(04-05-2024, 12:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If our goal is to roll over 10 million, we have 6 million to add FA's.

Why would our goal be to not spend to the cap? Let alone not manipulating the cap to be able to spend even more than allowed, but not even reaching the normal limit? Why intentionally handicap yourself if you think you have a chance to win a SB and are paying a WR the franchise tag?

(04-08-2024, 10:53 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Why would our goal be to not spend to the cap? Let alone not manipulating the cap to be able to spend even more than allowed, but not even reaching the normal limit? Why intentionally handicap yourself if you think you have a chance to win a SB and are paying a WR the franchise tag?

I don't disagree on spending the cap. My comment was based on how Bengals FO has approached the cap in the past. 

I would hope if the Bengals saw a starter at a reasonable price, they would sign them.

I would like to see a vet corner. Gilmore, Howard and Nelson are still available. 

(04-08-2024, 10:53 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Why would our goal be to not spend to the cap? Let alone not manipulating the cap to be able to spend even more than allowed, but not even reaching the normal limit? Why intentionally handicap yourself if you think you have a chance to win a SB and are paying a WR the franchise tag?

Yes, that is my problem here, but I kind of understand. After the Draft we will know more of how many holes we have.

Plus a Tee trade could still happen during the Draft for all we know.

(04-08-2024, 11:45 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree on spending the cap. My comment was based on how Bengals FO has approached the cap in the past. 

I would hope if the Bengals saw a starter at a reasonable price, they would sign them.

I would like to see a vet corner. Gilmore, Howard and Nelson are still available. 

Don't expect us to bring in any of these guy's till after the Draft, but yes those are some of the Corners we should have on our mind and 
Connor Williams, Andrus Peat and Dalton Risner for the OL as well after the Draft.

(04-05-2024, 01:28 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Once they unload Higgins for an early 2nd they will have $45,000,000..... And can unload enough draft capital to the Vikings for JJ & extend him. Right now, the 2025 Bengals have a projected $90,000,000 of cap space.

They can trade multiple 1sts for Jeferson after getting a top 1/3rd 2nd rounder for Higgins. Because of the depth of this draft hits the Bengals at positions of need perfectly they can still grab OT, DT, TE, & CBs with similar grades in the 2nd-4th rounds EASILY.

There is NO other logical reason for the Bengals to leave THAT much cap space sitting there at this stage. None.

Chisel that in stone. Tattoo it on your chest. Put it in permanent ink. Hit SEND on the email. Plan your wedding (or, congrats, your impending divorce) around it...... It's happening.

Don't believe me? Don't think the Bengals would do so be cause it's too splashy or they can't afford it? It was reported by local media before start of last season THE BENGALS TRIED TO TRADE FOR AARON DONALD last off-season but it fell through. They would have taken on THAT contract and parted w draft picks to do so. They WANT big dog, impact guys and are efforting hard to get them. This ain't Mike Brown's Bengals any more. The FO wants to make some moves to WIN NOW.

I will take back every negative thing I’ve said about the bengals off-season if they pulled this off. This would give them 3 all pro’s. At important locations: Qb, WR, WR. Doesn’t matter that it’s all on offense. That talent could win a Super Bowl, with the other pieces we have. I think financially we could do it, and if it cost us: Tee, a RT that wouldn’t start this year (pick 18), and another pick next year, even a 1st, so be it. We need to make hold moves. Go for it, go for a SB or 2.

(04-08-2024, 04:21 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I will take back every negative thing I’ve said about the bengals off-season if they pulled this off. This would give them 3 all pro’s. At important locations: Qb, WR, WR. Doesn’t matter that it’s all on offense. That talent could win a Super Bowl, with the other pieces we have. I think financially we could do it, and if it cost us: Tee, a RT that wouldn’t start this year (pick 18), and another pick next year, even a 1st, so be it. We need to make hold moves. Go for it, go for a SB or 2.

If only winning a Super Bowl was predicated on having a really good qb and 2 top wrs. Other positions be damned.

You should be taking back most of your negative comments anyway as they have mostly had a good free agency up this point. But you are entitled to your opinions.


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(04-08-2024, 04:28 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: If only winning a Super Bowl was predicated on having a really good qb and 2 top wrs.  Other positions be damned.

You should be taking back most of your negative comments anyway as they have mostly had a good free agency up this point.  But you are entitled to your opinions.


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So true, highly doubt we will be winning Super Bowls in just getting JJ and having Burrow and Chase.

We need an O-line, a running game and a Defense too...

Just look at the Chiefs as a recent example.

With the whole proposed Bengals trading multiple firsts for JJ, the thing that keeps me sort of hopeful something like this COULD happen is, this is a copycat league. Zac saw how McVay does things in LA. How they gave up picks for splash, win-now signings to excite the fans and win a SB. It didn't cripple them, they had one down year and were right back in the playoffs last year having reloaded through the draft. What's to say we couldn't do that here?

I'd gladly part with this year's first and next year's (pick 32 baby!) for a five-year extended JJ. Trade Tee for an early 2nd and whatever else they can get, and continue on with your draft board.

(04-09-2024, 12:18 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: With the whole proposed Bengals trading multiple firsts for JJ, the thing that keeps me sort of hopeful something like this COULD happen is, this is a copycat league. Zac saw how McVay does things in LA. How they gave up picks for splash, win-now signings to excite the fans and win a SB. It didn't cripple them, they had one down year and were right back in the playoffs last year having reloaded through the draft. What's to say we couldn't do that here?

I'd gladly part with this year's first and next year's (pick 32 baby!) for a five-year extended JJ. Trade Tee for an early 2nd and whatever else they can get, and continue on with your draft board.

It amazes me how much Tee is undervalued by fans. JJ is a great receiver, but a team with future cap issues needs drafted players to enable them to keep a strong roster. If you look at the Chiefs, they traded Hill for multiple draft picks, got rid of his salary and used those picks to build a great defense. The proposal to go after JJ is just the opposite.

The Rams needed a QB and a LT but had a great defense. 

The Bengals do not have a great defense, not close. I love offense, but I don't feel we can reach the Super Bowl with a bad defense, no matter how good the offense. The recipe to beat us would be to keep our offense off the field by controlling T.O.P. against our weak defense.

(04-09-2024, 12:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It amazes me how much Tee is undervalued by fans. JJ is a great receiver, but a team with future cap issues needs drafted players to enable them to keep a strong roster. If you look at the Chiefs, they traded Hill for multiple draft picks, got rid of his salary and used those picks to build a great defense. The proposal to go after JJ is just the opposite.

The Rams needed a QB and a LT but had a great defense. 

The Bengals do not have a great defense, not close. I love offense, but I don't feel we can reach the Super Bowl with a bad defense, no matter how good the offense. The recipe to beat us would be to keep our offense off the field by controlling T.O.P. against our weak defense.

You're leaving Ramsey, Miller, Wagner, and OBJ outta the Rams equation.

(04-09-2024, 12:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It amazes me how much Tee is undervalued by fans. JJ is a great receiver, but a team with future cap issues needs drafted players to enable them to keep a strong roster. If you look at the Chiefs, they traded Hill for multiple draft picks, got rid of his salary and used those picks to build a great defense. The proposal to go after JJ is just the opposite.

The Rams needed a QB and a LT but had a great defense. 

The Bengals do not have a great defense, not close. I love offense, but I don't feel we can reach the Super Bowl with a bad defense, no matter how good the offense. The recipe to beat us would be to keep our offense off the field by controlling T.O.P. against our weak defense.

I'm not undervaluing Tee at all. He's a really good WR. But JJ is an all pro. If you have the chance to add that and not cripple your finances, you jump on that, in my opinion. First round picks aren't the end-all when it comes to roster building, especially if you hit on your 2-4th rounders, which we do more often than not. We have the base core of this defense, aside from a true NT, already on the team. There are no defenders left in FA or this draft that, in my opinion, would take our defense to another level in year 1, like JJ would our offense. Imagine having two AP wideouts you can literally line up anywhere. Now imagine opposing defenses having to adjust to that. Toss in Geseki feasting with the attention those two would command. Or ZM / CB busting off big runs due to consistently seeing 2-deep safeties.

The Bengals have cap space, they continually roll over unused for future extensions AND the cap is going up every year. With the way WR salaries are going up (even mediocre ones are getting paid), paying two WR $60+ million between the two is on the horizon anyways, if they're "worth it". Jamarr and JJ are, and will be, for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't be worried about our offense spending much time on the sidelines, this offense would be unstoppable (with protection).

(04-09-2024, 01:53 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I'm not undervaluing Tee at all. He's a really good WR. But JJ is an all pro. If you have the chance to add that and not cripple your finances, you jump on that, in my opinion. First round picks aren't the end-all when it comes to roster building, especially if you hit on your 2-4th rounders, which we do more often than not. We have the base core of this defense, aside from a true NT, already on the team. There are no defenders left in FA or this draft that, in my opinion, would take our defense to another level in year 1, like JJ would our offense. Imagine having two AP wideouts you can literally line up anywhere. Now imagine opposing defenses having to adjust to that. Toss in Geseki feasting with the attention those two would command. Or ZM / CB busting off big runs due to consistently seeing 2-deep safeties.

The Bengals have cap space, they continually roll over unused for future extensions AND the cap is going up every year. With the way WR salaries are going up (even mediocre ones are getting paid), paying two WR $60+ million between the two is on the horizon anyways, if they're "worth it". Jamarr and JJ are, and will be, for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't be worried about our offense spending much time on the sidelines, this offense would be unstoppable (with protection).

Not going to lie, you make a good argument for JJ. But I take Byron Murphy in this Draft who is a NT over trading our first round picks.

Another poster nailed it for me, if we want JJ, just wait for FA and pay him after we pay Chase rather than trading our firsts.

(04-09-2024, 05:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Another poster nailed it for me, if we want JJ, just wait for FA and pay him after we pay Chase rather than trading our firsts.

I feel pretty confident that Justin Jefferson is never going to hit FA before 2028 or so.

He will be traded, extended, or tagged and traded (then extended).

No team in the NFL is going to let a guy who can get them 2+ 1st round picks walk for a 3rd round comp pick 2 years later.

(04-09-2024, 05:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I feel pretty confident that Justin Jefferson is never going to hit FA before 2028 or so.

He will be traded, extended, or tagged and traded (then extended).

No team in the NFL is going to let a guy who can get them 2+ 1st round picks walk for a 3rd round comp pick 2 years later.

Okay, you thought about this more than I did clearly as I never thought it was an option. Yah never know, I do know all of Burrow, Chase 
and Jefferson would be down with a reunion. But it doesn't matter if we cannot keep the team solid all around them. I want our 1st Round 
pick this year, I like too many players that should be available at 18. Amarius Mims and Byron Murphy look really special to name a couple.

(04-09-2024, 05:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Okay, you thought about this more than I did clearly as I never thought it was an option. Yah never know, I do know all of Burrow, Chase 
and Jefferson would be down with a reunion. But it doesn't matter if we cannot keep the team solid all around them. I want our 1st Round 
pick this year, I like too many players that should be available at 18. Amarius Mims and Byron Murphy look really special to name a couple.

Oh, I have always been on board with the fact that you shouldn't have a highly paid QB and two highly paid WRs on the same team because it'll make it way too hard to field a complete team. I was very vocal about wanting them to trade Tee last offseason before the draft while people were still trying to convince themselves that they were all going to take discounts to stick together.

I'd honestly consider throwing that thought process out because Jefferson is just like two tiers above Tee and it almost makes it tempting, but I honestly haven't thought about it much though because it's impractical and improbable. 

I just know that truly elite players (like top 3 player at their position) in their prime just pretty much never hit FA. Not even a Jefferson or WR specific thing, just a universal thing in the NFL. Guys who are that elite and still young have way too much value to ever let walk in FA for a comp pick so it's not done, they get retained or traded.

(04-08-2024, 04:28 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: If only winning a Super Bowl was predicated on having a really good qb and 2 top wrs. Other positions be damned.

You should be taking back most of your negative comments anyway as they have mostly had a good free agency up this point. But you are entitled to your opinions.


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My opinion isn’t that it takes 1 eite QB and 2 elite WR. My point is it takes as many elite players as you can get, to win a superbowl. If we can turn Tee + draft capital in to JJ, I’d 100% do it.

Also, I don’t believe they had a good offseason. At all. Not even close. The worst one of the Zach Taylor era. I have high standards for a team that is capable of winning a SB. I think we managed our massive 70M in cap space terribly. I think we got worse in some key positions and are relying on an often injured RT to play 18-21 games for us. Now we did get better at S and TE. But those positions to me, are less important than DT, CB, RT.

And we didn’t add any players to help our pass rush, because last year that was awful. Same for the rush defense.


I think my main point is, we could have done a lot better with that cap space. I don’t look at things in a vacuum. I look at how we did vs my expectations or possible outcomes.

(04-08-2024, 07:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So true, highly doubt we will be winning Super Bowls in just getting JJ and having Burrow and Chase.

We need an O-line, a running game and a Defense too...

Just look at the Chiefs as a recent example.

Do we have all those things now? Nope. Are we a better team with JJ or Tee plus the drafted players we don’t give up through draft picks? Impossible to know, but JJ is one of the best players in the league. Now we could argue, if we’re going to trade for a blockbuster player, let’s go after OT or DL. Sure, but that wasn’t the scenario presented and also JJ at least makes some plausible sense, as he turned down his last contract offer, they have no QB, and the obvious connection to JB and Chase.

(04-10-2024, 09:18 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: My opinion isn’t that it takes 1 eite QB and 2 elite WR. My point is it takes as many elite players as you can get, to win a superbowl. If we can turn Tee + draft capital in to JJ, I’d 100% do it.

Also, I don’t believe they had a good offseason. At all. Not even close. The worst one of the Zach Taylor era. I have high standards for a team that is capable of winning a SB. I think we managed our massive 70M in cap space terribly. I think we got worse in some key positions and are relying on an often injured RT to play 18-21 games for us. Now we did get better at S and TE. But those positions to me, are less important than DT, CB, RT.

And we didn’t add any players to help our pass rush, because last year that was awful. Same for the rush defense.


I think my main point is, we could have done a lot better with that cap space. I don’t look at things in a vacuum. I look at how we did vs my expectations or possible outcomes.

(04-09-2024, 06:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Oh, I have always been on board with the fact that you shouldn't have a highly paid QB and two highly paid WRs on the same team because it'll make it way too hard to field a complete team. I was very vocal about wanting them to trade Tee last offseason before the draft while people were still trying to convince themselves that they were all going to take discounts to stick together.

I'd honestly consider throwing that thought process out because Jefferson is just like two tiers above Tee and it almost makes it tempting, but I honestly haven't thought about it much though because it's impractical and improbable. 

I just know that truly elite players (like top 3 player at their position) in their prime just pretty much never hit FA. Not even a Jefferson or WR specific thing, just a universal thing in the NFL. Guys who are that elite and still young have way too much value to ever let walk in FA for a comp pick so it's not done, they get retained or traded.

All understandable, actually makes me think it is possible when I didn't think so.

We are in a better spot than a lot of teams and we have the connection with JJ more than anyone else.

(04-10-2024, 09:21 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: Do we have all those things now? Nope. Are we a better team with JJ or Tee plus the drafted players we don’t give up through draft picks? Impossible to know, but JJ is one of the best players in the league. Now we could argue, if we’re going to trade for a blockbuster player, let’s go after OT or DL. Sure, but that wasn’t the scenario presented and also JJ at least makes some plausible sense, as he turned down his last contract offer, they have no QB, and the obvious connection to JB and Chase.

The thing is we need those first round picks to build up those things. For example, I think both Amarius Mims and Byron Murphy are 
extremely special players in the trenches that can only be had in the first round this year. We would be throwing away possible future 
All Pros for JJ, but hey, I understand as JJ is currently the best WR in the NFL.

JJ is proven, no matter the first round pick they are not. So I understand being really excited about a possible trade here and TLL makes
me now think it is much more possible. PDub had a good spill, but I wasn't taking it too seriously until now.

(04-10-2024, 01:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All understandable, actually makes me think it is possible when I didn't think so.

We are in a better spot than a lot of teams and we have the connection with JJ more than anyone else.


The thing is we need those first round picks to build up those things. For example, I think both Amarius Mims and Byron Murphy are 
extremely special players in the trenches that can only be had in the first round this year. We would be throwing away possible future 
All Pros for JJ, but hey, I understand as JJ is currently the best WR in the NFL.

JJ is proven, no matter the first round pick they are not. So I understand being really excited about a possible trade here and TLL makes
me now think it is much more possible. PDub had a good spill, but I wasn't taking it too seriously until now.

I really don’t think it’s going to happen. But I would 100% be all for it. If an all pro can be had, you take him. We’re not starting a rookie RT right now anyways.


Now what we do about DT is another issue. We’re facing Henry/Lamaar and Chubb 4 out of 17 games. That could legit be 4 losses, no matter how good our offense is.


But ultimately we need to hit on late picks, which we haven’t been doing recently. And our team is filled with too many “good” players, not enough “pro bowlers”. Tee, Stone, Wilson, Pratt, Hill, Rankins, Hubbard, Bell, Taylor Britt, Orlando Brown, Karas, Hilton. All good players. But none are pro bowl level. But how do you upgrade them? A rookie is going to come in and be so good that they take the veteran off the field? Highly highly doubtful. We’re kind of in this upper/mid level of talent where we’re good, but not dominant.

For true studs We have chase, burrow, Hendrickson. That’s it. We need more to win a SB, in my opinion.

(04-10-2024, 02:17 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I really don’t think it’s going to happen. But I would 100% be all for it. If an all pro can be had, you take him. We’re not starting a rookie RT right now anyways.


Now what we do about DT is another issue. We’re facing Henry/Lamaar and Chubb 4 out of 17 games. That could legit be 4 losses, no matter how good our offense is.


But ultimately we need to hit on late picks, which we haven’t been doing recently. And our team is filled with too many “good” players, not enough “pro bowlers”. Tee, Stone, Wilson, Pratt, Hill, Rankins, Hubbard, Bell, Taylor Britt, Orlando Brown, Karas, Hilton. All good players. But none are pro bowl level. But how do you upgrade them? A rookie is going to come in and be so good that they take the veteran off the field? Highly highly doubtful. We’re kind of in this upper/mid level of talent where we’re good, but not dominant.

For true studs We have chase, burrow, Hendrickson. That’s it. We need more to win a SB, in my opinion.

Mims can play all over the line, he could take Volson's spot in an instant as a rookie. Murphy would instantly be starting on running downs
and can play on passing downs. Murphy can be elite at both. But yeah, I don't think are going to trade for JJ, but I guess it is a possibility 
unlike I thought before TLL said what he said about elite players never touching Free Agency.

Our team is sitting in a better spot than most with our Cap and our Tee situation if we can use him as a bit of collateral in a trade along 
with our 1st round picks the next couple years in exchange for an elite player in JJ.