(05-16-2024, 07:04 PM)J24 Wrote: I imagine that the starting NT isn't yet on the roster unless Jackson or Jenkins has a major training camp in them.

There is no way we have room on the roster. We added a top vet DT for 2 year 26 million and spent two top 100 draft picks in DTs. We only lost two, Reader and Topou, who combined for 822 snaps.

I’m confident we will be able to get 822 snaps from our three offseason investments. Hell, one legged Hubbard played 714 last year.

We have four that are pretty much roster locks and a 5th who was a 3rd round pick and is only going in to year three.

(05-16-2024, 08:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: There is no way we have room on the roster. We added a top vet DT for 2 year 26 million and spent two top 100 draft picks in DTs. We only lost two, Reader and Topou, who combined for 822 snaps.

I’m confident we will be able to get 822 snaps from our three offseason investments. Hell one legged Hubbard played 714 last year.

We have four that are pretty much roster locks and a 5th who was a 3rd round pick and is only going in to year three.

I tend to agree. However, I do not think Carter or Tufele are locks for the 53. At least 5 DT/NT types will make it. And I don't think 11 DL is that unlikely. Though 6 DEs is more likely than 6 DTs, IMHO, anyway. 

But Hill, Rankins, Jenkins, and McKinnley are locks. 

(05-16-2024, 08:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: There is no way we have room on the roster. We added a top vet DT for 2 year 26 million and spent two top 100 draft picks in DTs. We only lost two, Reader and Topou, who combined for 822 snaps.

I’m confident we will be able to get 822 snaps from our three offseason investments. Hell one legged Hubbard played 714 last year.

We have four that are pretty much roster locks and a 5th who was a 3rd round pick and is only going in to year three.

Hill, Rankins, Jenkins, and Jackson are the only locks on this roster. Two of those players are also rookies and asking them to fill Reader's role is a bit harsh. So yes we should be looking forward Veteran NT!

(05-16-2024, 05:08 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Rankins is taking Reader’s snaps. Jenkins is taking Carter’s snaps. Jackson is taking Topou’s snaps. Snaps from last year that is. Hopefully.

Pretty much but Jackson will take Rankins snaps in short yardage and goal line.

(05-16-2024, 11:38 PM)J24 Wrote: Hill, Rankins, Jenkins, and Jackson are the only locks on this roster. Two of those players are also rookies and asking them to fill Reader's role is a bit harsh. So yes we should be looking forward Veteran NT!

They aren’t. Rankins is Readers replacement. He played there. They aren’t remotely looking for. Vet NT. He’s a better overall player only because of his pass rush. He’ll be subbed out in short yardage by Jackson.

(05-17-2024, 09:25 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Pretty much but Jackson will take Rankins snaps in short yardage and goal line.

And that is the way to go...

(05-17-2024, 09:27 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They aren’t. Rankins is Readers replacement. He played there. They aren’t remotely looking for. Vet NT. He’s a better overall player only because of his pass rush. He’ll be subbed out in short yardage by Jackson.

Makes sense, I know I thought of Reader as more of a NT but looking at his snaps he was playing out in the 2-Gap much more than 0-gap.

Plus Rankins was a good run stopper when he was with the Jets and that was what he was asked to do. People just look at Rankins last year
and his poor grade and think he isn't a good run stopper. The Jets were the best run stopping Defense in the league when Rankins was on 
their team and he was asked to stop the run. When asked to rush the passer he is by far our best DT at doing this though and we all know 
that BJ is pretty solid.

(05-17-2024, 09:27 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They aren’t. Rankins is Readers replacement. He played there. They aren’t remotely looking for. Vet NT. He’s a better overall player only because of his pass rush. He’ll be subbed out in short yardage by Jackson.

Rankins isn't Readers replacement. He'll see some of those snaps, but Hill will see more there and is better suited for it. 

(05-16-2024, 02:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Rankins may take Reader's snap in count only. No way he does what we asked of Reader. I think we'll see a combination of Hill/ Jackson take Reader's snaps and Rankins take Hill's snaps

^This is the correct view of the DT situation.

(05-17-2024, 05:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ^This is the correct view of the DT situation.

It is true. Reader and Rankins are nothing alike as players. Rankins as Bfine said will take his place in snap count only starting next to BJ Hill.

(05-17-2024, 06:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is true. Reader and Rankins are nothing alike as players. Rankins as Bfine said will take his place in snap count only starting next to BJ Hill.

Yes, anyone thinking that Rankins is going to play, let along be effective at NT is in Madden dream land. BJ Hill will slide over to NT for most snaps as Jackson get's ready for NFL level play. Rankins is a good pass rusher from the 3T, not NT. Those positions are not as interchangeable as some would like to believe.

(05-17-2024, 07:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, anyone thinking that Rankins is going to play, let along be effective at NT is in Madden dream land. BJ Hill will slide over to NT for most snaps as Jackson get's ready for NFL level play. Rankins is a good pass rusher from the 3T, not NT. Those positions are not as interchangeable as some would like to believe.

I think the NT thing has been blown way out of proportion. Maybe it’s good we will be forced to change up our defensive approach a little. Since we had the stud NT last year and the D wasn’t good enough giving up the second most yards in the league. It’s fair to blame a lot on the young secondary. But maybe teams learned how to exploit Lou’s D which was successful for maybe a little too long in the not for long league.

To me the special breed of 4-3 DTs is the pass rusher. We saw it first hand in our recent playoff losses. If our QB is healthy and our O is explosive. Hill and Rankins will be in the game collapsing the pocket. Where as if we had Reader he would be on the bench as our opponents revert to the pass playing catch up.

(05-17-2024, 05:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: ^This is the correct view of the DT situation.

Yep. 

Though I think Jenkins will be aaked to do some Reader-esque stuff as well. He and Hill will do a bit of both. Jackson is NT/run stuff all the way. Rankins is 3T/pass rush all the way.

NT type stuff: Hill, Jackson, Jenkins 
3T type stuff: Rankins, Hill, Jenkins

#5 is wide open. Be it Carter, Tufeke, Davis, Maxwell, or someone not on the roster. Whether #5 is more of a NT or 3T will probably depend how how the top 4 guys look in their roles. 

Where are we deepest, where do we need the most help? Pass rush or run stuff? 

(05-17-2024, 08:01 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I think the NT thing has been blown way out of proportion. Maybe it’s good we will be forced to change up our defensive approach a little.  Since we had the stud NT last year and the D wasn’t good enough giving up the second most yards in the league. It’s fair to blame a lot on the young secondary. But maybe teams learned how to exploit Lou’s D which was successful for maybe a little too long in the not for long league.

To me the special breed of 4-3 DTs is the pass rusher. We saw it first hand in our recent playoff losses. If our QB is healthy and our O is explosive. Hill and Rankins will be in the game collapsing the pocket. Where as if we had Reader he would be on the bench as our opponents revert to the pass playing catch up.

Playing in the division that the Bengals do, are you sure that we don't need a true NT?

(05-17-2024, 08:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Playing in the division that the Bengals do, are you sure that we don't need a true NT?

I'd rather we try to play with an explosive offense that jumps out to early leads and makes our opponents play catch up than try to grind out AFC North wins with a coach who insists on shotgun spread offense.

And we went 0-4 in the division with the unicorn NT playing for us last year.

I think it's gonna be versatile and rotational on the IDL moving forward. I would think the base defense will have Hill at NT and Rankins at 3T the majority of the time. Jenkins is the wild card. The Mutant is a strong kid, who I could see being able to do what a NT is asked to do in this defense provided his brains match the physical talent. Not full time, as Jackson will get snaps too, I would think STRICTLY at NT. Jackson's snap count, this year, will probably be low provided we stay healthy and he's used more in 5-2-4, 3-4, and goal line situations.

Bottom line is I think we will be fine. I really don't think having the prototypical 330lb strongman NT is as vital as some make it out to be. If we have guys that can do the job, and can be rotated there situationally, it can help the defense not look so predictable pre-snap. Let's also not discount what a healthy Sam Hubbard brings as well. Stopping the run is just as much attitude as it is scheme and talent.

(05-17-2024, 05:11 PM)Eraserhead Wrote: Rankins isn't Readers replacement. He'll see some of those snaps, but Hill will see more there and is better suited for it. 

We’ll see not what I was told.

(05-16-2024, 08:51 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: There is no way we have room on the roster. We added a top vet DT for 2 year 26 million and spent two top 100 draft picks in DTs. We only lost two, Reader and Topou, who combined for 822 snaps.

I’m confident we will be able to get 822 snaps from our three offseason investments. Hell, one legged Hubbard played 714 last year.

We have four that are pretty much roster locks and a 5th who was a 3rd round pick and is only going in to year three.

Imagine reducing DJ Reader's impact to a snap count. That's just wrong. 

(05-16-2024, 07:04 PM)J24 Wrote: I imagine that the starting NT isn't yet on the roster unless Jackson or Jenkins has a major training camp in them.

Our good buddy down it TEN has 3 DTs over 330; 2 of them 360+. Conversely, we have 6 DTs 310 and under; 3 of which are under 300

For the record, I loved and respected the play of DJ Reader. He was a great run stopper, but frankly a poor pass rusher.

I think the Bengals know better than any of us our impact losing him.

I understand we play in a rugged run division, and we need to attempt to stop the 4 or more yard runs on 1st and 2nd down. But we also play great passing teams not only in the division, but a team like KC.

In time, we will see if what we lost against the run, we gained against the pass. Rankins is a better pass rusher than DJ and we need to get more pressure up the middle in our pass rush. I hope the offense and Burrow can put us in better position in 2024 to have a nice lead heading into the 4th quarter making teams 1 dimensional.

I know this, our defense was not good with DJ in 2023, our offense was not good without Burrow either.

At this point, we can hope Jenkins and others step up on the DL so we get better than the 2023 team with a healthy DJ Reader.

(05-18-2024, 01:12 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I'd rather we try to play with an explosive offense that jumps out to early leads and makes our opponents play catch up than try to grind out AFC North wins with a coach who insists on shotgun spread offense.

And we went 0-4 in the division with the unicorn NT playing for us last year.

Still, we need to stop the run to force teams to pass in case our Offense isn't always great. I think Lou knows this and he will be working on 
communication all Offseason so when teams try and run we have run blitzes and such from our Linebackers, Hilton and Dax. Our unicorn NT
is Mckinnley Jackson, he is built just like DJ Reader but he will take time being a rookie and all.

Unrealistic to think our Offense will always be unstoppable especially with our OL coach and what we have seen in the past.

We keep expecting our Offense to make that jump, but we need to have a running game and we cannot always be in Shotgun.