(09-17-2024, 08:45 PM)PDub80 Wrote: No. I think the Bengals OC/HC not only lacks creativity, but also fails to understand how a consistent threat/production run game would free up his WRs.... Currently teams sacrifice a S or extra DB to follow Chase around instead of staying home in case run support is needed.

It's really kind of pathetic to see how Taylor cannot do the math on this stuff. 

This is definitely a big part of it. Everything is so much harder for this offense because no one respects their running game.

JaMarr Chase has not peaked and is easily still a top 10 WR in the NFL. But if we want to point blame on why he's off to a slow start IDT the dude who has called the offense over Jamarr's last 3 years is the place to point your finger.

I'd look to point it at a dude who missed the whole Preseason because he "didn't ask for an extension". Compound that with not having a viable option on the other side of him and 10 catches for 97 yards and 0 TDs is what you get.

Of course, this is just me showing my Jamarr "hate" because he DOESN'T NEED:

Training Camp
Practice
Tee taking away yards/catches from him
A great QB

Average depth of target this year for Chase is 5.5 yards (it was 12.6 in 2021). Our offense is just pathetic.

Burrow intended air yards per attempt...
2020: 8.5
2021: 8.1
2022: 6.8
2023: 6.3
2024: 6.0

By the end of his career with Zac at this rate, Burrow will be throwing passes exclusively behind the LoS.

(09-17-2024, 09:06 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Zac and Burrow are addicted to the pass game and refuse to kick the habit. Pacheco himself had 19 carries against us Sunday. 19/90 yds at 4.73 per and 5 catches for 21 yds. They get him the ball often.  But I see he is now hurt.

They sure as hell are those SOB’s paying super attention to run game efficiency numbers. How dare they have to rely on short passes to make up for crap run blocking . I mean why would KC run behind Thuney, Smith, and Humphrey all with substantial better PFF run blocking grades. How dare them.

Both the tape and the next gen stats showed Chase was open a lot against the Pats. He had the 2nd most separation of any WR in week 1. He also should have had a game winning TD had Burrow actually seen him. That one was on Joe.

I dont know if Chase has peaked but his best season stat wise is his rookie season. His 2nd and 3rd were not as good. His 4th season is yet to be determined but his attitude seems concerning. Yes Chase gets double teamed a lot but so do all the other top WRs.

(09-17-2024, 09:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They sure as hell are those SOB’s paying super attention to run game efficiency numbers. How dare they have to rely on short passes to make up for crap run blocking . I mean why would KC run behind Thuney, Smith, and Humphrey all with substantial better PFF run blocking grades. How dare them.

And your point is? Preach to somebody else. If these Bengals can't run block in this league they may as well give it up.

(09-17-2024, 09:54 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont know if Chase has peaked but his best season stat wise is his rookie season.   His 2nd and 3rd were not as good.  His 4th season is yet to be determined but his attitude seems concerning.  Yes Chase gets double teamed a lot but so do all the other top WRs.

His second season was fine- the only reason why his numbers were down is because he missed 5 games. The dude averaged 87 yards per a game and had 9 Tds in 2022. Per a 17 game basis that is 1,479 with 13 touchdowns. 

Last season he still produced but with Joe being ineffective his first 4 games and then getting hurt derailed Chase season. Still he put up 1,200 yards and 7 Tds.

As for this season; he hasn't been getting the same amount of targets as he is used to and he is missing Tee. With that being said he has caught 10 of 11 of the passes thrown to him.

(09-17-2024, 10:10 PM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: And your point is? Preach to somebody else. If these Bengals can't run block in this league they may as well give it up.

They are all invested in maximizing the offense. My point is simple. They get great efficiency numbers to look at then they look at the flow of the game. The way teams are playing them a running attack would really help. I agree but we just aren’t very good at it. Look at Joe Mixon balling out at Houston. He’s avg 4.7 ypc and is 7th in rushing.

We don't have a Pacheco but our backs don't really get a chance. Seems like Zac or Joe will get a few good runs then abandon it and go back to pass or bust. Our O line isn't KC's line no, and I just don't understand why they don't use the run game more. If I remember right Mixon had 30 carries with 159 yds last week but only 20 some yards Sunday. Didn't watch their game so don't know what their game plan was but did he ever get 30 carries a game here?

(09-17-2024, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: JaMarr Chase has not peaked and is easily still a top 10 WR in the NFL. But if we want to point blame on why he's off to a slow start IDT the dude who has called the offense over Jamarr's last 3 years is the place to point your finger.

I'd look to point it at a dude who missed the whole Preseason because he "didn't ask for an extension". Compound that with not having a viable option on the other side of him and 10 catches for 97 yards and 0 TDs is what you get.

Of course, this is just me showing my Jamarr "hate" because he DOESN'T NEED:

Training Camp
Practice
Tee taking away yards/catches from him
A great QB

Yeah I think Chase not practicing in camp and his overall contract situation probably has affected him. I think this thread idea is obviously reactionary to being 0-2. We are only 2 games into the season and while Burrow had a full camp he is coming back from an injury and has been away from actual games for an extended time. I think Chases lack of production really just boils down to three things in these past two games.
1: Burrow struggling week 1.
2: The Chiefs gave him tight double coverage for a lot of the game. 
3: No Higgins. Not only for taking some of the coverage but keeping drives alive and giving everyone more opportunities to make plays.

(09-17-2024, 10:32 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I think Chase not practicing in camp and his overall contract situation probably has affected him. I think this thread idea is obviously reactionary to being 0-2. We are only 2 games into the season and while Burrow had a full camp he is coming back from an injury and has been away from actual games for an extended time. I think Chases lack of production really just boils down to three things in these past two games.
1: Burrow struggling week 1.
2: The Chiefs gave him tight double coverage for a lot of the game. 
3: No Higgins. Not only for taking some of the coverage but keeping drives alive and giving everyone more opportunities to make plays.

Good reply just add

4: JaMarr Chase

and we are in agreement

(09-17-2024, 09:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is definitely a big part of it. Everything is so much harder for this offense because no one respects their running game.

Yep. And their formations kind of tip plays off.

I thought they would fix that at some point, but they didn't.

.....

I don't think you realize how much teams are focusing on taking Chase out of the game. He is doubled up and the defense has their eyes on him on every play.

It opens up a lot for other guys.

(09-17-2024, 10:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't think you realize how much teams are focusing on taking Chase out of the game. He is doubled up and the defense has their eyes on him on every play.

It opens up a lot for other guys.

You would think that would be obvious to the most casual fan.

The #1 reason for Chase's lack of targets is on Joe Burrow.  

Not that Joe is doing anything bad, but he is NOT going to throw to a double covered or heavily bracketed receiver.  Joe relishes in making the right decision to counter the defense's plan.  Joe can process faster than most.  He doesnt have to force feed Chase like they have Jefferson.

That said, would I like to see us scheme some deep crossers, more routes for Chase from the slot, more bunch formations?  Absolutely, but Zac hasnt been overly aggressive with these.

It is beyond comical to suggest a ROY starting his 4th season has peaked.

(09-17-2024, 08:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Maybe, just maybe he benefits from having Tee on the other side.

The better the other talent around you is, the harder it is to double you as a WR1.  

When Trenton Irwin is getting 6 targets...well...that tells you something about the talent around him.

(09-17-2024, 10:47 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't think you realize how much teams are focusing on taking Chase out of the game. He is doubled up and the defense has their eyes on him on every play.

It opens up a lot for other guys.

Right, and Justin Jefferson never has to deal with that

(09-17-2024, 11:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Right, and Justin Jefferson never has to deal with that

OC’s Jefferson has had:

Gary Kubiak - Super Bowl winning HC

Klint Kubiak - Has Derek Carr and the Saints offense absolutely humming so far

Wes Phillips - Passing game coordinator on the Super Bowl winning Rams

OC’s Chase has had:

Brian Callahan - bunch of minor assistant jobs, QB coach in Detroit and Oakland, rough start in Tennessee

Dan Pitcher - WR coach at a division III school before coming to Cincinnati