(09-16-2024, 09:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For the most part, Marvin's teams could play with anybody. This was supposed to be the next step where the Bengals are the standard to be judged against.

I would say they have somewhat made that step though.

We no longer suck in Prime Time. Clearly better than Marvin's Era.

We can win playoff games. We're 5-2 in the playoffs in the past 3 years.

Within Burrow's two 'fully' healthy seasons, we won the division back-to-back, and went to the AFCCG back-to-back, once to the SB.

Even last year with a completely unknown QB and a poor defence, we had a winning record and weren't far off making the playoffs.

Other than KC, who's standard has been better? I'd rather have been the Rams (due to a SB win, though let's not forget they went 5-12 two years ago), and you'd have to say the 49ers with 3 straight NFC Champ games and a SB loss, but I'm not sure who else is at a better standard than we've been across those 3 years. 

(09-17-2024, 11:27 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I would say they have somewhat made that step though.

We no longer suck in Prime Time. Clearly better than Marvin's Era.

We can win playoff games. We're 5-2 in the playoffs in the past 3 years.

Within Burrow's two 'fully' healthy seasons, we won the division back-to-back, and went to the AFCCG back-to-back, once to the SB.

Even last year with a completely unknown QB and a poor defence, we had a winning record and weren't far off making the playoffs.

Other than KC, who's standard has been better? I'd rather have been the Rams (due to a SB win, though let's not forget they went 5-12 two years ago), and you'd have to say the 49ers with 3 straight NFC Champ games and a SB loss, but I'm not sure who else is at a better standard than we've been across those 3 years. 

If I were defining what makes a team a standard of winning to be measured by, the first item on the list would have to be winning against divisional opponents. The Bengals haven't done much of that the past few years.

Im not too optimistic , we have real issues early that could impact us short and long term

Burrow/WRs- the mojo seems not there, especially on Chase end and Higgins is up in the air, TEs seem to be the weapon of choice right now
Scoring/ 3rd down efficiency - 22nd in league in both areas...  this is an area  with Burrow should be much higher,  we have more FGs than TDs, not good....
DT- Both starters are banged up, this could be a problem  especially against the run
Conference play- 0-2 already, with a division game coming up in three weeks with Ravens, we fall to 0-3 in Conference play that is big picture trouble
Carolina-  Dalton has played well against us, i could see with a game under his belt, this being a much tougher game now at Carolina

(09-17-2024, 12:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If I were defining what makes a team a standard of winning to be measured by, the first item on the list would have to be winning against divisional opponents. The Bengals haven't done much of that the past few years.

Really? I can't see how division wins would be nearly as important as playoff wins. 

Was fun kicking the Ravens/Steelers backsides a couple of years ago, but it was more fun beating the Raiders/Titans/Chiefs/Bills (and Ravens of course) in the playoffs.

(09-17-2024, 09:41 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Still don't understand why everyone is bashing the FO. Chase still has 2 years left on his contract plus the tag if the Bengals want.  They offered 35 APY which is equal to JJ $$.  The only difference is the guarantee and deferring 2/3 of the $$ to later years.  Big deal.  This is a cash flow thing.  btw, you can't compare the Vikings because they are not already escrowing $$ for a QB guarantee.  The Bengals simply don't have the $$.  You can't put $20 of gas in your car if you only have $10 in your checking account.

I love Chase as much as the next person. But if he is going to act like he did this past week every week then it is not good.  When is he going to start complaining about not getting enough touches?  Trust me it's coming as he wants those stats for next years negotiations, which btw will be very ugly because the Bengal FO will have to use their leverage similar to arbitration.  This is going to cause a lot of bad blood for Chase and the organization if it goes into next year (way worse than it is now).  He needs to fire his agent and sign the damn contract.  If he wants to protect himself take out an insurance policy, he did it this year why not longer term.

Sadly, if this goes into next year the Bengals may have to make a decision to seek a trade.  If Chase all of a sudden wants 40M next year I don't see it getting done.  They may as well sign Tee and trade Chase to a team like the Panthers who you know will deliver a great draft pick.

At the end of the day it may end up worse for Chase than it does the Bengals.  If he wants to be the top guarantee money WR he may end up in NFL Siberia to get it.  Wonder if he would want that over staying with a contender.  Maybe?

I think Burrow won't win a ring without Chase or Tee, and I think he may not win one with only 1 of them at this point.

He is acting like this because he doesn't have a contract and has to take his own insurance policy out for guaranteed money.

I can understand if they "simply don't have the money". Maybe they should have thought of this when Burrow got a huge bag. Seems dumb all around. What was Burrow's plan when he said they had a plan for Chase/Tee/himself?

So if they didn't think about that, then they don't care about winning a ring. It' the same old Mike Brown and Bengals, good enough but not great enough. Someone can try to convince me otherwise that old man Mike Brown wasn't surprised that we made it to the SB. Most people were, even fans, we weren't supposed to be there yet. Has he been focusing on winning a super bowl? What else matters? Like before this, it was clear he was not.

The Bengals face a motivational issue. Starts up top, is MB motivated to win a ring? Then players are having motivational issues, likely financially related. Tee and Chase not being solved is proving a disaster right now. Chase needs to give his 100% for us to win.

We should take responsibility for how we act, Ja'marr and Tee are young, their agents and advisory board is likely poor, but to say nobody has any influence on how they feel would not be right. Bengals ain't making Tee or Ja'marr feel welcome. See how you act at your job when you feel like this.

So did Mike Brown not understand what Tee/Chase are going to ask for when giving Burrow so much money? What was the ***** plan?

The organization offered Chase a contract to make the highest paid WR with Jefferson, not like they offered peanuts

I’m feeling good. Hate starting slow but we’ve been here before. We still show up for big games and Mr. Burrow is as healthy as can be. Long season but yeah, I’m feeling good. Gotta start stacking wins, tho, cuz problems can pile up in a hurry

(09-17-2024, 12:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If I were defining what makes a team a standard of winning to be measured by, the first item on the list would have to be winning against divisional opponents. The Bengals haven't done much of that the past few years.

Ah, remember back a few years ago when Marvin would win the North and go to the playoffs to be one and done, and all anyone said they wanted was a playoff win before they die. Even McMoney can't hit those moving goalposts.

(09-18-2024, 08:14 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ah, remember back a few years ago when Marvin would win the North and go to the playoffs to be one and done, and all anyone said they wanted was a playoff win before they die. Even McMoney can't hit those moving goalposts.

Kudos for the witty rejoinder.

(09-18-2024, 08:14 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ah, remember back a few years ago when Marvin would win the North and go to the playoffs to be one and done, and all anyone said they wanted was a playoff win before they die. Even McMoney can't hit those moving goalposts.

The Zac Taylor led Bengal teams come out flat and have a reputation of being soft, that approach hasn't landed any Lombardi's yet, either.

(09-18-2024, 08:52 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The Zac Taylor led Bengal teams come out flat and have a reputation of being soft, that approach hasn't landed any Lombardi's yet, either.

Reputation for coming out flat and finishing strong down the stretch when it counts. And I don't know anyone who would really call the Bengals soft.

(09-18-2024, 09:02 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Reputation for coming out flat and finishing strong down the stretch when it counts. And I don't know anyone who would really call the Bengals soft.

Can't run the ball when they need to, can't stop the run on defense. Those are literally the hallmarks of a soft, finesse team.

Edit: On top of that we have a diva WR who pouted over not getting the biggest contract for his position who is now in the news for whining over not getting a flag when he wanted one. That's Charmin Soft type of stuff.

(09-17-2024, 01:22 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think Burrow won't win a ring without Chase or Tee, and I think he may not win one with only 1 of them at this point.

He is acting like this because he doesn't have a contract and has to take his own insurance policy out for guaranteed money.

I can understand if they "simply don't have the money". Maybe they should have thought of this when Burrow got a huge bag. Seems dumb all around. What was Burrow's plan when he said they had a plan for Chase/Tee/himself?

So if they didn't think about that, then they don't care about winning a ring. It' the same old Mike Brown and Bengals, good enough but not great enough. Someone can try to convince me otherwise that old man Mike Brown wasn't surprised that we made it to the SB. Most people were, even fans, we weren't supposed to be there yet. Has he been focusing on winning a super bowl? What else matters? Like before this, it was clear he was not.

The Bengals face a motivational issue. Starts up top, is MB motivated to win a ring? Then players are having motivational issues, likely financially related. Tee and Chase not being solved is proving a disaster right now. Chase needs to give his 100% for us to win.

We should take responsibility for how we act, Ja'marr and Tee are young, their agents and advisory board is likely poor, but to say nobody has any influence on how they feel would not be right. Bengals ain't making Tee or Ja'marr feel welcome. See how you act at your job when you feel like this.

So did Mike Brown not understand what Tee/Chase are going to ask for when giving Burrow so much money? What was the ***** plan?

What does cash flow, or lack thereof, have to do with the owners motivation to wing a ring?  Do you not think the offer to Chase was fair considering the market?  I think it was more than fair considering they didn't even have to negotiate at all.  I would say the fact that the Bengals reached out to Chase's representatives right after last season indicates they were motivated.  Some people may not like how it turned out but that has nothing to do with the Bengals being motivated.  Chase has a role in this also.  He chose not to accept the offer.  The Bengals can't do anything about that.

In terms of Burrow, he was eligible and his offer was at the top of the market and where it should have been when it was negotiated.  QB's get more money period.  By your last statement it sounds like you would have preferred we low-balled Burrow to sign Chase and Tee?  

(09-16-2024, 03:09 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I know the teams starts out slow.
I know the team is 0-2.  

I don't understand why the Bengal fanbase is surprised each year by the slow start and poor play early in the season.  Whatever the cause, it is who they are & It is what it is.  Just accept it.  

The Bengals are one of maybe 2-3 teams that can and will beat the Chiefs.  Chiefs know this.  Chiefs fans know this.  refs know this.  
But the Bengals will be a force moving forward and once again be one of the team to beat in the playoffs.  

They just have to remain healthy and maybe get a couple IDL.

I won't make assumptions for others, but for me personally, some of these early season losses can affect whether they make the playoffs or seeding.
If the Bengals performed the entire year at the level we've expected of them, they should be right there with the Chiefs competing for #1 seed.
Might be the difference of 13-4 instead of 10-7, for example. Now maybe they end up having to play the Chiefs in Arrowhead instead of at Paycor in the AFCCG.

It's also just nice to see more wins in general during the regular season because it's...fun.

(09-18-2024, 09:29 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: What does cash flow, or lack thereof, have to do with the owners motivation to wing a ring?  Do you not think the offer to Chase was fair considering the market?  I think it was more than fair considering they didn't even have to negotiate at all.  I would say the fact that the Bengals reached out to Chase's representatives right after last season indicates they were motivated.  Some people may not like how it turned out but that has nothing to do with the Bengals being motivated.  Chase has a role in this also.  He chose not to accept the offer.  The Bengals can't do anything about that.

In terms of Burrow, he was eligible and his offer was at the top of the market and where it should have been when it was negotiated.  QB's get more money period.  By your last statement it sounds like you would have preferred we low-balled Burrow to sign Chase and Tee?  

Yes, I preferred we low balled Burrow to sign Chase or Tee. You don't have to pay Burrow top of market, that is what he and his agent wanted and look what it got you.

Low balled being maybe 5 million a year lower, which is 10%. One problem is Ja'marr and Burrow's contract don't line up (hard for him to leave guarantees or signing bonus on the table maybe). Chase's contract looked fair market but his guarantee kick in wasn't soon enough, I can understand why they are structuring it like that because he's asking for it too soon.

I don't think Burrow's window is his entire career, it is probably his career with Chase or Tee and more likely Chase and Tee. We'd be 2-0 with Tee, no? I don't see a re-sign of Chase or Tee (after their 2nd contract). Burrow will be 28 this year. I'm guessing his best chance to win a SB is with Chase and Tee on the field, not without one of them - unless it means he has an AFC-N caliber Defense on the other side.

Why do I think the old Mikey doesn't care? They don't trade their draft capital. You have no "all in" year like the Rams. Why not? Middling and getting close is not what a fan wants. If we return to the junk yard after a superbowl win, most of us won't care. He may have turned a leaf with Katie, but the MO on Mike is he doesn't give a shit about winning, historically. If he thought we needed to have an all in type season(s) he would have instructed it. That might hurt the franchise in the long run and maybe he thinks it's not sustainable.

So when do you think Mike brown started to care about winning? After he drafted Burrow? Even if he may have cared about winning, it didn't seem to be his #1 priority. Since we're not owners, it's his prerogative. I'll take 1 great year over 19 bad years to follow vs 20 good years.

(09-18-2024, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I won't make assumptions for others, but for me personally, some of these early season losses can affect whether they make the playoffs or seeding.
If the Bengals performed the entire year at the level we've expected of them, they should right there with the Chiefs competing for #1 seed.
Might be the difference of 13-4 instead of 10-7, for example. Now maybe they end up having to play the Chiefs in Arrowhead instead of at Paycor in the AFCCG.

It's also just nice to see more wins in general during the regular season because it's...fun.

We always look back at the end of the season and say "if we had won this one". If KC doesn't stumble we have already lost out on the #1 seed, lol.

It looks like we should have won the KC game, the Patriots game we probably will just accept the Zac Taylor game 1 L. Like the Mavin Lewis under the lights L, it's a guarantee. Unfortunately his Game 2 Ls are also guarantees.

(09-18-2024, 09:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I won't make assumptions for others, but for me personally, some of these early season losses can affect whether they make the playoffs or seeding.
If the Bengals performed the entire year at the level we've expected of them, they should be right there with the Chiefs competing for #1 seed.
Might be the difference of 13-4 instead of 10-7, for example. Now maybe they end up having to play the Chiefs in Arrowhead instead of at Paycor in the AFCCG.

It's also just nice to see more wins in general during the regular season because it's...fun.

I agree it would be better to win and play better.  I know it is quite disappointing.  But, are you surprised?

(09-18-2024, 03:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I agree it would be better to win and play better.  I know it is quite disappointing.  But, are you surprised?

The Bengals have probably jaded me over these years, but I've always had caution about being too optimistic for them.
So I'm always expecting something to happen where they disappoint, at least when it comes to postseason.

Maybe it's like the reverse of baseball.
When the Reds don't hit in April/May, many say just wait for the weather to warm up and we'll start seeing that offense roll.
Maybe for the Bengals it's wait for the weather to cool down and we'll start seeing that offense roll lol.