I am in no way, shape, or form a "blame the coach" guy. I think ZT is a fine head coach and I think the issues with this team are waaaay bigger than head coaching. It's more of a personel issue for me.

That being said, is it time for ZT to stop being such a players coach?

There was an interview with Joe yesterday where Joe was talking about how he needs to be more of a "vocal" leader, hold people accountable, etc. Why shold that fall on the QB? We ask Joe to do enough already. Holding people accountable, being the "vocal leader", etc. should come from the head coach IMO.

I think one of ZT's charms is that he IS a players coach, but maybe he's become a little TOO much of a players coach. Things seem to be getting a bit lax. Maybe it's time to light some fires and not rely on your QB to do it.

The HC can be a "players coach" and things can still work out just fine, there has to be some balance. By balance, I mean if the HC is going to be the nice guy, then the DC should likely be a hardcore taskmaster and the OC should be cold, calculating and have every trivial detail planned out.

(Yesterday, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am in no way, shape, or form a "blame the coach" guy. I think ZT is a fine head coach and I think the issues with this team are waaaay bigger than head coaching. It's more of a personel issue for me.

That being said, is it time for ZT to stop being such a players coach?

There was an interview with Joe yesterday where Joe was talking about how he needs to be more of a "vocal" leader, hold people accountable, etc. Why shold that fall on the QB? We ask Joe to do enough already. Holding people accountable, being the "vocal leader", etc. should come from the head coach IMO.

I think one of ZT's charms is that he IS a players coach, but maybe he's become a little TOO much of a players coach. Things seem to be getting a bit lax. Maybe it's time to light some fires and not rely on your QB to do it.

I agree with your overall sentiment....but you also need guys in the locker room to echo the coaches' sentiments, and kinda police things internally. I think Joe has been a largely lead by example kinda guy based on what he's said. They likely had a discussion about him being a bit more vocal as well. Think Tom Brady ......

No, I think his personality is great for this team and franchise. I would like to see a more physical spring/training camp from him though but I don't think that makes him less of a players coach.

I dont think Zac becoming a more "in your face" or "rah rah" coach could do much with the lack of talent on the defensive side. He had the offense humming.

He does need to grow a pair and have a serious conversation with the front office regarding Lou and Simmons. IMO. (It will do no good to ask them to do better drafting talent.)

(Yesterday, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am in no way, shape, or form a "blame the coach" guy. I think ZT is a fine head coach and I think the issues with this team are waaaay bigger than head coaching. It's more of a personel issue for me.

That being said, is it time for ZT to stop being such a players coach?

There was an interview with Joe yesterday where Joe was talking about how he needs to be more of a "vocal" leader, hold people accountable, etc. Why shold that fall on the QB? We ask Joe to do enough already. Holding people accountable, being the "vocal leader", etc. should come from the head coach IMO.

I think one of ZT's charms is that he IS a players coach, but maybe he's become a little TOO much of a players coach. Things seem to be getting a bit lax. Maybe it's time to light some fires and not rely on your QB to do it.

From my experience being both an individual contributor and manager in my professional career, it does help to have an individual contributor help.
A peer team member can sometimes help drive something that just doesn't hit the same if it comes from a manager/executive alone.

I agree that the coach/manager should also do that though. It shouldn't fall solely on one individual on the team, manager or peer.

(Yesterday, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am in no way, shape, or form a "blame the coach" guy. I think ZT is a fine head coach and I think the issues with this team are waaaay bigger than head coaching. It's more of a personel issue for me.

That being said, is it time for ZT to stop being such a players coach?

There was an interview with Joe yesterday where Joe was talking about how he needs to be more of a "vocal" leader, hold people accountable, etc. Why shold that fall on the QB? We ask Joe to do enough already. Holding people accountable, being the "vocal leader", etc. should come from the head coach IMO.

I think one of ZT's charms is that he IS a players coach, but maybe he's become a little TOO much of a players coach. Things seem to be getting a bit lax. Maybe it's time to light some fires and not rely on your QB to do it.

I think both need to if there are issues.

This is Joe's team honestly. Nothing wrong with him taking more control and nothing wrong with Zac and what he has done lately.

We need to not be so lax in Training Camp and Preseason sure seems like the problem to me and why we start so slow. Zac being a
player's coach is not a bad thing. It is just the timing needs to be more urgent early in the season in getting wins. It is urgent now and
I expect us to go on a run soon, it is time.

But Joe Burrow taking more of a Tom Brady role should only help.

I dunno if being a player's coach has anything to do with anything but someone in the building has to set the standard. "Aw, shucks, we're going to work hard to be better" doesn't cut it.

Three examples stand out. 1) Who is calling the offensive plays? The lack of clear direction is obvious when the teams dithers their way up to the line, Burrow constantly changes plays when there, and then we take delay of game penalties after timeouts. 2) Someone needs to have a discussion with Joe Burrow that playing more from under center may be better for the team even if it isn't what he would prefer. It clearly need to be the OC and or head coach. Joe isn't dumb, but he seems to learn only by his own trial and error, and not because a coach says "too bad, that's the way it's going to be". 3) The team often looks like it's mailing it in. They are not playing with urgency. Worse yet, they look like they are playing frustrated; they have energy but no clear direction. That's on coaching.

(Yesterday, 02:46 PM)puddycat Wrote: I dunno if being a player's coach has anything to do with anything but someone in the building has to set the standard.  "Aw, shucks, we're going to work hard to be better" doesn't cut it.

Three examples stand out. 1) Who is calling the offensive plays?  The lack of clear direction is obvious when the teams dithers their way up to the line, Burrow constantly changes plays when there, and then we take delay of game penalties after timeouts.  2) Someone needs to have a discussion with Joe Burrow that playing more from under center may be better for the team even if it isn't what he would prefer.  It clearly need to be the OC and or head coach.  Joe isn't dumb, but he seems to learn only by his own trial and error, and not because a coach says "too bad, that's the way it's going to be".  3) The team often looks like it's mailing it in.  They are not playing with urgency.  Worse yet, they look like they are playing frustrated; they have energy but no clear direction.  That's on coaching.

I was at the game Monday night. I got all excited when we lined up in the I-formation and Moss went for 15yds on the play before the first Chase TD. I was more excited about that play than the actual touchdown lol

Players coach is only good if the players police the team.

I am as impressed with Zac Taylor as I am another player's coach/manager, David Bell. They are two peas in a pod. Dull, bland, and bad at ball. But the players like them, so I guess that's good, right?  Zac needs to go the way of the Bells(Buddy and Davey), two of the worst to ever lead a team. "Player's coach" is often synonomous with no accountability.

I feel like Zac is too much of a coaches coach. He doesn’t seem to hold them accountable. Pollack in years past and lou this year. Listening to his interview Wednesday, he shouldered the blame for not scoring enough points on offense. That could be true for week 1, and maybe2. But this last week should have been a little different.

I’ve been thinking about this too, even before the losses. I think the answer is yes. At least in the sense that I don’t remember a coach who’s been this loose, this consistently, who’s won the big prize. At some point he’s gonna need to put his foot down. Has he done that? Maybe, but I haven’t seen (or even heard) anything that would suggest that he has, and that could pose a problem down the road. It’s a fine balance- but it needs to be a balance. I don’t think it’s healthy to sit on one extreme (buddy) or the other (tyrant).

He’s awful.

queue the marvin lewis video yelling at the bengals to effing tackle, don't field a punt at the 1, stop committing penalties, and you wonder why you don't get any playing time.

I know exactly what the problem is. Zac hasn't tried to steal Joes nuggies.

(10 hours ago)HarleyDog Wrote: I know exactly what the problem is. Zac hasn't tried to steal Joes nuggies.

And no one batted an eye when Andy let Kelce get away with his nonsense on the sidelines last year.....

(10 hours ago)Wyche Wrote: And no one batted an eye when Andy let Kelce get away with his nonsense on the sidelines last year.....

People did bat an eye, but the Chiefs went on the win the SB, so it became ok.

(Yesterday, 10:08 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am in no way, shape, or form a "blame the coach" guy. I think ZT is a fine head coach and I think the issues with this team are waaaay bigger than head coaching. It's more of a personel issue for me.

That being said, is it time for ZT to stop being such a players coach?

There was an interview with Joe yesterday where Joe was talking about how he needs to be more of a "vocal" leader, hold people accountable, etc. Why shold that fall on the QB? We ask Joe to do enough already. Holding people accountable, being the "vocal leader", etc. should come from the head coach IMO.

I think one of ZT's charms is that he IS a players coach, but maybe he's become a little TOO much of a players coach. Things seem to be getting a bit lax. Maybe it's time to light some fires and not rely on your QB to do it.

1)you, I and others on this Board have absolutely no idea as to the way ZT comports himself with the players, other coaches etc..and the intensity or lack thereof..Zac appears to be an intelligent well spoken coach..does not make him easy pickings..Joe Burrow was speaking about himself and noway was he critiquing Zac Taylor..You have created a story of fiction