(01-06-2016, 10:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  No one here is fine with mediocrity.  We all want to win it all.  We just disagree on what is the best way to get there.

2.  I have noticed that most of the people who try to claim they are superior because they "do not accept mediocrity" are just insecure and trying to compensate for the mediocrity they have accepted in their personal lives.

1.Marvin 0-6 could be 0-7. What's the answer Fred the great?
2. Bait. Not taking it. Grow up

(01-06-2016, 10:30 PM)ShowMeUrTDs Wrote: All one has to do is read about two of your post to see...you have ZERO credibility (Hey, same as the amount of Marvin's playoff wins!! Who knew?!?!?!)

Yes many coaches fail to win games, divisions, and playoff games every year. You're right it would take forever to research and list them all, however the vast majority of all those coaches had crappy and less talented teams!!! The far majority of coaches who have been to the playoffs multiple times with GOOD teams have WINS in the postseason.

This makes Marvin's failures in the playoffs a far greater crime because he has had very good teams that underperformed and were not properly prepared.

My grandfather, rest his soul, always taught upon me from a young age, "there is no greater tragedy in life, than a man to waste his talents."

Marvin Lewis has now wasted six very talented Cincinnati Bengals teams, and counting. . . .

What a great way to try to get around a team being good.... so the Head Coach has nothing to do with drafting and developing players and playing calling during the season and building and maintaining a team... I believe Marvin took over a team that today would compare to the Browns today.. I love how so many people say don;t go to the Browns you can;t win there.. hmmmm I believe that is what they said about the Bengals before Marvin then what happens the Bengals become a winner.... sorry facts are facts.. just like wins are wins, division championships are championships and playoff appearance are playoff appearances.  

Well im done providing facts for you... your bias and almost hatred towards Marvin makes this hopeless conversation.  

P

(01-06-2016, 10:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lewis has only had the better team once when he lost a playoff game.  Chargers in '13.

First, I said he wasted very talented teams period. Are you denying he had talented teams?

Second, why is it the 2013 Chargers were the only one his team was better than? Because you said so??

They were the higher seed in 3 of the 6 games (meaning they had a better season than their opponent), or are you basing your position off Vegas game lines? Or just your FredToast superior Tennesee knowledge???

(01-06-2016, 10:48 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: What a great way to try to get around a team being good.... so the Head Coach has nothing to do with drafting and developing players and playing calling during the season and building and maintaining a team... I believe Marvin took over a team that today would compare to the Browns today.. I love how so many people say don;t go to the Browns you can;t win there.. hmmmm I believe that is what they said about the Bengals before Marvin then what happens the Bengals become a winner.... sorry facts are facts.. just like wins are wins, division championships are championships and playoff appearance are playoff appearances.  

Well im done providing facts for you... your bias and almost hatred towards Marvin makes this hopeless conversation.  

P

Who said anything about "try to get around a team being good?" I guess you just can't intellectually comprehend what I said!!

To the contrary, I said his teams were VERY GOOD which is a much greater travesty for failing in the postseason!!!! (I didn't take any credit away from his role in developing those teams either)

Second, wanna talk about hilarious, you have provided ZERO facts (Again, same number of Lewis playoff wins!! Is there a theme developing here?!?!?!) only your opinions as to why he is a great coach and the Bengals are such a great team despite the 25 year playoff hiatus!! Facts are tangible and undisputable pieces of evidence such as, playoff records 0-6 or lifetime home record against a division rival like the Pittsburgh Stoolers, 2-12, THOSE ARE FACTS!!

I have no hatred or bias towards Marvin Lewis, as you speculate, I am eternally grateful for what he has done for the Cincinnati Bengals, and the City of Cincinnati. I am of the opinion in a game where a championship trophy is a team's measure, a coach who has entered the tournament to win that trophy six times and failed each and everytime has "coached himself out of a job!" 

(01-06-2016, 10:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Wow seven coaches out of the 70 something that have been hired over the last decade.

Why not start Wenning at QB, he has never lost a single playoff game.

Brilliant logic.

You think I went through an entire list of 70+ candidates over the last decade?  

I went through a list of current NFL head coaches. The only one I added was Jim Harbaugh. Keep in mind that at least half the coaches in the NFL are retreads and 6 examples is pretty solid. Also, some organizations are better at finding good coaches than others.

Btw, comparing players (that can be scouted and get play time based at least partly on physical skill) to head coaching candidates?

Brilliant logic.

(01-06-2016, 10:37 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: 1.Marvin 0-6 could be 0-7. What's the answer Fred the great?

I would be in favor of replacing Marvin if we could find coach with a better record, but I do not agree with dumping a coach who has been so successful for a guy who has not proven that he is better than Marvin.

So give me a list of our options if we get rid of Marvin.  Who is out there that is better?  Sometimes a guy like John Fox hits the market, but that is very rare.  Most good coaches are already coaching someplace else.  I don't see any clear upgrades available thhis year.

(01-06-2016, 11:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You think I went through an entire list of 70+ candidates over the last decade?  

You had to go through at least 70 to go all the way back to Tomlin.

Unless you just chose to ignore the mountain of evidence that disproves your point and just cherry pick the five examples that supports it.

I know two people who have smoked their entire life and they don't have lung or heart disease.  Does this prove that there is no health risk from smoking?

(01-06-2016, 10:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Lewis has only had the better team once when he lost a playoff game.  Chargers in '13.

Big bowl of wrong your eating there. The Bengals should've never lost to the Jets in 09. Bengals were far superior and it was another classic blown "Lewis" game. I also believe the Bengals had a better team in 05 against the Steelers, hence taking Carson out to win. 

(01-07-2016, 12:02 AM)fredto Wrote: So give me a list of our options if we get rid of Marvin.  

Considering Mike Zimmer and Jay Gruden are both in the playoffs and Hue Jackson is a top candidate for other HC positions..do i really have to answer the question?

I have nothing against Marvin, I've defended him for quite awhile.  But my argument is a cumulative argument.  I'm thankful for not sucking as badly as we did prior to Marvin coming here, but I'm not satisfied with this level anymore.  So yes, I'd prefer to be 'hot' or 'cold' but this average of 10 wins a season and continuing to lose first game of the playoffs is unacceptable to me.  Either win 2 or 3 games, or win a bunch with a streak to the post season and win a super bowl at least once or twice every 20 years.  Because of that, no matter what happens Saturday, even if we were to lose by 4 points in overtime, Marvin should be fired if we lose and have a statue made of him if we win.  That's where we're at now.  And in hindsight, I was wrong and we really should've made a change long ago.  But I do hope this thread is forgotten about after Saturday night instead of blowing up.

(01-07-2016, 12:07 AM)GodFather Wrote: Big bowl of wrong your eating there. The Bengals should've never lost to the Jets in 09. Bengals were far superior and it was another classic blown "Lewis" game. I also believe the Bengals had a better team in 05 against the Steelers, hence taking Carson out to win. 

Th '09 Bengals were just lucky after Henry went down with injury and our passing game disappeared.  After we beat the Steelers in week 9 (without scoring an offensive td) our only wins were against the Browns (5-11), the Lions (2-14), and the Chiefs (4-12) and it took a td in the final 2 minutes to pull out that win against Kansas City at home.  We went 0-5 against the rest of our opponents getting outscored 138-65.  Meanwhile the Jets had both the #1 defense and the #1 rushing game in the entire league.

In '05 we would have had a good chance aginst the Steelers if Carson and Henry had not been lost on the first drive, but without them the Steelers were clearly the better team.  that is whay they went on to win the Super Bowl.

(01-07-2016, 12:26 AM)West Union KennyG Wrote:   But I do hope this thread is forgotten about after Saturday night instead of blowing up.

Oh it's going to blow up like a 1970's hooker in Times Square!

Hey guys,saw there was a lot of activity in here so I was just stopping by to ask where I could find a good conversation about Marvin Lewis. If someone could point me in the general direction of a good thread it would be appreciated. Thanks.

(01-07-2016, 12:24 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Considering Mike Zimmer and Jay Gruden are both in the playoffs and Hue Jackson is a top candidate for other HC positions..do i really have to answer the question?

Sorry, but I just don't think we should replace Marvin with a coach who has never had a winning season.

When you go 4-12 you can gamble on a guy because you have nothing to lose, but when you have a guy who is winning more games than almost any other coach in the league you don't dump him without a proven upgrade.........unless we come out flat and look like Shit Saturday.  Then I agree that he has to go.

(01-07-2016, 12:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry, but I just don't think we should replace Marvin with a coach who has never had a winning season.

When you go 4-12 you can gamble on a guy because you have nothing to lose, but when you have a guy who is winning more games than almost any other coach in the league you don't dump him without a proven upgrade.........unless we come out flat and look like Shit Saturday.  Then I agree that he has to go.

The 2 previously mentioned coaches hadn't won any games before doing what they are doing. Also, do you realize that by saying  the other teams were simply better than us in previous PO games and therefore should have beaten us.. is also a knock against Marvin? Because he was/is after all the HEAD COACH. Jeez. Where did you get your blinders man I need some.

(01-07-2016, 12:38 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: . Also, do you realize that by saying  the other teams were simply better than us in previous PO games and therefore should have beaten us.. is also a knock against Marvin? Because he was/is after all the HEAD COACH. Jeez. Where did you get your blinders man I need some.

Coaches need talent.  There is not a single coach out there who wins without talented players.  You can't judge a coach without considering the players he has to work with.

If you do not realize this then you are the one wearing blinders.

(01-07-2016, 12:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches need talent.  There is not a single coach out there who wins without talented players.  You can't judge a coach without considering the players he has to work with.

If you do not realize this then you are the one wearing blinders.

Talent needs coaches. Belichick wins all the time with less talent. How can you say we don't/didn't have talented players when we have made it to the PO's 5 years in a row? We were favored in 3 PO games. What is Marvin's PO/PT record again? What has Marvin done to make you think he is the guy to take us to the SB? Where are you coming from fred, why are you so afraid of change? Why does it feel like I am talking to Mike Brown? Are you Mike Brown fred? 

(01-07-2016, 01:15 AM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Talent needs coaches. Belichick wins all the time with less talent. How can you say we don't/didn't have talented players when we have made it to the PO's 5 years in a row? We were favored in 3 PO games. What is Marvin's PO/PT record again? What has Marvin done to make you think he is the guy to take us to the SB? Where are you coming from fred, why are you so afraid of change? Why does it feel like I am talking to Mike Brown? Are you Mike Brown fred? 

I have no problem with change if we can hire Belichick, but he did not even make the playoffs the one season that Brady was injured.  And if does not need talent why are the Pats only 2-4 since they started getting hit by injuries?  Over the last decade his teams have featured dozens of Pro Bowl and All Pro players.

Why don't you go back and read what I actually said instead of just spewing this same old nonsense.  It has been proven over and over again in this league that change just for the sake of change rarely works.  There have been a few rare exceptions, but generally you don't get a coach who wins as much as Marvin from the roster of unemployed coaches.  So I have no problem with change as long as it is a proven upgrade.  But I have a problem with change just for the sake of change becaue the history of the NFL proves that it rarely works.

It's hard to win with a backup QB. Yes it's been done before but it's not easy. There is reason why we are a 3 point underdog headed into saturday's game.

(01-06-2016, 10:37 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: 2. Bait. Not taking it. Grow up

If you didn't take it you would not have told be to grow up.