and it's pretty obvious to most is.. establish a solid run game so Burrow and receivers can be effective. Doesn't have to be #1 in the league but a top 10 would be fine. And, second is be able to STOP the opposing run game so the D secondary isn't having to make most of the stops. If they can accomplish those two things it greatly increases their shot at winning the division and advancing.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Ideally. But this system will never be run friendly.

And letting Reader go was a tough blow to the run defense, so there's questions remaining regarding that.

2023 OFFENSE
31st Overall Rushing
22nd Rushing YPC

2023 DEFENSE
26th Overall Rushing
30th Rushing YPC

- - - - - - -

Don't see what moves they made that would completely 180 those.

(08-28-2024, 02:53 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: and it's pretty obvious to most is.. establish a solid run game so Burrow and receivers can be effective. Doesn't have to be #1 in the league but a top 10 would be fine. And, second is be able to STOP the opposing run game so the D secondary isn't having to make most of the stops. If they can accomplish those two things it greatly increases their shot at winning the division and advancing.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

You aren't wrong. Running the ball and stopping the run were our biggest problems last year besides giving up the big plays and of 
course the injuries to Burrow. This Offense would be nearly unstoppable with a decent running game to go along with our passing 
Offense. If teams have to respect the run look out.

2021 Rushing Offense (Super Bowl Year)
26th Overall Rushing
29th Rushing YPC

2021 Rushing Defense
5th Overall Rushing
T 13th (4 other teams) Rushing YPC

I don't think we have to be a great running team, but it would be nice to be efficient. I do think we need to be able to stop the run, but that said I think if we can at least limit our exposure to the big play on the ground or air we can manage.

(08-28-2024, 02:53 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: and it's pretty obvious to most is.. establish a solid run game so Burrow and receivers can be effective. Doesn't have to be #1 in the league but a top 10 would be fine. And, second is be able to STOP the opposing run game so the D secondary isn't having to make most of the stops. If they can accomplish those two things it greatly increases their shot at winning the division and advancing.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

While no one would be against this, no, we don't: it's not the 70s anymore.

Exactly, why a top 10 rush team would be terrific. Force the D to respect our run. Letting Burrow do what he does. How many times last year alone did we fail to pick up a 1st on 3rd and a yard or 4 and short? Too many times.

(08-28-2024, 03:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 2023 OFFENSE
31st Overall Rushing
22nd Rushing YPC

2023 DEFENSE
26th Overall Rushing
30th Rushing YPC

- - - - - - -

Don't see what moves they made that would completely 180 those.

Adding Trent Brown and Mims along with the rest of the OL gaining chemistry could get our running game on track yah never know.

Also communication and tackling were our biggest problems in stopping the run on Defense, bringing back Vonn Bell should help and
Rankins was a very good run stopper when he was with the Jets and was asked to stop the run. Sam Hubbard and Logan Wilson were
hurt last season, surely could help with them healthy again.

(08-28-2024, 03:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: 2021 Rushing Offense (Super Bowl Year)
26th Overall Rushing
29th Rushing YPC

2021 Rushing Defense
5th Overall Rushing
T 13th (4 other teams) Rushing YPC

I don't think we have to be a great running team, but it would be nice to be efficient. I do think we need to be able to stop the run, but that said I think if we can at least limit our exposure to the big play on the ground or air we can manage.

Great point. As long as we can get back to somewhere that close at stopping the run on Defense we should be okay. If the Offense 
can score a lot of points it could make opposing Offenses go away from trying to run the ball as well.

(08-28-2024, 03:14 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: While no one would be against this, no, we don't: it's not the 70s anymore.

Are you saying we don't need a solid run game? You might be right but it would sure take some of the pressure off Burrow and the pass game. And if Zac and the coaches build this team to be a pass happy offense without a solid run game it seems to be a mistake. Other teams seem to have good run games. It's almost Zac and the O don't think it's important and rely TOO much on Burrow saving the game.

(08-28-2024, 03:09 PM)Au165 Wrote: 2021 Rushing Offense (Super Bowl Year)
26th Overall Rushing
29th Rushing YPC

2021 Rushing Defense
5th Overall Rushing
T 13th (4 other teams) Rushing YPC

I don't think we have to be a great running team, but it would be nice to be efficient. I do think we need to be able to stop the run, but that said I think if we can at least limit our exposure to the big play on the ground or air we can manage.

I don't expect a huge jump in rush offense but hoping to make up that production from the RB room in the passing offense. I would love to see Burrow with a Kevin Faulk, Danny Woodhead, James White type of back hoping that's Chase Brown.

(08-28-2024, 02:53 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: and it's pretty obvious to most is.. establish a solid run game so Burrow and receivers can be effective. Doesn't have to be #1 in the league but a top 10 would be fine. And, second is be able to STOP the opposing run game so the D secondary isn't having to make most of the stops. If they can accomplish those two things it greatly increases their shot at winning the division and advancing.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I have about 0 confidence in this Bengals staff to turn a bottom-third running game into a Top 10 one.
This offense revolves around Burrow's arm, and it's not going to change while Zac Taylor is the HC.

On top of that, how many teams end up having both a Top 10 passing and rushing attack? I feel like that's extremely rare (at least nowadays).
I haven't gone to look across the teams to back that claim by anything factual though. Just thinking off the top of my head.

I think top 10 is pretty unrealistic. I would however like to see a way more effective run game than we've had in a bunch of games these last few years.

(08-28-2024, 03:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I have about 0 confidence in this Bengals staff to turn a bottom-third running game into a Top 10 one.
This offense revolves around Burrow's arm, and it's not going to change while Zac Taylor is the HC.

On top of that, how many teams end up having both a Top 10 passing and rushing attack? I feel like that's extremely rare (at least nowadays).
I haven't gone to look across the teams to back that claim by anything factual though. Just thinking off the top of my head.

Middle of the pack would be fine as far as the running game and using the RB in the passing game can be an extension of the running 
game. I am with Synric in hoping Chase Brown can be a Kevin Faulk type of RB for us.

(08-28-2024, 03:18 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Are you saying we don't need a solid run game? You might be right but it would sure take some of the pressure off Burrow and the pass game. And if Zac and the coaches build this team to be a pass happy offense without a solid run game it seems to be a mistake. Other teams seem to have good run games. It's almost Zac and the O don't think it's important and rely TOO much on Burrow saving the game.

Top 10 in rushing is a yardage based stat the Bengals eith the heavy pass scheme are probabaly not going to give thr RB room enough rushing attempts to get there but that doesn't mean they can't be efficient. In 2022 the Bengals were one of the most efficient rushing teams.

During Joe Burrow's pre-season drive this year the Bengals had the balls to go empty for a play. That should tell you exactly who they are as an offense lol.

(08-28-2024, 03:18 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Are you saying we don't need a solid run game? You might be right but it would sure take some of the pressure off Burrow and the pass game. And if Zac and the coaches build this team to be a pass happy offense without a solid run game it seems to be a mistake. Other teams seem to have good run games. It's almost Zac and the O don't think it's important and rely TOO much on Burrow saving the game.

"Establishing the run," is what we don't need to do. As AU said, just be efficient when you do run, not need to establish the run first or become a running team.

Compliment to the offense's strength.

(08-28-2024, 03:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: "Establishing the run," is what we don't need to do. As AU said, just be efficient when you do run, not need to establish the run first or become a running team.

Compliment to the offense's strength.

I'll go for this.   


And on defense being a middle of the pack run stopping team would be enough.  I do not want the other team to control the clock and demoralize and exhaust our players.  There is a psychological price to pay for letting a team just drive down the field.    I realize there is also a psychological factor to driving down the field to be held to 3 or 0 points.  But snuffing their drives is a more potent formula.

Baltimore almost beat us in the playoff game because we could not stop their offense.  They just bludgeoned us down the field and we were a turnover away from losing the game.  We have to do better than that.  

(08-28-2024, 03:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: "Establishing the run," is what we don't need to do. As AU said, just be efficient when you do run, not need to establish the run first or become a running team.

Compliment to the offense's strength.

I can't fully agree with that line of thinking. By not at least running often enough to force defenses to respect the threat of the run, you're putting your OL in a very precarious position. Also, some rhythm has to be established with the run, that way when you need that critical 3rd or 4th and short, you can have confidence on your OL getting that yard or two.

They rebuilt the DT room specifically with being better against the run in mind. Jenkins was an elite run defender in college and the best scoring DT on run defense in the draft. Rankins is capable against the run. So is Hill. Jackson likewise has high run stopping upside. The reason it looks thin right now is Jackson is rehabbing. Tufele will need to be our stopgap there. At Edge Hubbard is upper tier run defense. Murphy is already solid at this. Johnson is raw but has the tools. Hendrickson is weak against the run. Another veteran NT would be a good thing but you can see their focus is retooling the DL.

Run offense has more than one cause. The major one is probably the mismatch between player and scheme we had at RB. The Texans run a scheme better suited to Mixon's strengths. This is why I expect he will be good for them. On the other hand Moss is a far better scheme fit for us. He should do well for us. I would like to see another RB here in a thumper mold but again you can see here the focus is aligning player and scheme.

(08-28-2024, 04:15 PM)Joelist Wrote: They rebuilt the DT room specifically with being better against the run in mind. Jenkins was an elite run defender in college and the best scoring DT on run defense in the draft. Rankins is capable against the run. So is Hill. Jackson likewise has high run stopping upside. The reason it looks thin right now is Jackson is rehabbing. Tufele will need to be our stopgap there. At Edge Hubbard is upper tier run defense. Murphy is already solid at this. Johnson is raw but has the tools. Hendrickson is weak against the run. Another veteran NT would be a good thing but you can see their focus is retooling the DL.

Run offense has more than one cause. The major one is probably the mismatch between player and scheme we had at RB. The Texans run a scheme better suited to Mixon's strengths. This is why I expect he will be good for them. On the other hand Moss is a far better scheme fit for us. He should do well for us. I would like to see another RB here in a thumper mold but again you can see here the focus is aligning player and scheme.

Rankins is defitniely a pass rushing DT, his run stop game has been shaky the last few seasons.

I agree that Jenkins showed promise.

I expect very, very little from Jackson this entire season.

(08-28-2024, 03:38 PM)Synric Wrote: Top 10 in rushing is a yardage based stat the Bengals eith the heavy pass scheme are probabaly not going to give thr RB room enough rushing attempts to get there but that doesn't mean they can't be efficient. In 2022 the Bengals were one of the most efficient rushing teams.

During Joe Burrow's pre-season drive this year the Bengals had the balls to go empty for a play. That should tell you exactly who they are as an offense lol.

Yep.

Look at the Chiefs, who have been overall the best team in the past 4-5 years:

2023 rushing:
25th in attempts
19th in yards

2022 rushing:
25th in attempts
20th in yards

2021 rushing:
20th in attempts
16th in yards

2020 rushing:
23rd in attempts
16th in yards

2019 rushing:
27th in attempts
23rd in yards

Won 3 out of 5 Super Bowls, played in 4.

They aren't sitting there focusing on running a lot more. They know their strength is the passing game, and they're finding ways to make their rushing attack efficient and productive from a YPA perspective. That's what the Bengals need to figure out if anything.