(03-25-2024, 03:39 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: KC this past year showed you don;t need a great offense game in and game out, when you have a very good defense, balance and depth can win SBs.. I have little doubt that Bengals can compete without Tee especially when we think of the cost to keep him and with surplus of very good WRs coming out more and more in the draft..

If we are able to get a #2 for Tee, I see three impact players coming out of our draft in 1st and 2nd round for this season

And I have little doubt had KC had another really good receiver like Tee they’d repeated. Again there is not one formula. KC’s defense was bolstered in free agency no doubt and played much better.

FYI, I am not on the trade Tee train.

But there are 2 teams that stick out with major needs, cap money and draft capital.

#1 is Commanders who have a lot of picks early in the second round including (#4 pick 36) and #8 (#40).  They also have a ton of cap space.

#2 is the Pats who don't have the draft capital but do have the 2nd pick in round 2 and have the cap space.

I love Tee he has shown he can be a #1 when Chase was out. Thing is he doesn't have the #1 numbers over his total career. Say what you will but the numbers don't add up to be a guy paid like a Jefferson or Chase will. I don't blame him for trying to get that but he hasn't showed he's that guy consistently over his short career.

Could say well he plays second fiddle to Ja'mmar, had Boyd getting a decent amount of targets, he's been injured etc which I do give him props for playing through that rib injury as a guy that's played and has had multiple rib injuries they hurt like a ***** and being a wr is one of the toughest positions to play with busted up ribs, glad I wasn't a wr when I was busted up I'll tell ya that. That said he's always had some problems with drops, and not just last year with the ribs which I don't blame him for other than some of the easy ones where he was hit right in the numbers and didn't need to reach or brace for a hit which he definitely had a few of em. Anyway all that aside there has been plenty of teams that had 3 guys that got fed a lot over the last 20 or so years when they NFL became a true pass 1st league. Just off the top of my head there was teams like the Colts who had Harrison Wayne and a TE Clark. That's just 1 example there's plenty more. Hell you could even go back to Carson Chad and TJ days with different 3rd target guys in the mix and TJ ended up having statistically better seasons in an offense that didn't throw near as much as this one does and TJ was more of a possession guy where Tee is a different type of wr which leads to my next point.

Tee is in the mold of tall long wr's with a big catch radius. He runs a lot of go or fade routes, digs button hooks whatever terminology you wanna use. He usually finds the hole in zones and sits down, runs a slants, goes deep, back shoulder balls or 50/50 balls which granted it's at least 60/40 with him depending on match up. He has decent speed and it can be deceptive with the long strides he has. I can't remember what game it was last year but I think it was KC and they showed a replay of a deep ball they didn't connect on. I only say that because on the replay when the ball goes in the air and he knows it's to him he hit that next gear and was absolutely flying. On that replay that was easily the fastest I've ever seen him run. It was reminiscent of Chad Johnson Randy Moss or T.O. when you saw that hit that next gear.

Anyway that's the skillet he has his prototype of you will. Is he worth the money he wants? Idk I'd I'm on board with that, hell even the tag money I'm iffy on. I don't know how good of a blocker he is but I do know I can recall more times seeing him not blocking well or sometimes even looking like he wasn't giving much effort to block. Not saying he wasn't that's just what I took from seeing it and I have watched every single game for years. He draws a lot of offensive p.i. penalties too which yes some were somewhat on the QB under throwing him or him being held and trying to get the db off of him but regardless of that being the type of wr he is you'd thing he would have perfected that by now being suddle with his hands low on the hip and trying not to extend his long
arms fully higher up into the chest or shoulder area. I don't know when teams stopped wearing gloves and sleeves that match the opposing teams jersey like white gloves at home and black on the road. Helps you get away with a lot more because you blend in with the defender but players these days worry more about aesthetics I guess. I know we always made sure to match the opponent and it no doubt helped. Anyway back to what Tee brings to the table. He doesn't get end arounds or screens often if ever and his best abilities are probably the 50/50 balls, slants and using his body well to shield defenders. Is that type of wr worth 30 mill a year? Idk man he's a Randy Moss type but isn't a Randy Moss. Especially since we have a guy that does most of those things better already and even blocks much better. That block Chase had for Mixon way downfield to get him in the end zone that one year was beautiful love to see your wr doing that.

I hope we keep Tee I don't like what the cost will be and it no doubt will hamper other positions. Only saving grace is we have a lot guys in the secondary particularly cb a premium high dollar position on rookie deals and good deals with the safeties which in theory should make having 2 wr paid that much more feasible but is it worth it? Like I said I want him to stay hope he does, seems to be well liked in the locker room and a good teammate and we've lost a lot of locker room leaders here in the last 2 years now. Wish he had a different agent things might be easier to agree on something. Problem is the cash over cap teams use to manipulate the cap and the money in escrow rule the NFL has which definitely makes things harder for a smaller market team than say Dallas. Would the Bengals even have enough cash to put in escrow for 3 guys with huge guaranteed money in their contracts if they were to sign both Tee and Chase? Hopefully they are able to and they can work something out for Tee to come back but the 1 thing you can't do is have a scenario play out where he ends up waking and you get nothing in return like what happened with Bates. If they're not gonna give him a new deal because they know they can't or don't want to because they think it's best for the team if they don't, they already know it so get something while you can, don't just let a valuable asset to your team walk out the door with nothing in return other than possibly getting a comp pick next year. Rant over sorry.

(04-02-2024, 09:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals don't need another WR1 though. They just need a WR2.
Higgins if he plays his full self should get ~1000 yards.
If he tries to play safe to avoid injury, he'll be more in the traditional WR2 numbers, I think.

People talk like the WR opposite of Chase has be a 1000+ yard WR, but they could always feature the TE or slot WR more in the offense, which would thereby diminish the need for a stud outside WR opposite Chase.
A good offensive playcaller should be able to tweak the playbook enough to feature the best players available on the field that they have.

I agree with you, but Tee is wanting to be paid like a team's #1 wr... His production last season doesn't really warrant it..

This is the 1st year Tee and Chase will have a TE on the field that can actually threaten defenses vertically on A consistent basis. CJ Uzomah in that SB year had a couple big plays downfield.
The Bengals had no vertical threat at TE last year so defenses could afford bracket Tee and JaMarr.
Tee's numbers were down last year but so was alot
Of guys numbers on offense. Did Tee drop some
Catchable throws. Yeah. Last time I checked
He is human. I expect Tee to bounce back in a big way
This year. JB will be healthy. Geisicki will add a new dimension to the offense that JB hasn't had.
Dan Pitcher will add some new ideas in the playbook..
Simply put when Joe JaMarr and Tee are playing
At a high level this offense is unstoppable
This offense simply isn't as dangerous when Tee
Is not on the field

(04-02-2024, 10:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I agree with you, but Tee is wanting to be paid like a team's #1 wr... His production last season doesn't really warrant it..

Well last year was the outlier for his career.
And he also played about 3/4 of the season, so if you were to trend out across a whole season, he'd have likely been at 900+ yards again.
If he stays healthy this year and plays like normal he can be in that range again.
And while 900+ is low WR1 numbers, a team could easily look at him and say he'd have gotten more targets as a true WR1 without someone like Chase there, so he could be a 1200+ yard WR in the right offense.

I agree with you though, if he has 800 or less yards again, that could diminish his chances of landing a $25+ mill APY contract.

(04-03-2024, 09:33 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Well last year was the outlier for his career.
And he also played about 3/4 of the season, so if you were to trend out across a whole season, he'd have likely been at 900+ yards again.
If he stays healthy this year and plays like normal he can be in that range again.
And while 900+ is low WR1 numbers, a team could easily look at him and say he'd have gotten more targets as a true WR1 without someone like Chase there, so he could be a 1200+ yard WR in the right offense.

I agree with you though, if he has 800 or less yards again, that could diminish his chances of landing a $25+ mill APY contract.

I feel like teams don’t do this much anymore

Teams need to see the production to give deals. Feel like this happens more in the NBA now, where teams give you a deal of what they expect you to become

NFL is pretty old school in you get the deal you deserve


That’s why i don’t get why ppl are calling for 25-30M for Tee

No team is offering that.


He’s gonna be around 18-21M per and for likely only 3 years

(04-02-2024, 04:14 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And I have little doubt had KC had another really good receiver like Tee they’d repeated. Again there is not one formula. KC’s defense was bolstered in free agency no doubt and played much better.

And I have little doubt trading Hill for draft picks help lead to their ability to win SB.

(04-03-2024, 12:14 PM)Housh Wrote: I feel like teams don’t do this much anymore

Teams need to see the production to give deals. Feel like this happens more in the NBA now, where teams give you a deal of what they expect you to become

NFL is pretty old school in you get the deal you deserve


That’s why i don’t get why ppl are calling for 25-30M for Tee

No team is offering that.


He’s gonna be around 18-21M per and for likely only 3 years

Michael Pittman just landed a 3-year, $70 mill deal ($23.33 mill APY) with about the exact same yardage production as Higgins for the past 4 years.

Pittman:
Games = 62
Targets = 487
Receptions = 336
Yards = 3662
TDs = 15

Higgins:
Games = 58
Targets = 403
Receptions = 257
Yards = 3684
TDs = 24

Higgins has been just as good, if not better, than Pittman.
If Pittman can get $23-24 mill APY from a team, Higgins should be realistically in the $25+ mill APY range.

If I'm Higgins' camp, this is the exact person I'm using as a comparison to argue getting $25+ mill from someone who is needing a WR1.

(04-03-2024, 12:14 PM)Housh Wrote: I feel like teams don’t do this much anymore

Teams need to see the production to give deals. Feel like this happens more in the NBA now, where teams give you a deal of what they expect you to become

NFL is pretty old school in you get the deal you deserve


That’s why i don’t get why ppl are calling for 25-30M for Tee

No team is offering that.


He’s gonna be around 18-21M per and for likely only 3 years

 Did you not see Calvin Ridley's contract? He has only had 1 season that's significantly better than Tee (2020), receives a ton more targets, and will be 30 this season. 

For what the Bills got for Diggs, I'm not sure it's worth trading Higgins this year if you think you have a run at the Superbowl.

"The Bills will receive a 2025 second-round pick (via the Minnesota Vikings) in exchange for Diggs, a 2024 sixth-round pick and a 2025 fifth-round pick. The Texans acquired that pick from the Vikings when they traded their 2024 first-round pick to Minnesota last month."

(04-03-2024, 01:36 PM)rupethereitis Wrote: For what the Bills got for Diggs, I'm not sure it's worth trading Higgins this year if you think you have a run at the Superbowl.  

"The Bills will receive a 2025 second-round pick (via the Minnesota Vikings) in exchange for Diggs, a 2024 sixth-round pick and a 2025 fifth-round pick. The Texans acquired that pick from the Vikings when they traded their 2024 first-round pick to Minnesota last month."

It's a bit different circumstances though. 

1.) Steffon is 30 years old and probably only has 1 or 2 good years left vs Tee who is 25 and has 5 to 7 years left at a high level. 

2 ) the Bills need cap space vs the Bengals who have plenty of room.

(04-03-2024, 01:41 PM)J24 Wrote: It's a bit different circumstances though. 

1.) Steffon is 30 years old and probably only has 1 or 2 good years left vs Tee who is 25 and has 5 to 7 years left at a high level. 

2 ) the Bills need cap space vs the Bengals who have plenty of room.

True.   But if the offers are similar to this, keep him and make your run.  Draft Thomas or Bowers and hope the Bills don't trade up.  Higgins has to understand the Bengals hold all the cards.   Hell maybe the Bills trade for Higgins

(04-03-2024, 01:41 PM)J24 Wrote: It's a bit different circumstances though. 

1.) Steffon is 30 years old and probably only has 1 or 2 good years left vs Tee who is 25 and has 5 to 7 years left at a high level. 

2 ) the Bills need cap space vs the Bengals who have plenty of room.

Diggs is also a malcontent who wears out his welcome after a few years. Tee is loved by his teammates and younger.
I heard Buffalo takes a $30 million cap hit this season for Diggs. If that’s true then that obviously does not help their cap this year at all.

Now would Tee and a 3 get Buffalo’s first rounder?

Buffalo needs a proven WR while Bengals could draft a WR and he would just have to be the 2nd option.

(04-03-2024, 01:51 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Diggs is also a malcontent who wears out his welcome after a few years.  Tee is loved by his teammates and younger.  
I heard Buffalo takes a $30 million cap hit this season for Diggs. If that’s true then that obviously does not help their cap this year at all.

Now would Tee and a 3 get Buffalo’s first rounder?

Buffalo needs a proven WR while Bengals could draft a WR and he would just have to be the 2nd option.

You can't give a prime contender on your conference a weapon like that.  Allen getting a target that can highpoint well covers a lot of his ills.  

(04-03-2024, 01:51 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Diggs is also a malcontent who wears out his welcome after a few years.  Tee is loved by his teammates and younger.  
I heard Buffalo takes a $30 million cap hit this season for Diggs. If that’s true then that obviously does not help their cap this year at all.

Now would Tee and a 3 get Buffalo’s first rounder?

Buffalo needs a proven WR while Bengals could draft a WR and he would just have to be the 2nd option.

I don't know; I imagine they're using a post June first Trade exception with diggs. So if a deal were to take place it would have to happen after June 1st.
So it would have to be a 2025 first and 2025 third!

(04-03-2024, 02:03 PM)phil413 Wrote: You can't give a prime contender on your conference a weapon like that.  Allen getting a target that can highpoint well covers a lot of his ills.  

Maybe they shouldn’t but Buffalo just did.
Not sure the Bills are true SB contenders any more.
I think the Chiefs, Texans, Ravens and Bengals are the AFC SB contenders

(04-01-2024, 07:55 PM)sandwedge Wrote: 700-800 yds and 6 or 7 TDs are not #1 Wr numbers.

For damn sure, which is my reason for wanting a trade that could help replace those numbers over paying Tee 21 mil for them.

For all we know, Yoshi could put up those numbers.

(04-03-2024, 02:26 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Maybe they shouldn’t but Buffalo just did.
Not sure the Bills are true SB contenders any more.
I think the Chiefs, Texans, Ravens and Bengals are the AFC SB contenders

I agree and I really like the Bills, too bad. They are in cap hell now and look desperate. They can't beat us and couldn't beat the Chiefs in the
Playoffs last year with all the talent they had and the Chiefs were vulnerable with their WR's dropping balls. The Texans are for real and we all
know the Ravens are tough every year even if I think their Defense will fall off without their great DC from last year.

(04-03-2024, 03:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For damn sure, which is my reason for wanting a trade that could help replace those numbers over paying Tee 21 mil for them.

For all we know, Yoshi could put up those numbers.

Exactly. I think he’s easily capable of these numbers. We know he has the smarts. He’s got the physical tools. He’s got the qb.


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