(04-03-2024, 10:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's interesting that they call it performance-based pay but then have this statement explaining exactly what it is:


That's not based on performance.

Actually, it is. One can perform well, average,  or poorly. 

(04-03-2024, 11:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually, it is. One can perform well, average,  or poorly. 

Well, yes.
But getting a boost in pay implies you performed well.
Just because you played a bunch of snaps does not mean you exceeded at the position.
It just means you were/may have been better than the other guys on your team at that position.

(04-03-2024, 11:41 AM)George Cantstandya Wrote: I've also not been able to find a full list of players that received bonuses.   Maybe one of those NFL secrets. 

What I can see from the list is Brock Purdy was number 24 with a $739,795 bonus.  Purdy's base salary for 2023 was $985,000 but he started all season.  Browning's base salary was $750,000.   But Browning only played in 9 games starting 7.   The link I provided from NFL communications states that $393.8 million was paid out this year in the "performance" based bonuses.  So I think it is likely that Browning did receive a bonus but no idea how much.   NFL provides some formula on the page I linked for how it is sorted out.  I'm too damn tired (plus too stupid) to try to figure it out myself though.  Maybe someone good at math can sort it out.

The formula is pretty simple if you have the data, but aggregating the data would be a huge pain in the ass. Every player on the team is eligible for this program, regardless of years in the league or salary. You'd have to gather every player on the roster, their playtime between offense, defense and special teams, and their salary. I am going to throw a wild guess out and say that Browning probably received an additional payday of roughly $350k. I am getting this number based on reviewing the Arizona Cardinals full list of performance based pay recipients. Jonathan Ledbetter, a linebacker making ~$770k per year who also played 45% of snaps, was given an additional $366k. Browning played 43% of snaps on a salary of $750,000. Not completely apples-to-apples but close enough. 

(04-03-2024, 11:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Well, yes.
But getting a boost in pay implies you performed well.
Just because you played a bunch of snaps does not mean you exceeded at the position.
It just means you were/may have been better than the other guys on your team at that position.

Yep, I know it isn't saying much but Volson has been better than all the rest of the guy's they tried at LG.

He has a ton to improve on, but I don't think he sucks and as Bfine says that is my opinion, but my opinion is also we can do better at LG for sure.

In the meantime I am rooting for him to make the jump and be much more consistent especially in pass protection.

(04-03-2024, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, I know it isn't saying much but Volson has been better than all the rest of the guy's they tried at LG.

He has a ton to improve on, but I don't think he sucks and as Bfine says that is my opinion, but my opinion is also we can do better at LG for sure.

In the meantime I am rooting for him to make the jump and be much more consistent especially in pass protection.

Volson may be improving, at least if you look at the last half of this past season.
But when you're in the middle of the supposed Super Bowl window, should you have handed the starting LG reins over to someone who needed more than 1 season to groom?


I realize the past is the past and we can only hope Volson has it going now, but they probably shouldn't have put him into a starter role so quickly.

(04-03-2024, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Volson may be improving, at least if you look at the last half of this past season.
But when you're in the middle of the supposed Super Bowl window, should you have handed the starting LG reins over to someone who needed more than 1 season to groom?


I realize the past is the past and we can only hope Volson has it going now, but they probably shouldn't have put him into a starter role so quickly.

Probably right, but I don't know who else they would of put there from the options either. I know everybody, including me wants us 
to get proven OL in FA but eventually you have to draft a guy and put him in a starting position. We all know Carman couldn't beat 
out Volson.

(04-03-2024, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Probably right, but I don't know who else they would of put there from the options either. I know everybody, including me wants us 
to get proven OL in FA but eventually you have to draft a guy and put him in a starting position. We all know Carman couldn't beat 
out Volson.

I guess my point would have been to bring in a more proven guy who could cover the starting spot for the past 1-2 years while Volson developed.
Although I would have also probably given the spot to Carman based on what he had shown at LG leading up to 2022.

(04-03-2024, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I guess my point would have been to bring in a more proven guy who could cover the starting spot for the past 1-2 years while Volson developed.
Although I would have also probably given the spot to Carman based on what he had shown at LG leading up to 2022.

It is a good thought. I was for whoever was the best player, the coaches thought it was Volson so...

(04-01-2024, 07:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Volson does stay healthy.

Isn't that the way it always works? The worst guys always stay healthy.

Bobby Hart comes to mind...

(04-02-2024, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You also ignore the part about my post that was all true, I highly doubt you are rooting for him.

I saw PFF grades mid to late season last year where he was very good, same with Karras.

He had a stretch of 4 games (1st Pitt to Minny) where he played really well. Beginning of the year he was dreadfully bad. Then he went to his usual below average. Then he had the 4 game stretch when Browning came in. Then he reverted back to below average for the last 3 games of the year.

He's been consistently about 10ish grade points below average both years and he's given up exactly 5 sacks and 38 pressures both years, which is really weird. You could say he's "improved" over his first year, but at this rate, it's going to take him about 3 more years to be middle of the pack. 

(04-03-2024, 10:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It's interesting that they call it performance-based pay but then have this statement explaining exactly what it is:


That's not based on performance.

Performance just means, to perform. Just the act, not necessarily the quality of the act.

(04-04-2024, 01:28 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Performance just means, to perform. Just the act, not necessarily the quality of the act.

True, but a performance-based raise is typically because of GOOD performance.
That's implied.

This performance-based compensation increase is like someone giving me a raise because I showed up to more meetings than others.
Doesn't necessarily mean I performed my job well.

(04-04-2024, 12:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Isn't that the way it always works? The worst guys always stay healthy.

Bobby Hart comes to mind...

Seems like it. But there are worse OL on the roster than Cordell Volson.

Need to have an upgrade before putting him on the bench is all I am saying. Carman clearly isn't an upgrade according to the coaches.

(04-04-2024, 01:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He had a stretch of 4 games (1st Pitt to Minny) where he played really well. Beginning of the year he was dreadfully bad. Then he went to his usual below average. Then he had the 4 game stretch when Browning came in. Then he reverted back to below average for the last 3 games of the year.

He's been consistently about 10ish grade points below average both years and he's given up exactly 5 sacks and 38 pressures both years, which is really weird. You could say he's "improved" over his first year, but at this rate, it's going to take him about 3 more years to be middle of the pack. 

Yes, he is really inconsistent. That stretch was the one I saw where he was playing great, but then back to inconsistent.

Hope he is really working on this part of his game this Offseason, I bet he is. One thing you can bet on Volson, he works his ass off and I
appreciate that about him.

(04-04-2024, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Seems like it. But there are worse OL on the roster than Cordell Volson.

Need to have an upgrade before putting him on the bench is all I am saying. Carman clearly isn't an upgrade according to the coaches.


Yes, he is really inconsistent. That stretch was the one I saw where he was playing great, but then back to inconsistent.

Hope he is really working on this part of his game this Offseason, I bet he is. One thing you can bet on Volson, he works his ass off and I
appreciate that about him.

YUP

And that's the thing that makes you nuts about him. Couple games he'll look like he's really "getting it" improving, stepping up. Then the next couple games he looks like a  PS call up because of injuries. 

Fingers crossed he puts it all together this season. 

(04-04-2024, 08:50 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: YUP

And that's the thing that makes you nuts about him. Couple games he'll look like he's really "getting it" improving, stepping up. Then the next couple games he looks like a  PS call up because of injuries. 

Fingers crossed he puts it all together this season. 

Yes, he's been a frustrating at times work in progress, but there's no quit in him, and he's as durable as they come.  Don't underestimate the jump from smaller division school to the NFL, as far as trench play goes. That's not an excuse, just an explanation for the what I expected learning curve. Seems like every time he gives up a negative play, he comes back with a few crushing blocks. Hoping that the third season he proves to be a model of consistency.

1. Works hard
2. No quit
3. Durable

I wonder if he has a "great personality" too. 

(04-02-2024, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I saw PFF grades mid to late season last year where he was very good, same with Karras.

He went into the final week with a 44 pass blocking grade.

Don't care about improving run blocking grades if he can't pass block for Joe Burrow in a pass heavy offense.

(04-05-2024, 11:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He went into the final week with a 44 pass blocking grade.

Don't care about improving run blocking grades if he can't pass block for Joe Burrow in a pass heavy offense.

He did actually have a nice stretch of pass protection late in the season

Cordell Volson has surrendered only two pressures over the past four weeks and has earned an 83.1 pass-blocking grade

It ranks fifth among guards over that span ? pic.twitter.com/ebUW7aQmtd

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) December 21, 2023

(04-05-2024, 12:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He did actually have a nice stretch of pass protection late in the season

Cordell Volson has surrendered only two pressures over the past four weeks and has earned an 83.1 pass-blocking grade

It ranks fifth among guards over that span ? pic.twitter.com/ebUW7aQmtd

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) December 21, 2023

Didn't we all have this same conversation about Volson after 2022? Like almost the exact same? Lol

(04-05-2024, 12:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Didn't we all have this same conversation about Volson after 2022? Like almost the exact same? Lol

Oh don’t get me wrong, I’d love to replace Volson with an upgrade. I just remembered what Nate was talking about.