(05-13-2024, 06:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Rudi never played under the tag. He signed the tag Feb 15th 2005 and got extended Mar 7th 2005.

Nugent is the only Bengals who played under the franchise tag that they retained.

Even the Nugent deal wasn't special. He was coming off injury and the Bengals threw out a deal to him and Josh Brown. Nugent pounced first.

(05-15-2024, 10:03 PM)CJD Wrote: I had no idea there were so many Tee haters on these message boards. Last offseason, people were saying we had the best WR trio in the NFL and one of the best duos.

Now, suddenly, Tee isn't even worth extending 

Y'all are wishy washy af.

Calling him what he is is "hating", now?  Ok.  

Uhhh...our WR3 didn't get a contract until after the draft.  That should tell you something about how great the rest of the league thinks this WR group is.  

I mean, if you're one of those that thought Auden Tate was a high end WR2 and comparable to Mike Williams, it's easy to see why you might think Tee is a WR1.  Of course, Tater is in the CFL now because he lacks the talent, skill, and God given ability to cut it in the NFL, so that kind of tells you something.

I've always been consistent in my take on Tee.  Of course the poor season he had last year may have caused others to reevaluate.  I'm not going to say he's not worth extending, but if you're extending a player of his caliber for $25 mil APY, Chase's agent better be asking for $40 mil.

(05-16-2024, 10:37 PM)J24 Wrote: Did you watch the first Cleveland game?

The one where he had 0 catches despite 8 targets and was credited with a drop?  We gonna say he shoulders no blame?

(05-17-2024, 01:51 AM)Whatever Wrote: Calling him what he is is "hating", now?  Ok.  

Uhhh...our WR3 didn't get a contract until after the draft.  That should tell you something about how great the rest of the league thinks this WR group is.  

I mean, if you're one of those that thought Auden Tate was a high end WR2 and comparable to Mike Williams, it's easy to see why you might think Tee is a WR1.  Of course, Tater is in the CFL now because he lacks the talent, skill, and God given ability to cut it in the NFL, so that kind of tells you something.

I've always been consistent in my take on Tee.  Of course the poor season he had last year may have caused others to reevaluate.  I'm not going to say he's not worth extending, but if you're extending a player of his caliber for $25 mil APY, Chase's agent better be asking for $40 mil.

Riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhttt....

(05-16-2024, 08:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It didn’t stop Chase from still putting up 1200 yards.

Tee was the biggest reason for Tee’s struggles last season.

Truth, Chase still did his job and did it very well.

Tee and the injuries were the reason for his struggles as you say. Browning still was able to find Ja'Marr.

(05-16-2024, 10:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, Chase still had a productive season. Saying Burrow was the main reason Tee underperformed is a cop out. He couldn’t stay healthy, and when he did play he was quite bad at times.

It is a cop out. The drops were my biggest problem with Tee's game early to midseason last year. Boyd had similar problems.

Happy we added Jermaine Burton who looks to have fantastic hands.

(05-17-2024, 09:46 AM)CJD Wrote: Riiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhttt....

You know I usually agree with you CrazyJDawg, but Tee shouldn't be paid what Dovonta Smith got paid. Should be just under that as that is his
production and Tee is banged up more than Smith. I think someone will pay him that as well, just not us as we need to pay our true #1 in Ja'Marr.

If we could pull it off and pay both what they deserve I would be fine with it, but that doesn't seem like the plan from the FO.

(05-17-2024, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You know I usually agree with you CrazyJDawg, but Tee shouldn't be paid what Dovonta Smith got paid. Should be just under that as that is his
production and Tee is banged up more than Smith. I think someone will pay him that as well, just not us as we need to pay our true #1 in Ja'Marr.

If we could pull it off and pay both what they deserve I would be fine with it, but that doesn't seem like the plan from the FO.

According to his agent, he was asking for 3 years 70M, so 23.3M AAV. I think that's a bargain, but the Bengals apparently never even approached 20M AAV. 

It's a shame our FO never wants to bend their rules to keep the best players in house. They lost Bates over guarantees, now it looks like we're going to lose Higgins too.

Hendrickson is unhappy with his deal, so he's probably gone after his contract. So my big question is who are we actually planning on paying?

Just Joe and Ja'Marr?

The cap space is larger than that. We should be able to keep 3 to 5 major all star players on premium contracts, just like every other team.

(05-16-2024, 10:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Again, Chase still had a productive season. Saying Burrow was the main reason Tee underperformed is a cop out. He couldn’t stay healthy, and when he did play he was quite bad at times.

I feel like 3rd year (when WRs seem to take a big jump) Ja'Marr Chase could sleepwalk to 1200 yards, and 7 TDs. That's 200 yards more than he had in 2022 when he missed a month. That's unless we're saying Ja'Marr is as good as he's gonna get. I think he'll be the best WR in the NFL this year, and I think he would've been last year.

(05-17-2024, 03:07 PM)CJD Wrote: According to his agent, he was asking for 3 years 70M, so 23.3M AAV. I think that's a bargain, but the Bengals apparently never even approached 20M AAV. 

It's a shame our FO never wants to bend their rules to keep the best players in house. They lost Bates over guarantees, now it looks like we're going to lose Higgins too.

Hendrickson is unhappy with his deal, so he's probably gone after his contract. So my big question is who are we actually planning on paying?

Just Joe and Ja'Marr?

The cap space is larger than that. We should be able to keep 3 to 5 major all star players on premium contracts, just like every other team.

I don't think losing Tee will be as big of a deal as you are making it out to be now that we added Burton and the TE's.

Tee is banged up a lot.

We don't need to pay 2 WR's big money, just one IMO. Keep making the trenches strong and we should be more than fine with Joe, 
Ja'Marr and everybody else on Offense. I am still for bringing Ted Karras back after this year who is a good Center and we all know 
that is hard to find. There may be others that play very good this year that we might need to pay to keep in the SB picture for years.

(05-17-2024, 03:13 PM)jason Wrote: I feel like 3rd year (when WRs seem to take a big jump) Ja'Marr Chase could sleepwalk to 1200 yards, and 7 TDs. That's 200 yards more than he had in 2022 when he missed a month. That's unless we're saying Ja'Marr is as good as he's gonna get. I think he'll be the best WR in the NFL this year, and I think he would've been last year.

Completely agree Jason.

(05-17-2024, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't think losing Tee will be as big of a deal as you are making it out to be now that we added Burton and the TE's.

Tee is banged up a lot.

We don't need to pay 2 WR's big money, just one IMO. Keep making the trenches strong and we should be more than fine with Joe, 
Ja'Marr and everybody else on Offense. I am still for bringing Ted Karras back after this year who is a good Center and we all know 
that is hard to find. There may be others that play very good this year that we might need to pay to keep in the SB picture for years.

Losing Tee is going to be huge no matter how you slice it. Add on too the fact that we could have traded him this offseason to lesson the impact of his loss makes the FO look even dumber.

(05-17-2024, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't think losing Tee will be as big of a deal as you are making it out to be now that we added Burton and the TE's.

Tee is banged up a lot.

We don't need to pay 2 WR's big money, just one IMO. Keep making the trenches strong and we should be more than fine with Joe, 
Ja'Marr and everybody else on Offense. I am still for bringing Ted Karras back after this year who is a good Center and we all know 
that is hard to find. There may be others that play very good this year that we might need to pay to keep in the SB picture for years.

To be clear, (almost) any player can be replaced. The Bengals have shown the ability to replace players fairly well, especially at WR, where we have had at least 1 tier 1 receiver every season for the last 25 years.

I'm looking at it from an asset management stand point.

You have Jessie Bates. A tier 1 safety who wants to stay in Cincinnati, and you fail to sign him because of the 2nd year guarantee when everyone in the universe knows that you will not cut them after 1 year, even if it's the worst season in the NFL. Just give him the money.

You have Tee Higgins. A tier 1 (or tier 2, whatever) wide receiver who has shown he can be a #1 receiver (some of his best games are when Chase was injured), and who can make circus catches regularly. You have him on a cheap deal in the 2023 off season where everyone was talking about trading for him.

You don't trade him because "he's too valuable."

Now, it's one year later, and you don't even want to offer him 20M AAV?

If he is so valuable, lock him up or trade him for the first round pick you plan to use to replace him.

We let Bates go and got basically nothing for him. 

If we continue down this embarrassing path, we're going to lose Higgins in 2025 and get nothing for him either.

Either lock up your assets or trade them when their value is at its highest.

The Bengals are sitting on the fence between these two options in the absolute worst way possible.

And they're embarrassing themselves in the process, with two players requesting trades and leaks coming that they are cheaping out on Higgins without any response from the front office.

This is a Super Bowl caliber QB and a super bowl caliber roster at the moment.

I want a Super Bowl caliber front office. One that knows how to manage its assets.

(05-17-2024, 04:05 PM)J24 Wrote: Losing Tee is going to be huge no matter how you slice it. Add on too the fact that we could have traded him this offseason to lesson the impact of his loss makes the FO look even dumber.

What makes the team better this year...having or not having Tee on the roster?

I don't think it's 'dumb' to get at least one more year out of a talented WR that makes your team stronger because he's experienced in the system and has established chemistry with the QB. If the goal is to make a legit SB run this year, then having Tee out there is the smartest move, IMO.

(05-17-2024, 04:16 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: What makes the team better this year...having or not having Tee on the roster?

I don't think it's 'dumb' to get at least one more year out of a talented WR that makes your team stronger because he's experienced in the system and has established chemistry with the QB. If the goal is to make a legit SB run this year, then having Tee out there is the smartest move, IMO.

Right now they have a disgruntled player, with an agent in his ear telling him that he's worth WR1 money for a long term deal, on the roster. That doesn't seem like a smart move for a SB caliber team.  The same way everyone said that Jesse Bates was playing to protect himself in 2022? That will likely be the situation this year with Tee Higgins.

All you need to do is look at the guaranteed amount and compare it to both how much guaranteed $$$ the team is on the hook for this year and compare the total to Operating Income. Tee's rumored guarantee ask plus their existing obligations to put money into escrow this year under the funding rule would either be equal to exceed operating income. That can't work. Remember even Burrow on his mega deal agreed to break up the guarantee into annual chunks precisely because of this - the Bengals are the family business and source of income not a billionaire's plaything like the Stains (for example). They don't have a sugar daddy to write huge checks into escrow to cover guarantees. This is why the funding rule has got to go if the league expects to fully guarantee contracts.

(05-17-2024, 04:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Right now they have a disgruntled player, with an agent in his ear telling him that he's worth WR1 money for a long term deal, on the roster. That doesn't seem like a smart move for a SB caliber team.  The same way everyone said that Jesse Bates was playing to protect himself in 2022? That will likely be the situation this year with Tee Higgins.

Sorry brother, I just don't see Tee half-assing it, even if he isn't happy about his situation. Like I said, for this year, I just think the team is stronger with him on the roster. 

(05-17-2024, 04:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Sorry brother, I just don't see Tee half-assing it, even if he isn't happy about his situation. Like I said, for this year, I just think the team is stronger with him on the roster. 

I would argue that a player with an injury like Tee's is much more likely to play it safe. It make sense for him to play it safe.

Similarly, I hope the Bengals limit his snaps so he can be healthier down the stretch.

I can see an amalgam of these two things occurring this season, which is good for the young WR's and the Bengals overall.

(05-17-2024, 04:45 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I would argue that a player with an injury like Tee's is much more likely to play it safe. It make sense for him to play it safe.

Similarly, I hope the Bengals limit his snaps so he can be healthier down the stretch.

I can see an amalgam of these two things occurring this season, which is good for the young WR's and the Bengals overall.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out. I just feel like Tee is going to have a bigger year than many fans are expecting.

(05-17-2024, 04:45 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I would argue that a player with an injury like Tee's is much more likely to play it safe. It make sense for him to play it safe.

Similarly, I hope the Bengals limit his snaps so he can be healthier down the stretch.

I can see an amalgam of these two things occurring this season, which is good for the young WR's and the Bengals overall.

So the best way for Higgins to prove his worth and get a big new deal is to play it safe?? Good logic. lol 

Tee is completely healthy right now and in pure beast mode with his workouts,, if you follow him at all, which it doesn't seem like you do. 

(05-17-2024, 05:01 PM)Eraserhead Wrote: So the best way for Higgins to prove his worth and get a big new deal is to play it safe?? Good logic. lol 

Tee is completely healthy right now and in pure beast mode with his workouts,, if you follow him at all, which it doesn't seem like you do. 

At least he's taking good care of himself, for himself. Did he show to the voluntary team workouts?