(04-19-2024, 11:38 AM)Stewy Wrote: As what we do here has absolutely no influence on what the Bengals do, all I can say is......Thanks for the laugh.

I'm not sure I understand why the laugh?

Do you feel like the Bengals have done enough to keep Burrow upright?
Or do you think OL taken on Day 2 or even Day 3 will suffice to provide enough depth?

(04-19-2024, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: For those voting for something other than OT, I don't want to hear anyone complaining down the road the team didn't invest more into the OL to protect Joe Burrow if Brown goes down and/or the OL underperforms this season.

Fans shouldn't forfeit their right to complain about the OT down the road because they didn't have confidence in the the particular OL options available at the time of pick. Did those fans against selecting Billy Prince or Cedric Ogbuehi lose their right to complain about the poor OL play because they didn't like those particular picks? Now if the blue-chip OL options are available, then I would hope the Bengals make those selections, like the bfine selection today on Sirius. But going OL for the sake of OL is a bad, Billy Price-strategy.

(04-19-2024, 11:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: For those voting for something other than OT, I don't want to hear anyone complaining down the road the team didn't invest more into the OL to protect Joe Burrow if Brown goes down and/or the OL underperforms this season.

The P in BPA stands for Player not Position. 

(04-19-2024, 06:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not sure I understand why the laugh?

Do you feel like the Bengals have done enough to keep Burrow upright?
Or do you think OL taken on Day 2 or even Day 3 will suffice to provide enough depth?

As I mentioned in my mock draft thread, there are a few Tackles that would do well on day 2 or even early day 3. It's just a matter of weather they are even on the team's radar. I'd rather leave the 1st round pick to something in their wheelhouse, rather than gambling on a player at a position that they aren't qualified to evaluate correctly.

(04-19-2024, 06:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not sure I understand why the laugh?

Do you feel like the Bengals have done enough to keep Burrow upright?
Or do you think OL taken on Day 2 or even Day 3 will suffice to provide enough depth?

The laugh was for you're threat for people to remember - blah blah blah - when the Bengals do this or that.  You allude that we have some influence over the situation, thus my amusement at your condescending finger waggling.  So thanks for the laugh.

(04-19-2024, 07:57 PM)Stewy Wrote: The laugh was for you're threat for people to remember - blah blah blah - when the Bengals do this or that.  You allude that we have some influence over the situation, thus my amusement at your condescending finger waggling.  So thanks for the laugh.

I did no such thing.

I just said I don't want to hear it.
That's not threatening in any way.

How was what I said condescending?


All I was getting at was the Bengals have basically no OT depth behind the Browns right now. And the one they just added has had durability problems, is on a 1-year deal, and is on the wrong side of 30.
And outside the 1st round, I'm not really confident in any rookie to step in and play well.
So for people who want to do as much as possible to protect Burrow for years to come, adding a really good OT at 18 is a damn good attempt to make that happen.
Especially this year or next.

Have I been wrong about players before?
Absolutely.
Have you and others as well?
Absolutely.

(04-17-2024, 08:59 AM)Synric Wrote: The closer to Draft Day we get the more skeptical I am an Offensive Tackle will be available at #18. Everyone in the NFL knows the Bengals really want a RT at 18 so they are a prime candidate to get jumped.

I disagree, those that normally are in the know more than us, some of the analysts and others that do this for a living have had various positions for us at 18 especially OT, DT and WR... My opinion the normal reach for QBS,, at least 5 and the continued rise in picking WRS early, will leave around 8 to 9 picks left of other positions and with a good 5 to 6 solid tackles, one to two will be sitting there at #18 if we choose and i think with the thin DT in this draft, someone is more likely to jump up and take a DT

(04-19-2024, 05:48 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It has been two drafts in a row the Bengals have used the 1st and 2nd round picks on defense.   The 3 previous drafts before that, the 1st and 2nd picks were used on offense.   They didnt use the 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense the previous two drafts because they signed guys like Karras, Cappa and Orlando Brown Jr. in free agency while on defense they let Ogunjobi, Bell, Bates and Apple leave.  That meant they had to spend some early picks on defense to help balance the talent loss.  Would you rather had the Bengals take the opposite approach and spent the money to keep Ogunjobi, Bell, Bates and Apple while using the 1st and 2nd round draft picks on the offensive line? because that is the other approach that could have been taken.

So, in '20, our 1st and 2nd rounders were Burrow and Higgins, but we drafted Logan Wilson in the third and spent four picks on D, versus three on offense.  Though this is kinda moot because all of those rookie deals are no longer in effect.

In '21, our first two picks were Chase and Carman, but the 3rd was spent on Ossai.  The picks were balanced, overall, with 5 on Offense, 4 on Defense, and 1 on a specialist.

In '22 our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D, and 5 of our 6 picks were also on defense.  

Last year, our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D again, with 4 picks overall going to D and 3 to the Offense, with one specialist.

So, going from the time frame you're talking about, when talking about our premium picks (Day 1 and Day 2 picks), the D has gotten 8 to the Offense's 4, doubling that number, and overall, the defense has gotten 17 draft picks to 12 for the offense.

Going by a more practical timeframe by using the players still on rookie deals, it's even more lopsided, with the defense getting 7 premium picks compared to 2 for the offense and the D getting 13 picks to the Offense's 8.

They've let starters leave on offense, as well, like Reiff, Uzomah, Hurst, Collins, Mixon, Boyd, etc , etc.  Looking at this year, they signed two starters on Defense (Rankins and Stone) to multi-year deals, while the two of three starters they signed on offense (Brown and Gesicki) are on one year deals 

Looking ahead, of the projected starters on offense, Higgins, Irwin, Gesicki, Brown, and Karras are all in contract years.  That's 5 of 11 starters on Offense. Only Hill is in a contract year on D among projected starters.  And yet people still want to spend our first and more premium draft capital beyond that on the defense.

(04-19-2024, 10:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, in '20, our 1st and 2nd rounders were Burrow and Higgins, but we drafted Logan Wilson in the third and spent four picks on D, versus three on offense.  Though this is kinda moot because all of those rookie deals are no longer in effect.

In '21, our first two picks were Chase and Carman, but the 3rd was spent on Ossai.  The picks were balanced, overall, with 5 on Offense, 4 on Defense, and 1 on a specialist.

In '22 our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D, and 5 of our 6 picks were also on defense.  

Last year, our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D again, with 4 picks overall going to D and 3 to the Offense, with one specialist.

So, going from the time frame you're talking about, when talking about our premium picks (Day 1 and Day 2 picks), the D has gotten 8 to the Offense's 4, doubling that number, and overall, the defense has gotten 17 draft picks to 12 for the offense.

Going by a more practical timeframe by using the players still on rookie deals, it's even more lopsided, with the defense getting 7 premium picks compared to 2 for the offense and the D getting 13 picks to the Offense's 8.

They've let starters leave on offense, as well, like Reiff, Uzomah, Hurst, Collins, Mixon, Boyd, etc , etc.  Looking at this year, they signed two starters on Defense (Rankins and Stone) to multi-year deals, while the two starters they signed on offense (Brown and Gesicki) are on one year deals 

Looking ahead, of the projected starters on offense, Higgins, Irwin, Gesicki, Brown, and Karras are all in contract years.  That's 5 of 11 starters on Offense. Only Hill is in a contract year on D among projected starters.  And yet people still want to spend our first and more premium draft capital beyond that on the defense.

You left out the most important part. The fact our defense gave up the second most yards in the league last year. And that was with our guys staying relatively healthy.

(04-20-2024, 12:13 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You left out the most important part. The fact our defense gave up the second most yards in the league last year. And that was with our guys staying relatively healthy.

Which our DC blamed primarily on communication issues between inexperienced starters.  How does adding more inexperienced players to the defense help with what he says is the primary issue?

Beyond that, again, next year we'll have 5 UFA starters on offense. Do we really want to have to find immediate quality starters on offense at 3-4 positions in a single draft class?

(04-20-2024, 12:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: Which our DC blamed primarily on communication issues between inexperienced starters.  How does adding more inexperienced players to the defense help with what he says is the primary issue?

Beyond that, again, next year we'll have 5 UFA starters on offense.  Do we really want to have to find immediate quality starters on offense at 3-4 positions in a single draft class?

Brown, Carman, and D'ante are free agents after this year. Who is RT next year?

Hill, Tufele, Sample, and I'll throw in Ossai, but he can't play DT, are free agents after this year. That's 40% of the normal 10 DL on the 53. Should we prepare for that?
Karras and Hill are free agents after this year. Who is the C next year?
Gesicki and Hudson are free agents after this year. Are we going to need more than just Sample at TE in 2025?

I think we need to be looking for answers early in the draft in all of those areas.

(04-20-2024, 02:58 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Brown, Carman, and D'ante are free agents after this year. Who is RT next year?

Hill, Tufele, Sample, and I'll throw in Ossai, but he can't play DT, are free agents after this year. That's 40% of the normal 10 DL on the 53. Should we prepare for that?
Karras and Hill are free agents after this year. Who is the C next year?
Gesicki and Hudson are free agents after this year. Are we going to need more than just Sample at TE in 2025?

I think we need to be looking for answers early in the draft in all of those areas.

With all those upcoming needs you have catalogued, scattered widely on defense and offense, I can see the logic in just going for BPA with the 18th pick. If the Bengals have to solve the offensive line next year with proven, free agents, as they have done these past couple of years, then so be it. The OL or bust advocates could end up with a bust if the Bengals limit themselves to the OL. And the Bengals needs for future years are many, not just OL. They can use later picks to try and address those needs, and lower their risk for #18 with BPA.

(04-19-2024, 10:28 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Murphy will be gone
Rams will use some their vast draft capital to move up and replace Aaron Donald.

If they think Murphy is the DT to replace Donald. As I mentioned in another thread, the Rams may well see Newton as Donald's replacement, as he is the more similar player. They see their guy, see the Bengals wanting Murphy, and can sit pat and get the DT they want. Heck, they might even be able to trade back and get Newton and a pick.

Just because the Bengals want someone doesn't mean the rest of the world is scheming to screw them. 


Though I admit during the draft it sometimes feels that way.




When it's not on the Bengals pick and a commercial break...

(04-19-2024, 10:13 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, in '20, our 1st and 2nd rounders were Burrow and Higgins, but we drafted Logan Wilson in the third and spent four picks on D, versus three on offense.  Though this is kinda moot because all of those rookie deals are no longer in effect.

In '21, our first two picks were Chase and Carman, but the 3rd was spent on Ossai.  The picks were balanced, overall, with 5 on Offense, 4 on Defense, and 1 on a specialist.

In '22 our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D, and 5 of our 6 picks were also on defense.  

Last year, our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd were all spent on D again, with 4 picks overall going to D and 3 to the Offense, with one specialist.

So, going from the time frame you're talking about, when talking about our premium picks (Day 1 and Day 2 picks), the D has gotten 8 to the Offense's 4, doubling that number, and overall, the defense has gotten 17 draft picks to 12 for the offense.

Going by a more practical timeframe by using the players still on rookie deals, it's even more lopsided, with the defense getting 7 premium picks compared to 2 for the offense and the D getting 13 picks to the Offense's 8.

They've let starters leave on offense, as well, like Reiff, Uzomah, Hurst, Collins, Mixon, Boyd, etc , etc.  Looking at this year, they signed two starters on Defense (Rankins and Stone) to multi-year deals, while the two of three starters they signed on offense (Brown and Gesicki) are on one year deals 

Looking ahead, of the projected starters on offense, Higgins, Irwin, Gesicki, Brown, and Karras are all in contract years.  That's 5 of 11 starters on Offense. Only Hill is in a contract year on D among projected starters.  And yet people still want to spend our first and more premium draft capital beyond that on the defense.

You are trying to muddle the conversation here.  By your own words you thought it was crazy the Bengals spent their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on defense the last two drafts and may use a pick again this year on defense.  I pointed out the three previous drafts before that they spent the their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense.  2019 was Jonah Williams then Drew Sample, 2020 was Joe Burrow then Tee Higgins, 2021 was Ja'Marr Chase then Jackson Carman.   I guess by your own logic you thought it was crazy for the Bengals to use their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense 3 years in a row? 

(04-20-2024, 06:20 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: You are trying to muddle the conversation here.  By your own words you thought it was crazy the Bengals spent their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on defense the last two drafts and may use a pick again this year on defense.  I pointed out the three previous drafts before that they spent the their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense.  2019 was Jonah Williams then Drew Sample, 2020 was Joe Burrow then Tee Higgins, 2021 was Ja'Marr Chase then Jackson Carman.   I guess by your own logic you thought it was crazy for the Bengals to use their 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense 3 years in a row? 

Except those aren't my words 

My actual words were that we haven't spent a Day 1 or Day 2 on offense the last two drafts.  That's the first, second, and third round picks.  You either misread what I said or intentionally created a strawman argument.  Either way, I am simply supporting my original point.