It's that point of the off season where most fans have their "big boards" for who they want the Bengals to draft in the first round. For most, it is filled with OTs, a hand full of DTs and then a few WRs or CBs, based on who has been taken up to that point.
How about your Big Board of players you'd HATE to see the Bengals draft?
I'll share mine:
Players I'd like to avoid in the first round entirely:
Laiatu Latu
Tyler Guyton
Cooper DeJean
Nate Wiggins
Only draft if you're willing to trade down:
Jared Verse
Jackson Powers Johnson
Graham Barton
Zach Frazier
Latu, to me, just has too many red flags. I'm already pretty low on the idea of drafting a defensive end, but Latu has the added injury risk since he nearly retired due to a neck injury in 2021. He is an older player, so his production may be due to that rather than superior athleticism or talent. He seems like a refined pass rusher with a lower ceiling. We already have a first round DE that we need to cut into the rotation with two heavy lifters in Hendrickson and Hubbard. We don't need another.
Guyton just screams project to me. He is a rare athlete, but as a player he is simply bad. Some reports I've read have said he flashes brilliance, but those flashes are literally 10% of his game. That's way too high risk for me and I doubt he'd be ready to step in at RT if Brown is injured.
DeJean is a supreme athlete with outstanding production. But he is a tweener. Some think he could be a safety. Others think he could stick at CB. And I just simply do not have the tolerance for that. We already have Dax Hill sitting on the fence between CB and S, and he's already been effectively replaced, at least for 2024. We don't need another tweener. With DeJean, there's a chance that his tweener status is purely (and unfairly) due to his race, as there are literally zero white cornerbacks in the NFL right now. But even still, I'd prefer the Bengals not be on the forefront of that experiment, only to have him struggle all season because he really belongs at safety. And then we have an even worse log jam at safety.
Wiggins is a tiny, tiny man. He weighed in as 6'1" 173 lbs at the combine. Considering his weight was his primary concern in the off season, I assume he likely played at an even lower weight (as you would expect he'd try to gain weight before the combine to assuage those concerns). He's an elite athlete with fantastic speed but, Jesus Christ, that weight is insanely low. Emmanuel Forbes Jr was a CB I was interested in last year's draft who was similarly slight, at 6'1", 166 lbs. He struggled tremendously in his first season of the NFL, with bigger WRs bullying him all over the field. He scored a 50.9 grade on PFF. My fear is that Nate Wiggins would struggle similarly. We already have a smaller CB in DJ Turner (5'11" 178 lbs), and experienced similar struggles. I really do not want to do that again.
Verse seems like a great prospect, but we are pretty clogged at DE at the moment. Pass rushers are great, but if you don't have the snaps for them, they can't help your team. I am slightly higher on Verse than I am Latu simply because of athletic ceiling, but I'd still prefer we avoid him unless we trade down and pick up another premium pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. They are both older prospects (23+ years old), so their production is not as valuable as, say, a 21 year old doing the same thing. At least that's what the experts say.
As for Frazier, Barton and JPJ, I wouldn't mind drafting them in the first round, but not at 18. Centers and guards just aren't really worth such a premium pick, especially when these guys are not considered transcendent guard/center prospects. I've heard reports that the NFL is slightly lower than the media on these center/guard prospects and they will likely be early 2nd rounders rather than 1st rounders. It only takes one team that really needs a center to draft one of them in the first, but I'd prefer that team not be us.
I think you nailed it CJD with all the players I am weary of, didn't know about the neck injury with Latu, thanks he is now off
my board. I like Verse if we do go End, he was always making plays when I watched the Seminoles last year. Would be interested
in what our Bengals/Noles fans have to say about Verse. I have heard them rave about Trey Benson and Johnny Wilson a couple
players I want in the mid rounds, but have yet to hear them speak on Verse.
The guy that you list for me is the one to avoid at all costs is definitely Guyton. He doesn't impress me at all in the film, bad
technique, just blessed with superior size and athleticism without the stuff you need between the ears from what I am seeing.
Opposite of Amarius Mims who seems smart with all the intangibles. Honestly the only thing I see with Mims that makes me
say nah is the lack of snaps, but to me that is not a problem anymore with the Trent Brown signing and watching the guy with
his elite balance, strength, smarts and insane athleticism and work ethic on top of it. Mims looks special. Wanting Mims, Murphy
or Newton the most for us at this point at 18.
(04-10-2024, 12:44 PM)CJD Wrote: It's that point of the off season where most fans have their "big boards" for who they want the Bengals to draft in the first round. For most, it is filled with OTs, a hand full of DTs and then a few WRs or CBs, based on who has been taken up to that point.
How about your Big Board of players you'd HATE to see the Bengals draft?
I'll share mine:
Players I'd like to avoid in the first round entirely:
Laiatu Latu
Tyler Guyton
Cooper DeJean
Nate Wiggins
Only draft if you're willing to trade down:
Jared Verse
Jackson Powers Johnson
Graham Barton
Zach Frazier
Latu, to me, just has too many red flags. I'm already pretty low on the idea of drafting a defensive end, but Latu has the added injury risk since he nearly retired due to a neck injury in 2021. He is an older player, so his production may be due to that rather than superior athleticism or talent. He seems like a refined pass rusher with a lower ceiling. We already have a first round DE that we need to cut into the rotation with two heavy lifters in Hendrickson and Hubbard. We don't need another.
Guyton just screams project to me. He is a rare athlete, but as a player he is simply bad. Some reports I've read have said he flashes brilliance, but those flashes are literally 10% of his game. That's way too high risk for me and I doubt he'd be ready to step in at RT if Brown is injured.
DeJean is a supreme athlete with outstanding production. But he is a tweener. Some think he could be a safety. Others think he could stick at CB. And I just simply do not have the tolerance for that. We already have Dax Hill sitting on the fence between CB and S, and he's already been effectively replaced, at least for 2024. We don't need another tweener. With DeJean, there's a chance that his tweener status is purely (and unfairly) due to his race, as there are literally zero white cornerbacks in the NFL right now. But even still, I'd prefer the Bengals not be on the forefront of that experiment, only to have him struggle all season because he really belongs at safety. And then we have an even worse log jam at safety.
Wiggins is a tiny, tiny man. He weighed in as 6'1" 173 lbs at the combine. Considering his weight was his primary concern in the off season, I assume he likely played at an even lower weight (as you would expect he'd try to gain weight before the combine to assuage those concerns). He's an elite athlete with fantastic speed but, Jesus Christ, that weight is insanely low. Emmanuel Forbes Jr was a CB I was interested in last year's draft who was similarly slight, at 6'1", 166 lbs. He struggled tremendously in his first season of the NFL, with bigger WRs bullying him all over the field. He scored a 50.9 grade on PFF. My fear is that Nate Wiggins would struggle similarly. We already have a smaller CB in DJ Turner (5'11" 178 lbs), and experienced similar struggles. I really do not want to do that again.
Verse seems like a great prospect, but we are pretty clogged at DE at the moment. Pass rushers are great, but if you don't have the snaps for them, they can't help your team. I am slightly higher on Verse than I am Latu simply because of athletic ceiling, but I'd still prefer we avoid him unless we trade down and pick up another premium pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. They are both older prospects (23+ years old), so their production is not as valuable as, say, a 21 year old doing the same thing. At least that's what the experts say.
As for Frazier, Barton and JPJ, I wouldn't mind drafting them in the first round, but not at 18. Centers and guards just aren't really worth such a premium pick, especially when these guys are not considered transcendent guard/center prospects. I've heard reports that the NFL is slightly lower than the media on these center/guard prospects and they will likely be early 2nd rounders rather than 1st rounders. It only takes one team that really needs a center to draft one of them in the first, but I'd prefer that team not be us.
Love the write up, the one I would push back against is Latu. He was medically retired which mean that college felt it was a liability for him to play at their school. Which is why he transferred and had no issues. It sounds worse than it is. If the medical staff clears him he’s arguably the best pass rusher in the class, the guy just wins. I think if they draft him I understand why, I wouldn’t hate it, but he wouldn’t be my first choice.
(04-10-2024, 01:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think you nailed it CJD with all the players I am weary of, didn't know about the neck injury with Latu, thanks he is now off
my board. I like Verse if we do go End, he was always making plays when I watched the Seminoles last year. Would be interested
in what our Bengals/Noles fans have to say about Verse. I have heard them rave about Trey Benson and Johnny Wilson a couple
players I want in the mid rounds, but have yet to hear them speak on Verse.
The guy that you list for me is the one to avoid at all costs is definitely Guyton. He doesn't impress me at all in the film, bad
technique, just blessed with superior size and athleticism without the stuff you need between the ears from what I am seeing.
Opposite of Amarius Mims who seems smart with all the intangibles. Honestly the only thing I see with Mims that makes me
say nah is the lack of snaps, but to me that is not a problem anymore with the Trent Brown signing and watching the guy with
his elite balance, strength, smarts and insane athleticism and work ethic on top of it. Mims looks special. Wanting Mims, Murphy
or Newton the most for us at this point at 18.
Mims has been my preferred choice at 18 for the last few weeks. With Brown, we no longer need a day 1 starter, so Mim's experience does not scare me that much. Plus, all reports indicate that when he is on the field, he plays well beyond his experience.
In my opinion, the only reason we have a shot at drafting him is because of that lack of experience. With his size, quality of play, athleticism (9.57 RAS) and youth (turning 22 in October), if he had played a full season, people would grade him above everyone but maybe Alt. And the injury he suffered was not a wear and tear injury or anything, it was just a freak accident. So it shouldn't lend to any concerns about injuries.
I say take the player with the highest upside and that, to me, is Mims.
(04-10-2024, 03:08 PM)Okeana Wrote: Love the write up, the one I would push back against is Latu. He was medically retired which mean that college felt it was a liability for him to play at their school. Which is why he transferred and had no issues. It sounds worse than it is. If the medical staff clears him he’s arguably the best pass rusher in the class, the guy just wins. I think if they draft him I understand why, I wouldn’t hate it, but he wouldn’t be my first choice.
Okay, that's fair. The term "medically retired" just scares me haha. No one wants to draft damaged goods.
I still wouldn't be thrilled with the selection considering the group we have at DE, including last year's 1st round pick, but if they selected him, I am willing to give him and the coaches a chance to show what he brings to the table.
(04-10-2024, 12:44 PM)CJD Wrote: It's that point of the off season where most fans have their "big boards" for who they want the Bengals to draft in the first round. For most, it is filled with OTs, a hand full of DTs and then a few WRs or CBs, based on who has been taken up to that point.
How about your Big Board of players you'd HATE to see the Bengals draft?
I'll share mine:
Players I'd like to avoid in the first round entirely:
Laiatu Latu
Tyler Guyton
Cooper DeJean
Nate Wiggins
Only draft if you're willing to trade down:
Jared Verse
Jackson Powers Johnson
Graham Barton
Zach Frazier
Latu, to me, just has too many red flags. I'm already pretty low on the idea of drafting a defensive end, but Latu has the added injury risk since he nearly retired due to a neck injury in 2021. He is an older player, so his production may be due to that rather than superior athleticism or talent. He seems like a refined pass rusher with a lower ceiling. We already have a first round DE that we need to cut into the rotation with two heavy lifters in Hendrickson and Hubbard. We don't need another.
Guyton just screams project to me. He is a rare athlete, but as a player he is simply bad. Some reports I've read have said he flashes brilliance, but those flashes are literally 10% of his game. That's way too high risk for me and I doubt he'd be ready to step in at RT if Brown is injured.
DeJean is a supreme athlete with outstanding production. But he is a tweener. Some think he could be a safety. Others think he could stick at CB. And I just simply do not have the tolerance for that. We already have Dax Hill sitting on the fence between CB and S, and he's already been effectively replaced, at least for 2024. We don't need another tweener. With DeJean, there's a chance that his tweener status is purely (and unfairly) due to his race, as there are literally zero white cornerbacks in the NFL right now. But even still, I'd prefer the Bengals not be on the forefront of that experiment, only to have him struggle all season because he really belongs at safety. And then we have an even worse log jam at safety.
Wiggins is a tiny, tiny man. He weighed in as 6'1" 173 lbs at the combine. Considering his weight was his primary concern in the off season, I assume he likely played at an even lower weight (as you would expect he'd try to gain weight before the combine to assuage those concerns). He's an elite athlete with fantastic speed but, Jesus Christ, that weight is insanely low. Emmanuel Forbes Jr was a CB I was interested in last year's draft who was similarly slight, at 6'1", 166 lbs. He struggled tremendously in his first season of the NFL, with bigger WRs bullying him all over the field. He scored a 50.9 grade on PFF. My fear is that Nate Wiggins would struggle similarly. We already have a smaller CB in DJ Turner (5'11" 178 lbs), and experienced similar struggles. I really do not want to do that again.
Verse seems like a great prospect, but we are pretty clogged at DE at the moment. Pass rushers are great, but if you don't have the snaps for them, they can't help your team. I am slightly higher on Verse than I am Latu simply because of athletic ceiling, but I'd still prefer we avoid him unless we trade down and pick up another premium pick in the 2nd or 3rd round. They are both older prospects (23+ years old), so their production is not as valuable as, say, a 21 year old doing the same thing. At least that's what the experts say.
As for Frazier, Barton and JPJ, I wouldn't mind drafting them in the first round, but not at 18. Centers and guards just aren't really worth such a premium pick, especially when these guys are not considered transcendent guard/center prospects. I've heard reports that the NFL is slightly lower than the media on these center/guard prospects and they will likely be early 2nd rounders rather than 1st rounders. It only takes one team that really needs a center to draft one of them in the first, but I'd prefer that team not be us.
Going to push back on Guyton a little. Is he a project? Absolutely. But they guy literally has been playing OT for all of 3 years. He was a DL in HS and if it wasn't for TCU coaches saying "no, we're moving you to OL" he wouldn't have even had a D1 offer, literally had zero D1 offers other than TCU. 3.5 years later he's going to be a first round pick. Think about that for a second.
He's the type of guy that you look up in 6 years and he's been an all pro for 4 straight years and signing a $150mm contract. With the 2 tackles we have, he has a year to develop. I'd take Guyton at 18 in a heart beat.
(04-10-2024, 05:04 PM)CJD Wrote: Okay, that's fair. The term "medically retired" just scares me haha. No one wants to draft damaged goods.
I still wouldn't be thrilled with the selection considering the group we have at DE, including last year's 1st round pick, but if they selected him, I am willing to give him and the coaches a chance to show what he brings to the table.
I think what's more promising is that you aren't hearing anything in the scouting circles that it's a red flag and he hasn't had any reoccurring issues after he recovered. its also not a degenerative medical issue which is a huge positive for me. I do know that neck fusion surgeries scare me for the long term health of the person, when he's 50 years old he will probably regret it, but in the short term he will be able to perform at a high level. Two athletes that come to mind with similar injuries and surgeries are Kurt Angle in wrestling and Yoel Romero the UFC fighter, just incase he is drafted and you're interested in these kinds of things lol
As far as his fit, I think he would be the long term replacement for Trey, right now he can split reps to give these guys some rest, Trey is a dog, but I really wish that he had someone that gave him less snaps so that he could be prime for the playoff run
(04-10-2024, 05:47 PM)TCUBengal34 Wrote: Going to push back on Guyton a little. Is he a project? Absolutely. But they guy literally has been playing OT for all of 3 years. He was a DL in HS and if it wasn't for TCU coaches saying "no, we're moving you to OL" he wouldn't have even had a D1 offer, literally had zero D1 offers other than TCU. 3.5 years later he's going to be a first round pick. Think about that for a second.
He's the type of guy that you look up in 6 years and he's been an all pro for 4 straight years and signing a $150mm contract. With the 2 tackles we have, he has a year to develop. I'd take Guyton at 18 in a heart beat.
I won't go into a long-winded diatribe about all the issues I see with the guy and you obviously love his backstory and the player so I won't try to convince you on merit that he's a bad pick, but I will say two things. First, This class has some real blue-chip players, maybe 17 guys, so I can't see under any circumstance how the best player available at 18 is Tyler Guyton, It would be soul-crushing levels of disappointment and I've lived through some very bad picks. Speaking of bad picks, my 2nd point, Tyler Guyton looks like he could be genetically related to Cedric Ogbuehi
(04-10-2024, 06:09 PM)Okeana Wrote: I think what's more promising is that you aren't hearing anything in the scouting circles that it's a red flag and he hasn't had any reoccurring issues after he recovered. its also not a degenerative medical issue which is a huge positive for me. I do know that neck fusion surgeries scare me for the long term health of the person, when he's 50 years old he will probably regret it, but in the short term he will be able to perform at a high level. Two athletes that come to mind with similar injuries and surgeries are Kurt Angle in wrestling and Yoel Romero the UFC fighter, just incase he is drafted and you're interested in these kinds of things lol
As far as his fit, I think he would be the long term replacement for Trey, right now he can split reps to give these guys some rest, Trey is a dog, but I really wish that he had someone that gave him less snaps so that he could be prime for the playoff run
Angle had a crippling opioid addiction and could only really get clean after he retired.
(04-10-2024, 05:47 PM)TCUBengal34 Wrote: Going to push back on Guyton a little. Is he a project? Absolutely. But they guy literally has been playing OT for all of 3 years. He was a DL in HS and if it wasn't for TCU coaches saying "no, we're moving you to OL" he wouldn't have even had a D1 offer, literally had zero D1 offers other than TCU. 3.5 years later he's going to be a first round pick. Think about that for a second.
He's the type of guy that you look up in 6 years and he's been an all pro for 4 straight years and signing a $150mm contract. With the 2 tackles we have, he has a year to develop. I'd take Guyton at 18 in a heart beat.
These are the top 20 OT prospects as ranked and rated by everyone's beloved PFF service.
Does anything about that list stand out to you? I mean, other than the fact that his on field performance grade was the worst of any Tackle prospect in the PFF top 20? Are they simply basing everything off of potential, because his on the field performance says he's not a 1st round guy, in fact he even looks like a bit of an anomaly on the PFF big board as the #30 prospect.
With that said, I'm still hoping that Fuaga makes it to #18.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(04-10-2024, 06:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Angle had a crippling opioid addiction and could only really get clean after he retired.
yeah thats just because the guy was a wrestler into his 40s, he had broke his neck multiple times and kept wrestling while it was broke. But he did have neck fusion surgery which causes him constant pain now.
Does anything about that list stand out to you? I mean, other than the fact that his on field performance grade was the worst of any Tackle prospect in the PFF top 20? Are they simply basing everything off of potential, because his on the field performance says he's not a 1st round guy, in fact he even looks like a bit of an anomaly on the PFF big board as the #30 prospect.
With that said, I'm still hoping that Fuaga makes it to #18.
I 100% agree, I think Patrick Paul is maybe the worst possible OT to draft in the top three rounds, but Guyton is really close lol
(04-10-2024, 06:55 PM)Okeana Wrote: I 100% agree, I think Patrick Paul is maybe the worst possible OT to draft in the top three rounds, but Guyton is really close lol
Yes, if the Bengals miss out on one of the premium Tackles, I hope that they hold their water until around the 4th round and take any one of Goncalves, Jones, or Foster. Unless of course most of the prospects in between evaporate faster than expected, then perhaps they squeeze the trigger at #80 or #97.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(04-10-2024, 07:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, if the Bengals miss out on one of the premium Tackles, I hope that they hold their water until around the 4th round and take any one of Goncalves, Jones, or Foster. Unless of course most of the prospects in between evaporate faster than expected, then perhaps they squeeze the trigger at #80 or #97.
im a Kiran Amegadjie guy, He reminds me of a small school Tyler Smith. His Mother asked him to go to Yale to get an education instead of playing at a big time school or he would be talked about more frequently. He is 6'5 and has the arm length of Mims. his production was great in college. I'm lucky enough to be friends with some guys who get access to all the tape so I was able to watch some of his games, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes late 2nd or early 3rd. Here is a bit of tape
(04-10-2024, 07:11 PM)Okeana Wrote: im a Kiran Amegadjie guy, He reminds me of a small school Tyler Smith. His Mother asked him to go to Yale to get an education instead of playing at a big time school or he would be talked about more frequently. He is 6'5 and has the arm length of Mims. his production was great in college. I'm lucky enough to be friends with some guys who get access to all the tape so I was able to watch some of his games, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes late 2nd or early 3rd. Here is a bit of tape
I can definitely respect that opinion. The reason that I chose the 3 later prospects that I did is because they all strike me as gritty, tough AFCN type of guys. Goncalves hasn't allowed a sack since 2021.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
(04-10-2024, 07:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can definitely respect that opinion. The reason that I chose the 3 later prospects that I did is because they all strike me as gritty, tough AFCN type of guys. Goncalves hasn't allowed a sack since 2021.
There are only like 5 projected first rounders this year that I would want to take - Bowers, Thomas, the two DT's, and Jackson Powers Johnson. Latham looks to develop but was a very poor road-grader for his size. Kind of reminds me of Ogbuehi.
Does anything about that list stand out to you? I mean, other than the fact that his on field performance grade was the worst of any Tackle prospect in the PFF top 20? Are they simply basing everything off of potential, because his on the field performance says he's not a 1st round guy, in fact he even looks like a bit of an anomaly on the PFF big board as the #30 prospect.
With that said, I'm still hoping that Fuaga makes it to #18.
I don't see JC Latham on the list but PFF has him at 81.9 (I still don't see Latham getting to pick #18 but I could be wrong)
Nate has me liking Mims more than I did in the past and I had tended to like Mims over Guyton which PFF seems to support.
(04-10-2024, 08:09 PM)depthchart Wrote: I don't see JC Latham on the list but PFF has him at 81.9 (I still don't see Latham getting to pick #18 but I could be wrong)
Nate has me liking Mims more than I did in the past and I had tended to like Mims over Guyton which PFF seems to support.
Thanks for the heads up brother, I have corrected that list!
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
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