Shifty stirring the pot….

(05-14-2024, 06:00 PM)CJD Wrote: I think he's worth Devonta Smith money, yes.  He's a better receiver than Smith. 

Riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhttt....

(05-15-2024, 09:57 PM)Whatever Wrote: Riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhttt....

I had no idea there were so many Tee haters on these message boards. Last offseason, people were saying we had the best WR trio in the NFL and one of the best duos.

Now, suddenly, Tee isn't even worth extending 

Y'all are wishy washy af.

(05-15-2024, 10:03 PM)CJD Wrote: I had no idea there were so many Tee haters on these message boards. Last offseason, people were saying we had the best WR trio in the NFL and one of the best duos.

Now, suddenly, Tee isn't even worth extending 

Y'all are wishy washy af.

Yes... After a season where basically nobody outside of Trey Hendrickson and maybe CTB excelled, Tee Higgins is suddenly not all that. I mean it's cool and ok to be against paying up to re-sign Higgins, but why'd they let Bates walk if they weren't going to. Bates' salary seems pretty reasonable if you're only gonna pony up for the QB and top receiver. They also have quite a few guys at premium positions on rookie deals.

(05-15-2024, 10:03 PM)CJD Wrote: I had no idea there were so many Tee haters on these message boards. Last offseason, people were saying we had the best WR trio in the NFL and one of the best duos.

Now, suddenly, Tee isn't even worth extending 

Y'all are wishy washy af.

There aren't any Tee Higgins haters here. Between 0 and 100, there are 99 other numbers. Most fall somewhere in that area. The claim that he's better than Smith is debatable. They're certainly on par, along with a few other guys. Tee certainly could have put some distance between himself and them if he would have been able to stay on the field more, but he hasn't and you can't just discount that. 

It's not hating Tee, it's being realistic about trying to do an extension with David Mulugheta and also realizing that they are probably asking more guaranteed than the Bengals actually have ready cash to put into escrow for.

(05-16-2024, 01:22 AM)Joelist Wrote: It's not hating Tee, it's being realistic about trying to do an extension with David Mulugheta and also realizing that they are probably asking more guaranteed than the Bengals actually have ready cash to put into escrow for.

If this is the case(which I don't think it is) then sell the team. Also if that's the case then why not trade him?

(05-15-2024, 11:39 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There aren't any Tee Higgins haters here. Between 0 and 100, there are 99 other numbers. Most fall somewhere in that area. The claim that he's better than Smith is debatable. They're certainly on par, along with a few other guys. Tee certainly could have put some distance between himself and them if he would have been able to stay on the field more, but he hasn't and you can't just discount that. 

The person I quoted is definitely a Tee hater. He said "riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhttt" when I said Higgins is better than Devonta Smith, which should not be a controversial opinion. Especially from a Bengals fan's perspective.

Through the first 3 seasons of each player's career, they've had nearly identical statistics.
50 Games, 240 receptions, 352 targets, 3178 yards, 19 touchdowns, 147 first downs for Smith.

46 Games, 215 receptions, 327 targets, 3028 yards, 19 touchdowns, 151 first downs for Higgins.

They've both been #2 receivers behind an alpha receivers for the majority of their careers (outside of their rookie years), and both have been playing with elite QBs for the majority of their careers (minus Joe Burrow's injuries and Jalen Hurts' adjustment period to the NFL).

I personally prefer Higgins' style of receiver and think he works perfectly well with Burrow. He makes outstanding grabs in triple coverage that I don't think Smith is capable of making. I would not trade Higgins for Smith, because I think Higgins is the better receiver.

Higgins has had a few minor injuries, but nothing that has taken him out for long stretched of time. Just aches and bruises where he misses 1 to 2 games here and there. If that scares you off, then just never sign anyone long term, because this could happen to any player.

Through his first three seasons, he missed a total of 4 games and I think 1 or 2 of those were at the end of the season when we had already clinched the playoffs, but I don't remember for sure.

Bottomline is if you think Smith is worth 25M AAV, you should think Higgins is worth 25M AAV.

Now, if he said, "Yes, but Smith was overpaid" then I'd at least understand where he was coming from. But he sarcastically and condescendingly implied I'm a moron for even thinking Higgins is better than Smith.

The elephant in the room is Higgins 2023 season. He had a few more injuries than usual, missing 5 games, and Burrow's injury led to his worst season. But even then, he only missed 5 games. I don't think his injury concerns are on the scale of lost years. It's just lost games, which our offense is designed to handle.

I would also understand if Whatever said, "If I'm spending 25M AAV on a receiver, I expect him to never miss a game ever."
It would be a silly statement, but at least he would be saying something of value and would purvey his thoughts on why he would not want to extend Higgins.

But, again, all I got was a series of condescending nonsense responses.

You, rfaulk34, may not be a Tee hater, but that doesn't mean there aren't any here.

(05-16-2024, 01:30 AM)J24 Wrote: If this is the case(which I don't think it is) then sell the team. Also if that's the case then why not trade him?

It probably is the case and points up why the NFLPA should be working with the league to either completely junk or substantially modify the funding rule. As it stands that rule handicaps teams that (because they are not a tax write-off / plaything for a billionaire with other interests) don't just have hundreds of millions of dollars in cash laying around to put into escrow. The Bengals are the family business and the family should not be forced to sell their business because of an idiotic rule dating from before teams had money. 

Tee supposedly wants about 45-50 million guaranteed. They're already on the hook for 53 million in guarantees this year and the estimated Operating Income is 104 million. I suspect if Mulugheta would move off of the super high guarantee number they could do a deal - the fact that they franchised him shows willingness to pay that number. There is also the dodgy way Mulugheta has operated here with the trade demands and leaking nonsense to the media. They may just not want to deal with him. 

(05-13-2024, 03:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:

Eight of the nine players who were tagged this offseason now have signed long-term deals. #Bengals WR Tee Higgins is the last one without a deal. He has requested a trade.

Antoine Winfield Jr. (Bucs): 4-years, $84.1M

Josh Allen (Jaguars): 5-years, $141.25M

Brian Burns… https://t.co/d6Da0Eq7NU

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) May 13, 2024

Obviously, we don't know the particulars on what the team offered Tee, but with his injuries over the years, his last season where he was
banged up and had his worst year as a pro and such I don't think he will be extended for a ton. At least not by the Bengals. They know who
they need to pay at WR and that is Ja'Marr Chase.

A trade could happen before the deadline if an injury occurs to somebody's best WR's. If not, we are just going to do what we all thought 
and keep Tee here this year on the Tag and next year let him test FA and see what he can get. Hopefully Tee has his best season ever and 
gets paid big time by somebody else. He does have a lot of incentive to play his best, none to holdout and not sign the Tag etc.

(05-16-2024, 11:58 AM)CJD Wrote: The person I quoted is definitely a Tee hater. He said "riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhttt" when I said Higgins is better than Devonta Smith, which should not be a controversial opinion. Especially from a Bengals fan's perspective.

Through the first 3 seasons of each player's career, they've had nearly identical statistics.
50 Games, 240 receptions, 352 targets, 3178 yards, 19 touchdowns, 147 first downs for Smith.

46 Games, 215 receptions, 327 targets, 3028 yards, 19 touchdowns, 151 first downs for Higgins.

They've both been #2 receivers behind an alpha receivers for the majority of their careers (outside of their rookie years), and both have been playing with elite QBs for the majority of their careers (minus Joe Burrow's injuries and Jalen Hurts' adjustment period to the NFL).

I personally prefer Higgins' style of receiver and think he works perfectly well with Burrow. He makes outstanding grabs in triple coverage that I don't think Smith is capable of making. I would not trade Higgins for Smith, because I think Higgins is the better receiver.

Higgins has had a few minor injuries, but nothing that has taken him out for long stretched of time. Just aches and bruises where he misses 1 to 2 games here and there. If that scares you off, then just never sign anyone long term, because this could happen to any player.

Through his first three seasons, he missed a total of 4 games and I think 1 or 2 of those were at the end of the season when we had already clinched the playoffs, but I don't remember for sure.

Bottomline is if you think Smith is worth 25M AAV, you should think Higgins is worth 25M AAV.

Now, if he said, "Yes, but Smith was overpaid" then I'd at least understand where he was coming from. But he sarcastically and condescendingly implied I'm a moron for even thinking Higgins is better than Smith.

The elephant in the room is Higgins 2023 season. He had a few more injuries than usual, missing 5 games, and Burrow's injury led to his worst season. But even then, he only missed 5 games. I don't think his injury concerns are on the scale of lost years. It's just lost games, which our offense is designed to handle.

I would also understand if Whatever said, "If I'm spending 25M AAV on a receiver, I expect him to never miss a game ever."
It would be a silly statement, but at least he would be saying something of value and would purvey his thoughts on why he would not want to extend Higgins.

But, again, all I got was a series of condescending nonsense responses.

You, rfaulk34, may not be a Tee hater, but that doesn't mean there aren't any here.

Look at the contract details...34 mil guaranteed...minimal cap hits and spread out over like 8 years...voidable year...Bengals don't do that 

(05-16-2024, 05:09 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Look at the contract details...34 mil guaranteed...minimal cap hits and spread out over like 8 years...voidable year...Bengals don't do that 

Maybe they should...

(05-16-2024, 11:58 AM)CJD Wrote: The person I quoted is definitely a Tee hater. He said "riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhttt" when I said Higgins is better than Devonta Smith, which should not be a controversial opinion. Especially from a Bengals fan's perspective.

Through the first 3 seasons of each player's career, they've had nearly identical statistics.
50 Games, 240 receptions, 352 targets, 3178 yards, 19 touchdowns, 147 first downs for Smith.

46 Games, 215 receptions, 327 targets, 3028 yards, 19 touchdowns, 151 first downs for Higgins...

Why are you comparing the 1st 3 seasons and not comparing the 3 seasons both have played in the NFL in the same time period?  You cant just ignore Tee's injuries because you dont like it his stats dont compare.  In the 3 years DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in 50 games, had 240 receptions with 3178 yards and 19 TDs.  In the same time period Tee Higgins has played in 42 games, had 190 receptions with 2776 yards and 18 TDs.  Since DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in more games, had more receptions with more yards and TDs than Tee Higgins.  DeVonta Smith has outplayed Tee Higgins in the time he has been in the NFL.  Tee Higgins should not be paid what DeVonta Smith when he has not produced at the same level since Smith has been in the NFL.  Tyler Boyd put up over 1000 yards 5 years ago should he be as much as Higgins?

(05-16-2024, 06:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Why are you comparing the 1st 3 seasons and not comparing the 3 seasons both have played in the NFL in the same time period?  You cant just ignore Tee's injuries because you dont like it his stats dont compare.  In the 3 years DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in 50 games, had 240 receptions with 3178 yards and 19 TDs.  In the same time period Tee Higgins has played in 42 games, had 190 receptions with 2776 yards and 18 TDs.  Since DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in more games, had more receptions with more yards and TDs than Tee Higgins.  DeVonta Smith has outplayed Tee Higgins in the time he has been in the NFL.  Tee Higgins should not be paid what DeVonta Smith when he has not produced at the same level since Smith has been in the NFL.  Tyler Boyd put up over 1000 yards 5 years ago should he be as much as Higgins?

Did you just stop reading my post at that point or something?

(05-16-2024, 06:42 PM)CJD Wrote: Did you just stop reading my post at that point or something?

No because you said:

"Bottomline is if you think Smith is worth 25M AAV, you should think Higgins is worth 25M AAV"

and that is the point.   Many people dont think Higgins is worth what Smith is worth at this point in time.   Personally I like Tee and would love to have him on the team but he isnt worth 25 million a year.  If he comes back this season, stays healthy and can post a 1000+ yard season, he will help himself a lot.  If he gets injured again, struggles to put up good numbers, he will get lower contract offers.  Its all about production.  You either produce at an elite level or you dont.  If you want to be paid like an elite WR, you need to play and produce like one.

(05-16-2024, 06:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Why are you comparing the 1st 3 seasons and not comparing the 3 seasons both have played in the NFL in the same time period?  You cant just ignore Tee's injuries because you dont like it his stats dont compare.  In the 3 years DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in 50 games, had 240 receptions with 3178 yards and 19 TDs.  In the same time period Tee Higgins has played in 42 games, had 190 receptions with 2776 yards and 18 TDs.  Since DeVonta Smith has been in the NFL he has played in more games, had more receptions with more yards and TDs than Tee Higgins.  DeVonta Smith has outplayed Tee Higgins in the time he has been in the NFL.  Tee Higgins should not be paid what DeVonta Smith when he has not produced at the same level since Smith has been in the NFL.  Tyler Boyd put up over 1000 yards 5 years ago should he be as much as Higgins?

Are you forgetting that Tee was playing with a banged up Burrow last season as well? That was the biggest reasons for his struggle last season.

(05-16-2024, 07:08 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: No because you said:

"Bottomline is if you think Smith is worth 25M AAV, you should think Higgins is worth 25M AAV"

and that is the point.   Many people dont think Higgins is worth what Smith is worth at this point in time.   Personally I like Tee and would love to have him on the team but he isnt worth 25 million a year.  If he comes back this season, stays healthy and can post a 1000+ yard season, he will help himself a lot.  If he gets injured again, struggles to put up good numbers, he will get lower contract offers.  Its all about production.  You either produce at an elite level or you dont.  If you want to be paid like an elite WR, you need to play and produce like one.

Higgins' first three years and Smith's first three years were 1 year apart. 2020 to 2022 vs 2021 to 2023. I was not trying to "trick" anyone by doing that comparison. Your comparison of saying Boyd had 1000 yards 5 seasons ago is so far off the mark, my only takeaway was that you were attempting to be disingenuous.

I left out 2023 because it was the obvious outlier due to injuries and Burrow's ineffectiveness and then injury and I addressed that season later in my post. I compared apples to apples, rather than apples to oranges.

If you are going to hold 2023 against Higgins, a year where absolutely nothing went right or to plan, then enjoy yourself. He went from an elite, all world talent (the very idea of trading Higgins last off season was met with a fanbase-wide guffaw, and a haughty declaration that other teams couldn't afford to trade for someone so valuable. A first and a second round pick minimum just to start the conversation) to gutter trash in some fans eyes after one season. Whew.

The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league, but not even they're THAT stringent.

(05-16-2024, 07:14 PM)J24 Wrote: Are you forgetting that Tee was playing with a banged up Burrow last season as well? That was the biggest reasons for his struggle last season.

It didn’t stop Chase from still putting up 1200 yards.

Tee was the biggest reason for Tee’s struggles last season.

(05-16-2024, 08:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It didn’t stop Chase from still putting up 1200 yards.

Tee was the biggest reason for Tee’s struggles last season.

Did you watch the first Cleveland game?

(05-16-2024, 10:37 PM)J24 Wrote: Did you watch the first Cleveland game?

Again, Chase still had a productive season. Saying Burrow was the main reason Tee underperformed is a cop out. He couldn’t stay healthy, and when he did play he was quite bad at times.