his feet square and stays in front of the rusher to prevent a hit on the quarterback, frequently providing his signal-caller with just enough time to still get a pass off.

10. WR ODELL BECKHAM JR., BALTIMORE RAVENS

Beckham progressively looked more and more like his old self as 2023 wore on. His 90.0 receiving grade from Weeks 9-14 trailed only Tyreek Hill among wide receivers. Beckham’s usage declined later in the season, but he can still make a huge impact on any given Sunday.

11. DI TEAIR TART, HOUSTON TEXANS

Tart had a very strange and tumultuous 2023 season with the Titans after the two sides were unable to come to terms on an extension before the year. Tart played on the second-round restricted free-agent tender for $4.3 million, but his effort and focus were questioned at times by the coaching staff before he was ultimately waived ahead of Week 15. The Houston Texans claimed Tart, with two other teams also putting in claims, so clearly the concerns weren't so bad as to scare off suitors. On the field, Tart is difficult to displace with just one blocker in the run game, and he has solid juice as a pass rusher. He makes a great member of a platoon as a zero- or one-technique who can push a pocket or knife through double teams, and he shows good recognition as to when to get his hands up for a batted pass.

12. WR TYLER BOYD, CINCINNATI BENGALS

Boyd is a big slot receiver with solid blocking chops in the run game. He rarely ever drops a target and does well to sit in soft spots of zones on key passing downs. However, Boyd posted several career-low marks in 2023, and with so many big financial decisions facing Cincinnati, the Bengals may not be willing to offer him as much as other teams looking to upgrade their unit over the middle.

13. CB ADOREE' JACKSON, NEW YORK GIANTS

Jackson cross-trained this offseason for a move to a full-time slot role but ended up moving back out wide after just two games. The first half of the Giants' season featured an aggressive defense that ranked second in blitz rate but still couldn't get home on the quarterback with any consistency, regularly leaving their cornerbacks on islands with extremely difficult assignments. Wink Martindale's unit turned a corner over the second half of the year, and Jackson looked improved once returning from injury. Injuries have limited him in four of the past five seasons, but he has true inside-outside versatility with good lateral agility and a knack for making plays on the football, often laying out for acrobatic pass breakups after goading quarterbacks into the occasional throw into his coverage area.

14. DI CALAIS CAMPBELL, ATLANTA FALCONS

Campbell is an ageless wonder who continued to be one of the strongest players in the NFL at his new stop in Atlanta this past season, with a dip in burst off the line when rushing the passer made up for by an anchor against the run as difficult to displace as any defensive lineman in the NFL.

15. EDGE CARL LAWSON, NEW YORK JETS

Lawson signed a reworked contract heading into the 2023 season that lowered his salary to $6 million, but he still found himself as a healthy scratch for much of the year as part of a crowded edge defender room. The seventh-year pro has good burst off the line and wins with a combination of speed to power and quick hands, but he isn't necessarily the bendiest edge rusher. Lawson earned a 72.8 pass-rush grade with 49 pressures and eight sacks in 2022, his first season back from the torn Achilles he suffered in 2021. Injuries have impacted his career, but he's still a productive player off the edge.

17. WR DEONTE HARTY, BUFFALO BILLS

Harty’s speed is a weapon for any offense, and he could have increased value with the new kickoff return rule recently passed by the NFL, with the added threat of returns boosting his contributions in both phases

18. WR D.J. CHARK JR., CAROLINA PANTHERS

Chark has struggled to separate at the intermediate and deep levels in recent years, and inopportune drops also plagued him a bit over the tail end of the 2023 campaign. That said, he still brings field-stretching ability and should be more productive in any other offense besides Carolina's.

19. WR MICHAEL THOMAS, NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

Thomas is still a smooth glider who can make contested catches with great hands and footwork along the sideline. He doesn't quite have the same explosiveness of his heydays, but elite athleticism was never necessarily how he won. He is more of a master technician, so it's all a question of health.

(03-28-2024, 10:40 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I bet you a buck the bengals make some more moves.

I was obviously being sarcastic.

(03-29-2024, 10:19 AM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: I was obviously being sarcastic.

Hard to tell…. You seemed pretty adamant. In fact the ravens have had more losses than adds, while the bengals have had more adds than losses.

(03-28-2024, 08:55 PM)Joelist Wrote: There’s a pattern here Luvnit. This poster consistently talks down our moves while talking up/ignoring issues on other teams - like the Rats. Add in the short history and the possibility that we have a non Bengals fan here shows itself.

Lol ah yes, I'm clearly not a Bengals fan because I said OBJr wasn't good last year and that many on this board are overreacting predicting anything more than a game or so downfall from a team that returns 9 starters on defense, 5/6 top pass catchers, and a better RB all while acknowledging they have a couple holes at this point. 

Maybe I'm a realist? So they can't replace their losses but many on this board seem to think Charlie Jones and Isoivas could replace Tee. Make it make sense.

(03-29-2024, 11:35 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: Lol ah yes, I'm clearly not a Bengals fan because I said OBJr wasn't good last year and that many on this board are overreacting predicting anything more than a game or so downfall from a team that returns 9 starters on defense, 5/6 top pass catchers, and a better RB all while acknowledging they have a couple holes at this point. 

Maybe I'm a realist? So they can't replace their losses but many on this board seem to think Charlie Jones and Isoivas could replace Tee. Make it make sense.

I think OBJ had the best LT performance for the bengals in a while. PFF disagrees. Is there anyone that can put the full PFF grades for OBJ in 2023 and Jonah Williams in 2021. I’m asking bc of the following.

OBJ 2023 - 66.1 grade, 1058 snaps, 3 penalties and 7 sacks
JW 2021 - 77.1 grade, 1044 snaps, 4 penalties, and 8 sacks

The difference has to be in the other metrics, I just don’t have access.

Out of all the guys left in FA, I hope the Bengals steer clear of Conner Williams. He would have been a decent signing last year or the year before, but it's obvious we lack the horses to run wide zone. He would be just another square peg in a round hole. They'd try to go back to it, fail as usual, then go back to power gap once they wasted 4-8 games getting Burrow killed and ZM / CB at 3YPC.

(03-28-2024, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Simpson signed a 2 year 18-million-dollar deal. I am not sure what the average salary for a guard is in the NFL, but our 2 starting guards don't make 9 million on average a year.

My post clearly stated as of now Ravens roster is depleted. You don't agree as of now the Ravens have many holes to fill??

Both of the main cap sites have him at 2yr/$12m (and looks structured to be essentially a 1yr/$6m deal with a $6m team option for the second year). If you look at all the articles announcing it, the $18m is one of those "worth UP TO" kind of deals that aren't real, but get reported because it makes the player and agent look better.

There's 17 guards making at least $13m/yr right now. Top-10 money starts at $17m/yr. For a contract signed in 2024 $6m/yr is pretty mediocre starting guard money. That's $2.75m/yr less than Cappa signed for in 2022.

The Browns recently had the same situation where the reported number was the "worth up to" number with Jeudy getting "up to" $58m, but it was really $52.5m... which is still an overpay for Jeudy, but nearly $2m/yr less than the up to number.

Out of Bengalbug's list Adoree Jackson could be good value. Some of the top corners left are seeing the 8.5M that white got and holding out for say 6-7M. Once a few go, less money and demand left out there. So, Cincy should be able to sign a decent one for about what they're paying Trent Brown. That also won't preclude them from taking corner if they are BPA in the draft. With the depth left on the market, it's better to get one now than to hope for one after the draft if you strike out...then they have the leverage.

(03-29-2024, 11:53 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote:  They'd try to go back to it, fail as usual, then go back to power gap once they wasted 4-8 games getting Burrow killed and ZM / CB at 3YPC.

I feel like they avoided that cycle well last season. Probably because Burrow couldn't play under center those first 6 games, but let's hope they are over that wide zone.

(03-29-2024, 01:09 PM)jj22 Wrote: I feel like they avoided that cycle well last season. Probably because Burrow couldn't play under center those first 6 games, but let's hope they are over that wide zone.

I really hope we're done with the constant flirtations with wide zone. Especially now that we not only have an OL whose best scheme is power gap but a starter at RB who likewise is best in power gap.