(07-31-2024, 02:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Moss is not know as a pass catcher, that is area where I think Brown will get more reps

Chase Brown wasn't known as a pass catcher either until his significant improvement in the Offseason.

(07-31-2024, 10:41 AM)jason Wrote: I think Chase Brown is gonna be the guy with Moss coming in on 3rd down for pass protection.

(07-31-2024, 12:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I get that and I believe that. Many of us believe we've been guilty of being too predictable in the past. And I think it's somewhat true.

But I also believe some of that is just because we watch every snap, pretty much and we gain insight into what they're likely to do by default. And I also think the limitations of the line in past seasons hasn't allowed us to run the whole playbook.

I believe they will run a good bit of under center stuff this year and I'm hoping a solid running game along with some RB wheel routes and screens will take away some of that predictability. And this is why I think Brown will be getting a good bit of snaps and touches.

I was told until they can prove they can run the ball and demand legitimate RPO’s it’s not happening. Maybe play action but the rush ends aren’t paying a lick of attention to our run game and until they get burned they aren’t making Joey vulnerable.

I think the usage will start the season close to even.

I think by the end of the seson Chase Brown will win the lead back role (this is purely speculation based on my talent evaluation).

Moss will certainly be great in pass protection for us and is an incredibly efficient runner.

I expect great things for both backs this year, giving the Bengals Offense the balance it has failed to attain at times with Mixon.

A major contributor to an effective running game is the health and talent of the offensive line this year.
This is the deepest the offense has been (at all positions) the past few years so I expect great things.

(07-31-2024, 02:59 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Moss is not know as a pass catcher, that is area where I think Brown will get more reps

Zack Moss had 27 rec last year for 192 rec yards. On just 531 offensive snaps because he had to share reps with Jonathan Taylor.

While not a prevalent pass catcher like Austin Ekeler, he's shown he can catch and be productive when given opportunity.
Moss has two seasons with 20+ receptions.
He also had two seasons in college with nearly 30 receptions.

Brown's YPR last year was 11.1 while Moss's was 7.1.
Joe Mixon averaged 7.2 last year.

I would have been more worried about Moss's ability in the passing game had he had 10 or less receptions every year.
I'd say Moss is "ok" as a pass catcher, but Brown is definitely more explosive - both as a runner and receiver.

(07-31-2024, 03:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Zack Moss had 27 rec last year for 192 rec yards. On just 531 offensive snaps because he had to share reps with Jonathan Taylor.

While not a prevalent pass catcher like Austin Ekeler, he's shown he can catch and be productive when given opportunity.
Moss has two seasons with 20+ receptions.
He also had two seasons in college with nearly 30 receptions.

Brown's YPR last year was 11.1 while Moss's was 7.1.
Joe Mixon averaged 7.2 last year.

I would have been more worried about Moss's ability in the passing game had he had 10 or less receptions every year.
I'd say Moss is "ok" as a pass catcher, but Brown is definitely more explosive - both as a runner and receiver.

Spot on about Zack Moss. He is an okay pass catcher.

Did you watch the vids of Chase Brown and Iosivas that were presented in another thread awhile back?

It was insane how both of them improved so much in a couple months. Chase Brown went from hesitant and nonexplosive to 
extremely crisp and showtime explosive in such a short time. I am expecting big things from Chase Brown this year for this very
reason. Zack Moss we have to remember ran behind a much better OL in Indy. I am sure we will be much better this season but 
this has to be taken into account with Moss.

Moss's pass protection is why he fits this Offense so much and will be very valuable to us IMO. Best pass pro back last season.

I think we are still putting too much on the label "starter".

What exactly is the definition we are using this label for? The back that is in on the first snap of the game? The back that ends the game or season with the most touches? It is sounding like fans are going to need some time to get used to not having a bell cow back.

(07-31-2024, 06:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we are still putting too much on the label "starter".

What exactly is the definition we are using this label for? The back that is in on the first snap of the game? The back that ends the game or season with the most touches? It is sounding like fans are going to need some time to get used to not having a bell cow back.

Good points, this is going to be much different than the Mixon days we are all used to.

Believe it will be Moss to begin the season with Chase emerging quickly though and taking over the lions share within the first 4 games. Would think along with the traditional RB duty for Brown Zac will find ways to get the ball to Brown in open space for big plays.

(07-31-2024, 03:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Zack Moss had 27 rec last year for 192 rec yards. On just 531 offensive snaps because he had to share reps with Jonathan Taylor.

While not a prevalent pass catcher like Austin Ekeler, he's shown he can catch and be productive when given opportunity.
Moss has two seasons with 20+ receptions.
He also had two seasons in college with nearly 30 receptions.

Brown's YPR last year was 11.1 while Moss's was 7.1.
Joe Mixon averaged 7.2 last year.

I would have been more worried about Moss's ability in the passing game had he had 10 or less receptions every year.
I'd say Moss is "ok" as a pass catcher, but Brown is definitely more explosive - both as a runner and receiver.

The difference is route tree. Zach Moss is limited just swing, stops, flats, and maybe a sneak route. With Chase Brown your thinking option into a whip, flat into a wheel, bench/corner option, then just straight slot WR concepts when in 5 wide.


Side note off topic: With Andrei Iosivas seeing the slot reps that could get the Bengals some size as a blocker in that role. At 6'3 205/210 32' arms Yoshi could be an outstanding screen blocker which the Bengals need badly. I've seen them run RB screens 2 or 3 times in camp already with Brown and we know they like rhe RPO screens to Chase Mims, All, and Yoshi inside as a screen space blockers could be a completely new wrinkle for rhe offense.

(08-01-2024, 08:59 AM)Synric Wrote: The difference is route tree. Zach Moss is limited just swing, stops, flats, and maybe a sneak route. With Chase Brown your thinking option into a whip, flat into a wheel, bench/corner option, then just straight slot WR concepts when in 5 wide.


Side note off topic: With Andrei Iosivas seeing the slot reps that could get the Bengals some size as a blocker in that role. At 6'3 205/210 32' arms Yoshi could be an outstanding screen blocker which the Bengals need badly. I've seen them run RB screens 2 or 3 times in camp already with Brown and we know they like rhe RPO screens to Chase Mims, All, and Yoshi inside as a screen space blockers could be a completely new wrinkle for rhe offense.

Interesting point about Iosivas potentially being a blocker. He does have the physical tools, but does he have that instinct for physicality?

(07-31-2024, 06:07 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think we are still putting too much on the label "starter".

What exactly is the definition we are using this label for? The back that is in on the first snap of the game? The back that ends the game or season with the most touches? It is sounding like fans are going to need some time to get used to not having a bell cow back.

I actually agree with you. It's doesn't matter who starts.

(07-31-2024, 03:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Chase Brown wasn't known as a pass catcher either until his significant improvement in the Offseason.

im not sure about that, his draft profile on a few sites, referenced him as a player with pass catching skills, as any back im sure he adjusted and improved with nfl level, and with what he shown when he got some playing time end of year, i feel he is probably more likely to be our pass catching back plus  he looks to have more upside compared to Moss who has been in the league for 4 years.

I'm just glad we won't see Mixon running for the edge and never getting outside the defense. With Brown, I think he can beat them to the edge and make the turn upfield.

(08-01-2024, 08:59 AM)Synric Wrote: The difference is route tree. Zach Moss is limited just swing, stops, flats, and maybe a sneak route. With Chase Brown your thinking option into a whip, flat into a wheel, bench/corner option, then just straight slot WR concepts when in 5 wide.


Side note off topic: With Andrei Iosivas seeing the slot reps that could get the Bengals some size as a blocker in that role. At 6'3 205/210 32' arms Yoshi could be an outstanding screen blocker which the Bengals need badly. I've seen them run RB screens 2 or 3 times in camp already with Brown and we know they like rhe RPO screens to Chase Mims, All, and Yoshi inside as a screen space blockers could be a completely new wrinkle for rhe offense.

Great post, that is why Zack Moss is just an okay pass catcher, he doesn't have the wide route tree that a player like Chase Brown 
could have with his quicks and speed in and out of breaks. Also a good thought on Iosivas with his size and strength blocking on 
screens. Would love to see this wrinkle with Mims and All blocking out in front of Chase Brown.

(08-01-2024, 10:34 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: im not sure about that, his draft profile on a few sites, referenced him as a player with pass catching skills, as any back im sure he adjusted and improved with nfl level, and with what he shown when he got some playing time end of year, i feel he is probably more likely to be our pass catching back plus  he looks to have more upside compared to Moss who has been in the league for 4 years.

I mean, Chase Brown was okay at catching the ball at Illinois, but I certainly couldn't help in seeing the immense difference early in the 
Offseason to a couple months later in the vids that were provided in the Chase Brown/Iosivas thread. It was drastic.

I have a ton more confidence in Chase Brown being a pass catching threat now.

(08-01-2024, 10:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm just glad we won't see Mixon running for the edge and never getting outside the defense. With Brown, I think he can beat them to the edge and make the turn upfield.

So true, no more of that shit, so frustrating seeing a RB just forget what he was and trying to be something that he was not.

We just need our RB's to square their shoulders and head up field instead of that East/West stuff that Mixon was always trying to do.

Chase Brown actually has the speed to get to the outside like you say.

My question with RBs this season is.. will they be able to convert on those 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 consistently?

(08-01-2024, 08:59 AM)Synric Wrote: The difference is route tree. Zach Moss is limited just swing, stops, flats, and maybe a sneak route. With Chase Brown your thinking option into a whip, flat into a wheel, bench/corner option, then just straight slot WR concepts when in 5 wide.


Side note off topic: With Andrei Iosivas seeing the slot reps that could get the Bengals some size as a blocker in that role. At 6'3 205/210 32' arms Yoshi could be an outstanding screen blocker which the Bengals need badly. I've seen them run RB screens 2 or 3 times in camp already with Brown and we know they like rhe RPO screens to Chase Mims, All, and Yoshi inside as a screen space blockers could be a completely new wrinkle for rhe offense.

Chase is running a lot of snaps as receiver. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Chase Brown shift to WR. Sample to blocking back then the 3 other WR Jamar, Tee, Burton or Isovias or some variation.

RB1 is likely Zach Moss for the simple reason that he is an effective, hard to bring down runner and also above average at pass protection (and a usable receiver too). As such we can run or pass without telegraphing the play by who is in the backfield.

Chase Brown had another big run today. We haven’t really had RB this explosive in open space since prime Gio.

(08-02-2024, 01:12 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase Brown had another big run today.  We haven’t really had RB this explosive in open space since prime Gio.

Come on, Nicomo. In preseason non-tackle practice that means very little. Lol

I need to see the Bengals actually effectively run the ball for a couple weeks before I believe it will magically just happen. We've been 24th, 27th, 26th, 29th, and 22nd in rushing YPC as a team in the ZT era. Granted that's been an issue for much longer than the ZT era, only being above-average as a team in rushing YPC in 4 of the last 20 seasons ('18, '14, '05, '04). I think we currently have the ~10th worst RB room in the league, so I don't expect much better rushing-wise, but at least they should be betting pass blocking with Moss and should be competent pass catching.

(08-02-2024, 03:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Come on, Nicomo. In preseason non-tackle practice that means very little. Lol

Eh, it’s still nice to see. Speed is speed. He was one of the fastest ball carriers in the league last season so the potential is obviously there.