(06-18-2024, 06:25 PM)Mer Wrote: How many years was Boling here before he developed into a good Guard? I don't remember him being all that great when we first drafted him.

Everyone and their mother said that Boling was a long-term player, as he was notoriously underweight in his rookie year, despite being a great technician.

Fast forward to his 2nd year, Travelle Wharton started the year, but got hurt in like the second snap of the first PS game? May be misremembering, but it was VERY early into TC.

Boling took over and didn't relinquish the starting job until he retired.

(06-19-2024, 11:28 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Everyone and their mother said that Boling was a long-term player, as he was notoriously underweight in his rookie year, despite being a great technician.

Travelle Wharton started the year, but got hurt in like the second snap of the first PS game? May be misremembering, but it was VERY early into TC.

Boling took over and didn't relinquish the starting job until he retired.

Yep Wharton was our "big" free agent signing that year. Pretty sure he was replacing the pariah Nate Livings... Or was it Livingston?

The thing about Volson is I hope we don't hear his name called during games unless it's blowing holes for Moss and Brown. Offensive line guys who do their job well just kind of fit in the woodwork. Stuffing pass rushers? That's not the stuff announcers get all excited about. They get excited about big run plays or sacks.. I'm fine hearing about big holes for RBs, but nothing else. The less we hear his name the better he's likely doing. 
Kind of hoping Geno Stone can carry on what he did in Baltimore last year and get 6 more INTs instead of a mere 7. While thinking about saftys I hope Carolina didn't break Vonn Bell. 

(06-18-2024, 01:01 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: we're still pushing this Volson will "take the next step" narrative? Enough.

I never said he will.
But it's not out of the ordinary for a Day 3 pick to take a few years.
Volson is only going into his 3rd year.
It's the Bengals' fault for thrusting him into a starting role immediately as a rookie.
He wasn't ready for that, and it showed.

(06-19-2024, 09:00 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would think everyone that makes SB love their chances with a 50% chance of winning.. lol

I'm a bit selfish. I want us to have a 99% chance of winning the super bowl. I'm gonna hold my breath and not breath again till we do win it. 

(06-19-2024, 12:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I never said he will.
But it's not out of the ordinary for a Day 3 pick to take a few years.
Volson is only going into his 3rd year.
It's the Bengals' fault for thrusting him into a starting role immediately as a rookie.
He wasn't ready for that, and it showed.

His rookie year Bengals felt he was the best option to start at LG. Fast forward to year 3 coming up, Bengals had 2 years to get another starting LG, but did not go after one in the draft or FA. Either we trust FO and coaching staff, or we don't to build our roster. We had 10 picks in 2024, f we felt a better guard was available, why did we not choose early in the draft?

Maybe, just maybe the coaches and FO know more than the fans in this forum.

It isn't like they have not been scrutinized for OL play since Burrow was drafted.

(06-18-2024, 10:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't rely on PFF, I do often use them to support what I see. After 2 years in the NFL I've seen Volson be among the worst starting NFL olinemen in the league. 

Yours or anyone else's anecdotal declarations to the opposite do not change that.

Volson is big, athletic, durable, and hard-working. He's just not very good.

3 outta 4 ain't bad.

Think back to 22 and Adeniji, Hopkins and the rest of the stellar offensive line Volson was kind of the least of the problems. Sure, he wasn't great, but he wasn't Adeniji great.  

(06-19-2024, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: His rookie year Bengals felt he was the best option to start at LG. Fast forward to year 3 coming up, Bengals had 2 years to get another starting LG, but did not go after one in the draft or FA. Either we trust FO and coaching staff, or we don't to build our roster. We had 10 picks in 2024, f we felt a better guard was available, why did we not choose early in the draft?

Maybe, just maybe the coaches and FO know more than the fans in this forum.

It isn't like they have not been scrutinized for OL play since Burrow was drafted.

And/Or maybe the coaches and FO know that there might be some growing pains for a player and still want to put them out there because they think it's the best way to develop.

It could be that during Volson's rookie year, they actually expected Carman to cover LG but he got beaten out by Volson. That doesn't necessarily mean Volson was good, just looked better than what other options they had at the time.
And then going into the 2023 season, they might have felt Volson was "ok enough" to instead invest in other areas of need and see how much (further) he would develop in Year 2.
Same thing with Year 3, which is typically a make-or-break year for young players.

At the end of the day, here are the stats for Volson and the guy who manned the position in 2021, Quinton Spain:
2021 Spain - 5 sacks allowed, 23 total pressures allowed on 995 offensive snaps played in the regular season. Another 2 sacks, 7 total pressures allowed in 257 snaps in the postseason.

2022 Volson - 5 sacks, 38 total pressures allowed on 1107 offensive snaps played in the regular season. Another 5 total pressures (0 sacks) allowed in 198 offensive snaps played in the postseason. Still quite a large jump in total pressures allowed compared to Spain the year prior.

2023 Volson - 5 sacks, 38 total pressures allowed on 1087 offensive snaps played in the regular season. No postseason.
While Volson's sacks and total pressures allowed were identical for each of the regular seasons and still higher than Spain's 2021, a look into the game-by-game breakdown last year shows the following...
First 8 games - 3 sacks, 24 total pressures allowed
Last 9 games - 2 sacks, 14 total pressures allowed
He did get better in the 2nd half of last year compared to the first half.

I still feel that Volson was thrust into a starting role too early and wanted a proven veteran starting with Volson as a backup.
However, I am not denying his improvement in the 2nd half of last year and hope that he builds off that for the entirety of this season.

(06-19-2024, 02:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And/Or maybe the coaches and FO know that there might be some growing pains for a player and still want to put them out there because they think it's the best way to develop.

It could be that during Volson's rookie year, they actually expected Carman to cover LG but he got beaten out by Volson. That doesn't necessarily mean Volson was good, just looked better than what other options they had at the time.
And then going into the 2023 season, they might have felt Volson was "ok enough" to instead invest in other areas of need and see how much (further) he would develop in Year 2.
Same thing with Year 3, which is typically a make-or-break year for young players.

At the end of the day, here are the stats for Volson and the guy who manned the position in 2021, Quinton Spain:
2021 Spain - 5 sacks allowed, 23 total pressures allowed on 995 offensive snaps played in the regular season. Another 2 sacks, 7 total pressures allowed in 257 snaps in the postseason.

2022 Volson - 5 sacks, 38 total pressures allowed on 1107 offensive snaps played in the regular season. Another 5 total pressures (0 sacks) allowed in 198 offensive snaps played in the postseason. Still quite a large jump in total pressures allowed compared to Spain the year prior.

2023 Volson - 5 sacks, 38 total pressures allowed on 1087 offensive snaps played in the regular season. No postseason.
While Volson's sacks and total pressures allowed were identical for each of the regular seasons and still higher than Spain's 2021, a look into the game-by-game breakdown last year shows the following...
First 8 games - 3 sacks, 24 total pressures allowed
Last 9 games - 2 sacks, 14 total pressures allowed
He did get better in the 2nd half of last year compared to the first half.

I still feel that Volson was thrust into a starting role too early and wanted a proven veteran starting with Volson as a backup.
However, I am not denying his improvement in the 2nd half of last year and hope that he builds off that for the entirety of this season.

"ok enough" is a good way to not win super bowls. 

(06-19-2024, 11:59 AM)jason Wrote: Yep Wharton was our "big" free agent signing that year. Pretty sure he was replacing the pariah Nate Livings... Or was it Livingston?

Livings it was. Wasn't a world beater, but he got flayed alive a lot more than he should have: he was a solid LG.

Edit my original post to mention that the Wharton year was 2012, Boling's SECOND season.

(06-19-2024, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: His rookie year Bengals felt he was the best option to start at LG. Fast forward to year 3 coming up, Bengals had 2 years to get another starting LG, but did not go after one in the draft or FA. Either we trust FO and coaching staff, or we don't to build our roster. We had 10 picks in 2024, f we felt a better guard was available, why did we not choose early in the draft?

Maybe, just maybe the coaches and FO know more than the fans in this forum.

It isn't like they have not been scrutinized for OL play since Burrow was drafted.

Quite possible; although I HIGHLY doubt there were no guards better than Volson in the 2024 NFL Drsft; hell IMO there's better ones currently on the street., but what I do know is every FA Olineman that has come here under Pollack's tenure has gotten worse. Maybe, just maybe Frank Pollack is a poor oline coach.

Here's bfine's "Mark my words":  Jackson Carman will be a starting NFL olineman in 2025. IMo he's better than Volson. It's facts that he's younger than Volson and earned a higher pff score his rookie year than Volson did. 

(06-19-2024, 02:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: "ok enough" is a good way to not win super bowls. 

There are many ways to not win Super Bowls.

Gotta pick your spots to prioritize each year.

There were a handful of IOL I would have pulled the trigger on in the draft instead of some of the picks the Bengals made, but it is what it is.

(06-19-2024, 03:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: There are many ways to not win Super Bowls.

Gotta pick your spots to prioritize each year.

There were a handful of IOL I would have pulled the trigger on in the draft instead of some of the picks the Bengals made, but it is what it is.

I agree 100% and if they choose LG as the spot to "skimp" so be it. It's just no one is going to convince me he's been a good LG or at age 26 going to start his Pro Bowl career. 

At crunch time, I'm wondering if Trent Brown takes over the guard spot (or Mims?) and we roll like that for a series or three.

The three that need to improve the most are DJ Turner, Miles Murphy and whoever our WR3 is (competing against the bar that Boyd set). If we get improvement in those three people, we are going to be much better. BTW I think it's a given our safety play will be better with Stone Bell and Battle.

The defensive coaches have been high on Joseph Ossai during interviews this off-season.

(06-19-2024, 07:16 PM)Synric Wrote: The defensive coaches have been high on Joseph Ossai during interviews this off-season.

Much different than when they were down on him last off-season. 

(06-18-2024, 11:08 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Yet only his 3rd year.

That's not a good thing at all if you're 26 in your third year and not good. 

cordell volson future all pro