Tee is now the only tagged player without a new deal

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-17-2024, 07:06 PM)J24 Wrote: It's been reported that the Bengals have had  zero interest in trading Tee!

Well that makes no sense unless we are planning on extending him, too bad Tee and his agent want more than the Bengals are evidently
willing to pay. I would of been exploring all options regarding trades leading up to and during the Draft as it is best in everyone's interests
including Tee's.

(05-17-2024, 10:48 PM)CJD Wrote: It would bother me less if I understood what they were doing. You mention that they are making a run at the Super Bowl this year, so keeping him is in the team's best interest, but if they were seriously treating this season like Super Bowl or bust season, why do we still have 23 million dollars in cap space? Why didn't we spend that money to make this year a Super Bowl or Bust year? Their actions are inconsistent.

Not to mention, the Bengals don't have any major, big ticket free agents coming due in 2025 other than Tee Higgins because of how bad the 2021 draft class was outside of Chase and McPherson.

Who are the players we risk losing if we signed Higgins to a 3 year deal today?

The biggest names that are free agents in 2025 are:
BJ Hill, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Jenkins
Mike Hilton, who is turning 31 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Dax
Trent Brown, who is turning 32 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Mims 
Gesicki, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with All and McLaughlin
And Ted Karras, who is turning 32 in 2025. He does not have an official replacement yet, but I think our 7th round pick Lee is going to get a good hard look (many consider him the steal of our draft class, as he was projected early day 3 by some), and maybe they give Karras a 1 or 2 year extension at a reasonable price.

They obviously will want to re-sign McPherson as well, but that's not going to be a huge cap hit regardless. 
And they will want to re-sign Chase eventually, but it sounds like he is going to wait until Jefferson and Lamb get extensions at the very least.

2026 has Hendrickson, Rankins, Hubbard, Cappa, Chase, Stone, Pratt, and Moss due up, but that's 2 years away. That's 2 cap increases, 2 free agent classes and 2 draft classes away, so I don't see why we'd need to handicap the 2024 Bengals by planning for the 2026 free agent class.

I just don't understand why we're saving so much money if "we can't afford" to extend basically anyone haha.

Good points, Karras is the one guy who stands out to me as the guy we need to keep as Lee is a damn good pass protector but 
needs to really work on his run blocking. He will take a little time. A good Center is hard to find as us Bengals fans know all too well.

Like you said in your next post. Most top FA's now a days don't hit Free Agency, they are extended or traded like I expect with Justin
Jefferson within the next year or so. We might be looking at extending Ja'Marr before the season starts and that could be what is 
going on or he could be waiting to see what JJ gets as you say.

[*jason*]

(05-17-2024, 10:48 PM)CJD Wrote: It would bother me less if I understood what they were doing. You mention that they are making a run at the Super Bowl this year, so keeping him is in the team's best interest, but if they were seriously treating this season like Super Bowl or bust season, why do we still have 23 million dollars in cap space? Why didn't we spend that money to make this year a Super Bowl or Bust year? Their actions are inconsistent.

Not to mention, the Bengals don't have any major, big ticket free agents coming due in 2025 other than Tee Higgins because of how bad the 2021 draft class was outside of Chase and McPherson.

Who are the players we risk losing if we signed Higgins to a 3 year deal today?

The biggest names that are free agents in 2025 are:
BJ Hill, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Jenkins
Mike Hilton, who is turning 31 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Dax
Trent Brown, who is turning 32 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Mims 
Gesicki, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with All and McLaughlin
And Ted Karras, who is turning 32 in 2025. He does not have an official replacement yet, but I think our 7th round pick Lee is going to get a good hard look (many consider him the steal of our draft class, as he was projected early day 3 by some), and maybe they give Karras a 1 or 2 year extension at a reasonable price.

They obviously will want to re-sign McPherson as well, but that's not going to be a huge cap hit regardless. 
And they will want to re-sign Chase eventually, but it sounds like he is going to wait until Jefferson and Lamb get extensions at the very least.

2026 has Hendrickson, Rankins, Hubbard, Cappa, Chase, Stone, Pratt, and Moss due up, but that's 2 years away. That's 2 cap increases, 2 free agent classes and 2 draft classes away, so I don't see why we'd need to handicap the 2024 Bengals by planning for the 2026 free agent class.

I just don't understand why we're saving so much money if "we can't afford" to extend basically anyone haha.

This... I was ok with letting Bates walk because I thought the money was going to Chase, Joe, and Tee and whomever else. But man if there was no intent to lock Higgins up, what the hell? They could've kept Jesse Bates. I can't wrap my head around their vision. I know you can't keep everybody, but you also can't not keep anybody.

[007BengalsFan]

(05-18-2024, 03:02 PM)jason Wrote: This... I was ok with letting Bates walk because I thought the money was going to Chase, Joe, and Tee and whomever else. But man if there was no intent to lock Higgins up, what the hell? They could've kept Jesse Bates. I can't wrap my head around their vision. I know you can't keep everybody, but you also can't not keep anybody.

Im not sure anyone expected the salary cap to jump up as much as it did which has created more cap room than expected.  Hindsight is always 20/20.  I would think if the Bengals could go back and redo the situation they would pay Bates the 16 million per year and use that 1st round draft pick on someone else.

[Whatever]

(05-18-2024, 01:35 PM)CJD Wrote: Unironically, tier 1 players (those often considered worthy of a franchise tag) typically don't hit free agency. Or, if they do, their team concedes to their demands and pays them to stay. 

Top free agents of 2024 per PFF:
Chris Jones - Resigned
Kirk Cousins - Left his team
Josh Allen - Franchised and extended
Tee Higgins - Franchised, but not extended
Brian Burns - Franchised and traded
Justin Madubuike - Resigned
Christian Wilkins - Bizarrely not franchise tagged, and then left his team
Antoine Windfield - Franchised and extended
Jaylon Johnson - Resigned
L'Jarius Sneed - Franchised and traded
Michael Pittman Jr - Franchised and resigned
Danielle Hunter - left his team
Mike Evans - Resigned
Tyron Smith - Left his team
Kendall Fuller - Left his team
Leonard Williams - Resigned (after previously being traded)

Notably, the players among the top free agent targets that left their team in free agency were on the older side and their teams intended to move on from them (Cousins, Hunter, Smith, Fuller). Wilkins is the big outlier and I remember people considering it very strange that Miami did not franchise tag him. I think the reason was the team was unable to absorb the cap hit of a 1 year guaranteed contract and they just hoped Wilkins would stay on through free agency. Obviously, that gamble did not work.

In other words, the majority of the young, "cream of the crop" free agents this year either resigned with their teams or were franchised and traded.

After the first tier of free agents, you obviously have the next tier of free agents that did not warrant the franchise tag and trade approach like Bryce Huff, Patrick Queen, DJ Reader, etc, along with some players whose market was not what they expected and signed 1 year deals to test free agency again next year like Marquise Brown.

That's where a lot of team swapping occurs. But the top of the list is where you see team swaps less frequently.

There were a few more free agents who left their team for nothing in 2023:
Lamar Jackson - Resigned
Geno Smith - Resigned
Javon Hargrave - Left his team
Jessie Bates - Left his team
Jamel Dean - Resigned
Lavonte David - Resigned
Jakobi Meyers - Left his team
Orlando Brown Jr - Left his team
Daron Payne - Franchised and resigned
Derek Carr - Left his team
Mike McGlinchey - Left his team

The notable young players that left their teams were Jessie Bates and Orlando Brown Jr. Both contentious former franchise taggees. We benefitted from one, lost out due to the other. (Side note: Jakobi Meyers in the top 7 and Mike McGlinchey in the top 11 of that free agency class really tells you how weak some free agency classes can be due to teams retaining their stars).

And then 2022 was a very old free agent class, headed up by:
30 year old Terron Armstead - left his team 
33 year old Von Miller - left his team
32 year old Chandler Jones - left his team
26 year old JC Jackson  - left his team (an outlier who turned out to be a product of the New England system) 
26 year old Marcus Williams left his team (similar situation to Bates, Higgins, and Brown. Franchise tagged, contentiously not re-signed, hit free agency the following year)
31 year old Ryan Jensen - resigned
31 year old Bobby Wagner - left his team
29 year old Jadaveon Clowney - left his team and has been on 5 teams in the last 6 years
31 year old Stephon Gilmore - left his team
25 year old Carlton Davis - resigned
28 year old Allen Robinson - former team was not interested in resigning him, and the last two years are an indication of why
29 year old Randy Gregory - Very strange free agency where he originally resigned with his original team before he panicked about some language in the contract regarding fines and suspensions, and he bolted for the Broncos, where he played like shit for 2 years, and then was traded.

What I'm getting at is, yes, it is very hard for elite, young players to reach free agency without being traded or extended. There are exceptions, but in the last 2 years, 2 of ~5 exceptions (Higgins, Bates, Wilkins, Brown, with McGlinchey on the edge of what I'd consider a tier 1 free agent) have been at the expense of the Bengals.

And, as the 2022 free agent class indicated, there are often older (29+) players at the top of the list, with only a few young guys that make it there after contentious disputes with their former team like Marcus Williams.

So, to answer your questions:

More often then you seem to be implying


Not as often as you seem to be implying.

Maybe it is Madden.

Here's your problem.  Higgins isn't elite.  

Going through your list for this year, the first name aside from Higgins I hit that's never been an All Pro or Pro Bowler is Christian Wilkins ..who the fins let walk.  Sneed was Tagged and traded.  Pittman tagged and resigned(which we covered earlier).  Fuller walked.  

Sneed netted a 2025 3rd rounder, plus a swap of 7th's, a far cry from what people wanted for Tee.  So basically, 4th round value in this year's draft due to the depreciation of future picks.  Not exactly a franchise shaking deal.  

From a club perspective, I can see why you would want to keep Tee around one more year given that you're changing the  WR3, RB, and TE.  It's a "Win Now" move, but the club isn't "All In."

[007BengalsFan]

(05-18-2024, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well that makes no sense unless we are planning on extending him, too bad Tee and his agent want more than the Bengals are evidently
willing to pay. I would of been exploring all options regarding trades leading up to and during the Draft as it is best in everyone's interests
including Tee's...

It makes no sense to me either.  It doesnt appear they are extending him so the plan is what?  Keep Tee for one season then let him walk and get nothing?  If some team would give us a 1st round draft pick for next years draft, I would do it.   Is having Tee for one season worth losing out on a 1st round draft pick?

[Nicomo Cosca]

I can’t believe people are still going around and around on this. No team is giving up a 1st round pick for Tee. That was never even remotely realistic.

[CJD]

(05-19-2024, 03:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: Here's your problem.  Higgins isn't elite.  

Going through your list for this year, the first name aside from Higgins I hit that's never been an All Pro or Pro Bowler is Christian Wilkins ..who the fins let walk.  Sneed was Tagged and traded.  Pittman tagged and resigned(which we covered earlier).  Fuller walked.  

Sneed netted a 2025 3rd rounder, plus a swap of 7th's, a far cry from what people wanted for Tee.  So basically, 4th round value in this year's draft due to the depreciation of future picks.  Not exactly a franchise shaking deal.  

From a club perspective, I can see why you would want to keep Tee around one more year given that you're changing the  WR3, RB, and TE.  It's a "Win Now" move, but the club isn't "All In."

I understand that that is your opinion.

I just disagree. Like I said, I think Higgins is as valuable to this team as Devonta Smith is to the Eagles. He also never had an all pro or a pro bowl, yet he got 25 million per year.

[NATI BENGALS]

(05-17-2024, 10:48 PM)CJD Wrote: It would bother me less if I understood what they were doing. You mention that they are making a run at the Super Bowl this year, so keeping him is in the team's best interest, but if they were seriously treating this season like Super Bowl or bust season, why do we still have 23 million dollars in cap space? Why didn't we spend that money to make this year a Super Bowl or Bust year? Their actions are inconsistent.

Not to mention, the Bengals don't have any major, big ticket free agents coming due in 2025 other than Tee Higgins because of how bad the 2021 draft class was outside of Chase and McPherson.

Who are the players we risk losing if we signed Higgins to a 3 year deal today?

The biggest names that are free agents in 2025 are:
BJ Hill, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Jenkins
Mike Hilton, who is turning 31 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Dax
Trent Brown, who is turning 32 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with Mims 
Gesicki, who is turning 30 in 2025 and they've already effectively replaced with All and McLaughlin
And Ted Karras, who is turning 32 in 2025. He does not have an official replacement yet, but I think our 7th round pick Lee is going to get a good hard look (many consider him the steal of our draft class, as he was projected early day 3 by some), and maybe they give Karras a 1 or 2 year extension at a reasonable price.

They obviously will want to re-sign McPherson as well, but that's not going to be a huge cap hit regardless. 
And they will want to re-sign Chase eventually, but it sounds like he is going to wait until Jefferson and Lamb get extensions at the very least.

2026 has Hendrickson, Rankins, Hubbard, Cappa, Chase, Stone, Pratt, and Moss due up, but that's 2 years away. That's 2 cap increases, 2 free agent classes and 2 draft classes away, so I don't see why we'd need to handicap the 2024 Bengals by planning for the 2026 free agent class.

I just don't understand why we're saving so much money if "we can't afford" to extend basically anyone haha.

We only have 4 players under contract for 2026 not on rookie/udfa type deals. Burrow, Zeus, Wilson, and Sample. They need to get a few multi year extensions done. I think they will be spending more of that leftover money.

[007BengalsFan]

(05-19-2024, 03:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can’t believe people are still going around and around on this. No team is giving up a 1st round pick for Tee. That was never even remotely realistic.

Then Tee isnt nearly as valuable as people are claiming.  Lets not act like he is a #1 or deserves to be paid like a #1 if teams dont value him as such.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-19-2024, 03:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It makes no sense to me either.  It doesnt appear they are extending him so the plan is what?  Keep Tee for one season then let him walk and get nothing?  If some team would give us a 1st round draft pick for next years draft, I would do it.   Is having Tee for one season worth losing out on a 1st round draft pick?

We were never going to get a 1st round pick for him as Nicomo says, that is unrealistic but a 2nd round pick might be possible and
we should take it if we are offered it if Tee isn't in our long term plans. Sounds like we are just going to keep him this year and let him
walk for nothing. Hopefully we win the Super Bowl and Tee stays healthy and has his best season ever is all we can hope.

(05-19-2024, 03:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can’t believe people are still going around and around on this. No team is giving up a 1st round pick for Tee. That was never even remotely realistic.

True.

(05-19-2024, 05:09 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We only have 4 players under contract for 2026 not on rookie/udfa type deals. Burrow, Zeus, Wilson, and Sample. They need to get a few multi year extensions done. I think they will be spending more of that leftover money.

Pratt is on a multi year extension as well.

(05-19-2024, 08:19 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Then Tee isnt nearly as valuable as people are claiming.  Lets not act like he is a #1 or deserves to be paid like a #1 if teams dont value him as such.

He might be that valuable if he could stay healthy yah never know. But that is the problem.

Tee's short area quickness is not very good which I think keeps him from being a #1 WR.

[XenoMorph]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-tee-higgins-wont-sign-his-tender-before-next-weeks-otas


Welp if he doesnt wanna be here dont want him on the field... Said the same with baits.

[*pally*]

(05-21-2024, 09:15 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-tee-higgins-wont-sign-his-tender-before-next-weeks-otas


Welp if he doesnt wanna be here dont want him on the field... Said the same with baits.

 I never expected to see him before training camp amyway.

Gives Joe more time to work with Geseki and Burton

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-21-2024, 09:15 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-tee-higgins-wont-sign-his-tender-before-next-weeks-otas


Welp if he doesnt wanna be here dont want him on the field... Said the same with baits.

This is an all time bad misspelling. :lol:

[Nepa]

(05-21-2024, 09:40 AM)pally Wrote:  I never expected to see him before training camp amyway.

Gives Joe more time to work with Geseki and Burton

At what point does Higgins have to sign or he starts losing money? Can he sit out training camp and sign right before the first game and still get his entire salary?  I am hoping he gets a long-term agreement with the  Bengals before the July 15 deadline to sign such a deal, but if he doesn't, can he conceivably sit out training camp and not lose any money?

[Whatever]

(05-21-2024, 12:08 PM)Nepa Wrote: At what point does Higgins have to sign or he starts losing money? Can he sit out training camp and sign right before the first game and still get his entire salary?  I am hoping he gets a long-term agreement with the  Bengals before the July 15 deadline to sign such a deal, but if he doesn't, can he conceivably sit out training camp and not lose any money?

Since the FT is all salary, all the money is tied to game checks, meaning he loses nothing until Game 1 of the season.  He can literally sign the Saturday before the opener and not miss out on a penny.  I don't think it's at this point, but he also only has to sign with 6 games left in the season to accrue a season and escalate the FT cost for next year.  We won't see Tee in the building until after TC and preseason are done.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2024, 12:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: Since the FT is all salary, all the money is tied to game checks, meaning he loses nothing until Game 1 of the season.  He can literally sign the Saturday before the opener and not miss out on a penny.  I don't think it's at this point, but he also only has to sign with 6 games left in the season to accrue a season and escalate the FT cost for next year.  We won't see Tee in the building until after TC and preseason are done.

Well that sucks...

[Joelist]

Oh well, it would be funny if he loses his job to Burton or Yoshi because they get the snaps and show they have what it takes.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2024, 03:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: Oh well, it would be funny if he loses his job to Burton or Yoshi because they get the snaps and show they have what it takes.

Man, this entire situation is rough. Always loved Tee but this just makes him look bad to me whether it is his agent's fault or not.

He shouldn't be asking for any more money than Davante Smith got who has better production.

Burton is crazy talented. Doubt Iosivas does enough to take snaps away from Tee but this might be a good thing as he should have a 
lot more practice with Burrow and when Tee inevitably goes down again with injury Iosivas should be ready.

[Joelist]

(05-21-2024, 04:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Man, this entire situation is rough. Always loved Tee but this just makes him look bad to me whether it is his agent's fault or not.

He shouldn't be asking for any more money than Davante Smith got who has better production.

Burton is crazy talented. Doubt Iosivas does enough to take snaps away from Tee but this might be a good thing as he should have a 
lot more practice with Burrow and when Tee inevitably goes down again with injury Iosivas should be ready.

The funny thing is Browning missed Yoshi at least three times on what would have been long TDs - and miss here does not mean throw and no catch it means he stood there and did not release to Yoshi who had beaten his defender. So he has the tools he just needs to polish his technique. And yes Burton looks really good so far and his talent does remind me a little od Chad with the body control at the edges of the field. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-21-2024, 04:12 PM)Joelist Wrote: The funny thing is Browning missed Yoshi at least three times on what would have been long TDs - and miss here does not mean throw and no catch it means he stood there and did not release to Yoshi who had beaten his defender. So he has the tools he just needs to polish his technique. And yes Burton looks really good so far and his talent does remind me a little od Chad with the body control at the edges of the field. 

For sure on Yoshi, he had like 3 long TD's that were left on the field simply because Jake didn't see him running wide open.

I can see the Chad comparison with Jermaine as well. Great speed with great body control on the sideline. Chad's toe tap was the best ever
though, Jermaine is going to have to work really hard to get that good. Burton is tougher than Chad though, as far as build. Both Chase and 
Burton are tough sumbitches.