(04-28-2024, 11:40 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I never said Bates was a scrub, just like I never said I hated Lou, but you infer such dumb projections.

My entire point in the Bates comparison was that Dax isnt a scrub either, but of course you were unable to grasp that concept.  Thus it was imbecilic to prove an already off base point with the Tee analogy.  This coaching staff has failed Dax, at least for the first 2 years of his contract.  It's ok to like Lou and criticize him as well.  Im not going to fanboy him and pretend he is the great DC of all time and never makes mistakes.  

Did you ever think maybe its not the coaching staff, maybe the player just isnt good enough at that position?  Lou had no problem turning Jessie Bates into an All Pro.   Why is it the coaching staff's fault Hill isnt a better safety?  Maybe Hill just isnt cut out to play that position in the NFL. 

(04-29-2024, 12:03 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Did you ever think maybe its not the coaching staff, maybe the player just isnt good enough at that position?  Lou had no problem turning Jessie Bates into an All Pro.   Why is it the coaching staff's fault Hill isnt a better safety?  Maybe Hill just isnt cut out to play that position in the NFL. 

Bates came in as a rookie knowing how to play the position with 1000 snaps, Lou didnt teach him how to be a FS, how do you NOT know this? 

Dax played 3 different positions his rookie year, and last season, his first at FS, he had better stats than Bates in his 4th season.  Had Dax not dropped 3 interceptions everyone would be loving him. But even if had those extra picks he still struggled with the concepts.  They used a 1st round pick on a guy and moved him everywhere but his natural position.  And they might be dong it again this year at boundary.  Defend the coaching all you want, I rarely agree with your takes anyway, the coaches will likely admit that they have not done a good enough job with Dax.

(04-27-2024, 09:01 PM)Housh Wrote: He had 100 tackles the first year he started safety


That’s cutting it to me.

To me he played well but not well enough to keep him at safety

I'd argue he'd still be at least decent at safety if just kept there.
Dax Hill had 110 tackles last year, 72 of which were solo tackles.
And he had 11 PDs.
Geno Stone only had 68 tackles, 9 PDs.
People got enamored with Stone's INTs.

Some are just so damn quick on these draft picks man. They just give a guy one season to impress and if not, they want him replaced.

But it is what it is at this point. I just hope Hill can stick somewhere and this isn't another case of a 1st rounder being here for 4 years then peacing out.

(04-29-2024, 10:30 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd argue he'd still be at least decent at safety if just kept there.
Dax Hill had 110 tackles last year, 72 of which were solo tackles.
And he had 11 PDs.
Geno Stone only had 68 tackles, 9 PDs.
People got enamored with Stone's INTs.

Some are just so damn quick on these draft picks man. They just give a guy one season to impress and if not, they want him replaced.

But it is what it is at this point. I just hope Hill can stick somewhere and this isn't another case of a 1st rounder being here for 4 years then peacing out.

Yup

Instant gratification 

(04-27-2024, 09:01 PM)Housh Wrote: He had 100 tackles the first year he started safety


That’s cutting it to me.

To me he played well but not well enough to keep him at safety

Well if it's good enough for you I guess it should be good enough for the coaches and managers of a professional football team.



He was AWFUL at safety last year.  So bad in fact, they are making him change positions.  Bad angles, missed assignments, etc.   You don't judge a safety on the number of tackles alone.  

(04-27-2024, 09:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Dax, himself, is not a bust, but the coaching staff has totally screwed up a talented player and seemingly burnt a 1st Rd draft pick.  This is amateur hour with this staff.

Oh, so it's the coaching staff and not the player.  Got it.


Wait, was it the same coaching staff that coached two safeties to big free agent contracts outside the organization?   Those amateur hour coaches that played in a super bowl and AFC championship game back to back years?    Those are the people who screwed up a talented player?

Maybe Dax just sucks as an NFL safety.   

I also read about people loving Dax because he's so versatile. The problem with this "versatility" is that you have to take one of the players off the field who is better than your versatile guy. He's not a better boundary corner than your starting corners. He's not a better slot corner than Hilton. He's not a better safety than the two people you just signed.

That's not what you want from a 1st round draft pick.

“It wasn’t hard at all. It was like ‘I’m playing corner’ Dax Hill speaks Monday about accepting his new role with Bengals pic.twitter.com/5dYXNCHSVk

— Mike Petraglia (@Trags) April 29, 2024

(04-29-2024, 11:14 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: Oh, so it's the coaching staff and not the player.  Got it.


Wait, was it the same coaching staff that coached two safeties to big free agent contracts outside the organization?   Those amateur hour coaches that played in a super bowl and AFC championship game back to back years?    Those are the people who screwed up a talented player?

Maybe Dax just sucks as an NFL safety.   

It can absolutely be argued that the coaching staff has wasted the talents of a 1st round pick, by not having a defined role planned out for him when he hit the field. All Hill has done is whatever the coaching staff has asked of him thus far. FWIW, as long as they pick ONE job for him to do, rather than bouncing around, I fully expect him to catch up quickly in terms of production.

(04-29-2024, 12:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It can absolutely be argued that the coaching staff has wasted the talents of a 1st round pick, by not having a defined role planned out for him when he hit the field. All Hill has done is whatever the coaching staff has asked of him thus far. FWIW, as long as they pick ONE job for him to do, rather than bouncing around, I fully expect him to catch up quickly in terms of production.

Reminds me a bit of Michael Johnson, where he had to keep switching between getting his body (weight) ready to play OLB vs DE for the first couple years of his career. Wasn't until like his third or fourth year I want to say that he spent the entire offseason and season as a full-time DE. Didn't have to worry about being switched back to OLB (and thus worry about coverage) so he was able to bulk up accordingly.

Bad enough it happened to him and he was a 3rd round pick.

(04-29-2024, 12:03 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Did you ever think maybe its not the coaching staff, maybe the player just isnt good enough at that position?  Lou had no problem turning Jessie Bates into an All Pro.   Why is it the coaching staff's fault Hill isnt a better safety?  Maybe Hill just isnt cut out to play that position in the NFL. 

Bates started out with the previous regime, and his rookie year he started every game at FS, putting up 111 tackles, 3 INTs, and 7 PDs.
I don't think this was necessarily a case of Anarumo turning someone into a great player.
He was good from the jump.

The difference between Bates and Hill is Bates already had a ton of proven experience at the position and was available in the 2nd round because of the program he came from.
Hill was coming from CB and SS in college but had the athletic traits to fit FS well.

It's definitely possible that despite Hill's elite athletic profile, he's much better suited to CB or SS.
I applaud the team for trying him at FS, but it sucks he didn't hit it hard enough and quick enough such that the team already has chosen to pivot him after 2 years of grooming him at FS.

(04-29-2024, 01:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Bates started out with the previous regime, and his rookie year he started every game at FS, putting up 111 tackles, 3 INTs, and 7 PDs.
I don't think this was necessarily a case of Anarumo turning someone into a great player.
He was good from the jump.

The difference between Bates and Hill is Bates already had a ton of proven experience at the position and was available in the 2nd round because of the program he came from.
Hill was coming from CB and SS in college but had the athletic traits to fit FS well.

It's definitely possible that despite Hill's elite athletic profile, he's much better suited to CB or SS.
I applaud the team for trying him at FS, but it sucks he didn't hit it hard enough and quick enough such that the team already has chosen to pivot him after 2 years of grooming him at FS.

Safety is a really cerebral position. It may be that the team thinks that he is thinking too much and it's keeping him from playing up to his potential. There are so many sight adjustments you are making at safety and it's not for everyone. I wonder if they think at CB, especially outside corner, they can let his athleticism really shine.

(04-29-2024, 12:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It can absolutely be argued that the coaching staff has wasted the talents of a 1st round pick, by not having a defined role planned out for him when he hit the field. All Hill has done is whatever the coaching staff has asked of him thus far. FWIW, as long as they pick ONE job for him to do, rather than bouncing around, I fully expect him to catch up quickly in terms of production.

I think they probably did have a plan when he first came on board - learn behind Bates and take over the next year at FS.
They just didn't think he was playing well enough and/or not grasping the nuances of the position well enough to keep him there.
Now they are pivoting.

(04-29-2024, 01:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think they probably did have a plan when he first came on board - learn behind Bates and take over the next year at FS.
They just didn't think he was playing well enough and/or not grasping the nuances of the position well enough to keep him there.
Now they are pivoting.

Or Lou is a student of the Cris Carter school...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cris-carter-told-nfl-rookies-to-get-a-fall-guy-nfl-says-inappropriate/

(04-27-2024, 08:09 PM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Did we really use our first round pick in 2022 on a slot cb?

CTB is a lock one side and as badly as Turner fell off a cliff the second half of the season he started well.

You’d think with the experience of Stone and Vonn coming in the communication is going to be a lot better this season.

The kid is obviously talented but has been so badly managed.

where ever he can contribute put him there

We drafted him for versatility we are still getting that versatility it was bottom of the first round selection hardly a bust Obueghi Ross were busts less than ideal but not even close to a bust

Sign Xavien Howard please. Our DB Room is sorry without a solid vet

(04-29-2024, 02:16 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: We drafted him for versatility we are still getting that versatility it was bottom of the first round selection hardly a bust Obueghi Ross were busts less than ideal but not even close to a bust

Dax is a bust ur first round pick should have given u something even if it’s any starting role but his role and position still unknown cuz he’s a bust. We should’ve trade dax to move up for Newton although I love Jenkins

So many thoughts to share on all this....

First, Dax didn't start his rookie year since we had Bates. So he's only really played one year, right?

Second, for his first full year our d-line wasn't as good as it used to be and we had young corners growing into their own. OH, and Nick Scott. All I'm saying is he didn't have a lot of supporting factors for success.

Third, his stats last year really weren't all that terrible for a guys first year in the NFL. People are going overboard here. Pasting stats below for your viewing pleasure:

2023—Started all 17 games at S ... Recorded 110 tackles (72 solos), with 1.5 sacks and six TFLs ... Also had 11 PDs and two INTs ... Ranked third on team in tackles, and became first Bengals defensive back with 100-plus tackles since safeties Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates III in 2020

Last that I'll list, it's absurd to me that folks think pick #31, nearly as close to a second rounder as you'll see, should perform like a top 10 pick out the gate. Ya'll are a bit much with expectations sometimes. Don't worry, I am too! We're passionate fans, there's no hate being spilled, just an attempt at a sanity check

OK I lied, last one for real.... how many times have we wanted a coaching staff to make changes to something that's not working, only for them not to? Now we have a coaching staff that will eat their own crow and quickly make necessary changes, and we're upset because we've apparently ruined his career? Eek.

(04-29-2024, 11:14 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: Oh, so it's the coaching staff and not the player.  Got it.


Wait, was it the same coaching staff that coached two safeties to big free agent contracts outside the organization?   Those amateur hour coaches that played in a super bowl and AFC championship game back to back years?    Those are the people who screwed up a talented player?

Maybe Dax just sucks as an NFL safety.   

They moved him to boundary corner his first year, then FS last year, and now back to boundary? He didnt play these positions in college, a few snaps at single high and zero at boundary.  His stats prove that he is a quality football player, but FS obviously isnt it.  This is a coaching fiasco forcing a player into different positions, it reveals a poor plan or preparation.  

This teenage whining because someone criticizes Lou is comical.  Yes the same coaches that played in the SB and AFC title games, also the same ones that ranked at the very bottom in almost every defensive category last season, or were you NOT watching?  You seem as if you just started watching during the SB run like so many on social media.

Let me fill you in on how it works for decades long fans that know a shit ton about the program. It's ok to criticize the staff now and then and still be big fans of them over all.  Hope this helps.