The FO set out to improve the S position this offseason.

And this is what we got.

(10-10-2024, 09:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Bengals defense was terrible last year and Reader was here.

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Only if you've completely forgotten and glossed over the fact that Bates was bad in 2 of his 4 seasons with Lou, okay in 1, and great in 1 and the great one was in 2020 or 3 years prior to when he needed paid. He was magic in the 2021 playoffs, but he was nondescript in the 2022 playoffs. 

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The Bengals mistakes were not failing to re-sign those guys. It was having a bad DC, drafting poorly, and signing bad FAs to replace them.

The last season Bates and Reader played together the defense was a Top 10 scoring defense and the defense  was #1 in QB Rating that season.

(10-11-2024, 10:52 AM)J24 Wrote: The last season Bates and Reader played together the defense was a Top 10 scoring defense and the defense  was #1 in QB Rating that season.

And the season before that together they were the 17th scoring defense and 18th in QB Rating.
And the season before that together they were the 22nd scoring defense and 22nd in QB Rating.

But we just hand wave the defense being bad with them for two straight years because of a magical 2021 postseason run.

We had Reader for 4 years, the defense was only good 1 of them. 
We had Bates for 5 years, the defense was only good 1 of them.
They were together for 3 years and the defense was only good 1 of them.

The revisionist history trying to paint the defense as some great thing, so long as we kept those two, is going way too strong this season.

(10-10-2024, 08:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Some clarification backstabber....

I also said that we should put Jordan Battle in on running downs and was concerned about Geno Stone's tackling and run stopping but 
yeah, just say I said Geno Stone would help on run Defense and ignore it was Vonn Bell I thought would help...

Bullshit beyond imagination FFS.

You said Stone was a good tackler when we signed him 

(10-11-2024, 11:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And the season before that together they were the 17th scoring defense and 18th in QB Rating.
And the season before that together they were the 22nd scoring defense and 22nd in QB Rating.

But we just hand wave the defense being bad with them for two straight years because of a magical 2021 postseason run.

We had Reader for 4 years, the defense was only good 1 of them. 
We had Bates for 5 years, the defense was only good 1 of them.
They were together for 3 years and the defense was only good 1 of them.

The revisionist history trying to paint the defense as some great thing, so long as we kept those two, is going way too strong this season.

people remember how they played elite come playoff time. Middle of the pack regular season would be awesome right now. I'll take an average defense that turns great in the postseason any day

(10-11-2024, 12:40 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: You said Stone was a good tackler when we signed him 

That was before I knew much about the guy, I assumed he was a decent tackler being on the Ravens, but not true.

Man, you sure like to hack on me for being wrong, I can admit it when I am wrong. I bet you can't.

They’re doing the same thing they did last year. They get in their zones and are WAY too slow to come out of them to react to the play. This is why it seems like every receiver is wide open - they get into the gaps between the zones and our secondary fails to react quickly enough.

(10-11-2024, 01:27 PM)Joelist Wrote: They’re doing the same thing they did last year. They get in their zones and are WAY too slow to come out of them to react to the play. This is why it seems like every receiver is wide open - they get into the gaps between the zones and our secondary fails to react quickly enough.

True, seeing way too much cushion out there especially with CTB.

(10-11-2024, 11:04 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: And the season before that together they were the 17th scoring defense and 18th in QB Rating.
And the season before that together they were the 22nd scoring defense and 22nd in QB Rating.

But we just hand wave the defense being bad with them for two straight years because of a magical 2021 postseason run.

We had Reader for 4 years, the defense was only good 1 of them. 
We had Bates for 5 years, the defense was only good 1 of them.
They were together for 3 years and the defense was only good 1 of them.

The revisionist history trying to paint the defense as some great thing, so long as we kept those two, is going way too strong this season.

Or maybe the defense geld in the playoffs in 2021 and for the 2022 season's? Maybe breaking up that unit wasn't the smartest idea in the world?

(10-11-2024, 08:36 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yep, I posted the other day threads from where Jesse was #1 in the league in missed tackles. People forget his struggles. He's a good safety, but not worth what he was asking. If he was "Playoff Jesse" all the time, then yeah, but too often he was Bad Andy

Well he's been "playoff Jessie in Atlanta!

(10-11-2024, 10:52 AM)J24 Wrote: The last season Bates and Reader played together the defense was a Top 10 scoring defense and the defense  was #1 in QB Rating that season.

To be honest, we didnt play a murderer's row of QBs that season:

Tribusky
Rush
Flacco
Bridgewater
Lamar
Dalton
Mariota
Brissett
Mayfield
Pickett
Tannehill
Mahomes
Watson
Brady
Jones
Brown

(10-11-2024, 01:39 PM)J24 Wrote: Or maybe the defense geld in the playoffs in 2021 and for the 2022 season's? Maybe breaking up that unit wasn't the smartest idea in the world?

If it takes 2 seasons (how long both Bates and Reader were on the team together before the '21 playoffs) for a defense to gel, there's larger problems at play.

Also: We barely played any starting-caliber QBs in 2022 so it's quite possible it was just a mirage. In 13 of our 16 games, we went against QBs like...
Mitchell Trubisky
Cooper Rush
Joe Flacco (Jets)
Concussed Tua/Teddy Bridgewater
Andy Dalton
Marcus Mariota
Jacoby Brissett
Baker Mayfield (Panthers)
Kenny Pickett
Ryan Tannehill
Deshaun Watson
Mac Jones 
Anthony Brown

Bates was just okay in 2022 and Reader only played 38.32% of the snaps that year, a mere 0.10% more than Zac Carter. Heck, Awuzie missed half the season and Hendrickson had only 8 sacks. Very little of that season made sense and isn't exactly a reliable blueprint to copy.

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They also simply had to spend more on offense after being among the league-leaders for years on defensive cap spending. Burrow needed paid (goodbye ~$9m cap hits at QB) and on top of paying him Burrow was sacked 121 times in those two years and he couldn't keep taking that punishment so he needed some actual OL. The Bengals are seemingly incapable of drafting them so they had to buy them. Trey Hopkins at something like $6.6m was the highest cap hit on the OL in 2021 and nobody else on the OL was even at $5m.

(10-11-2024, 01:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That was before I knew much about the guy, I assumed he was a decent tackler being on the Ravens, but not true.

Man, you sure like to hack on me for being wrong, I can admit it when I am wrong. I bet you can't.

Oh no, I certainly can. I thought our overall defense would be a bit better than last year, because I didn't think it could get worse. I also wasn't bought in on that our offense would have a bit more variety (under center runs, etc. ). The eye test seems like we are doing that a bit more, but I haven't seen any actual data on that this year though.

You've just seemed to get defensive about being wrong and having it addressed. 

(10-11-2024, 03:01 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: You've just seemed to get defensive about being wrong and having it addressed. 

Bro, you seem a little too eager to get a "win" over Nate.  He is one of the nicest posters on this board.

If you are seeking a robust and aggressive debate, I suggest you choose one of the assholes here; like me, or Leonard.  I promise that it would be much more engaging, even if it is a tad less unforgiving...?

(10-11-2024, 03:17 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Bro, you seem a little too eager to get a "win" over Nate.  He is one of the nicest posters on this board.

If you are seeking a robust and aggressive debate, I suggest you choose one of the assholes here; like me, or Leonard.  I promise that it would be much more engaging, even if it is a tad less unforgiving...?

Thanks for leaving me out. :'(

(10-11-2024, 10:51 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The FO set out to improve the S position this offseason.

And this is what we got.

Bengals FO - We want to upgrade over Hill and Battle!
Taylor/Anarumo - Great!
Bengals FO - Well...as long as they cost under $10 mill APY. 
Taylor/Anarumo - Oh...well...maybe this guy?

For real though, the top-paid SAF is making $21 mill APY.
5 SAFs are making $16+ mill APY.
14 are making $10+ mill APY.

Geno Stone is tied for 20th at just $7 mill.
Bell 92nd at $1.2 mill.

If the Bengals are willing to spend it (unlikely?) and the player is good enough still, there are some high-priced dudes set to hit FA this coming offseason:
- Budda Baker (currently $14.75 mill APY)
- Justin Reid (currently $10.5 mill APY)
- Justin Simmons (currently $7.5 mill APY)

I feel like all are upgrades to Stone, but I don't know if they're IDEAL upgrades given where they are currently in their skill set and age.

(10-11-2024, 03:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Thanks for leaving me out.

You are so much more diplomatic than me, and Leonard just comes so hard with his almanac of unsympathetic supporting stats.  I was complimenting you with the omission. 

(10-11-2024, 03:01 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: Oh no, I certainly can. I thought our overall defense would be a bit better than last year, because I didn't think it could get worse. I also wasn't bought in on that our offense would have a bit more variety (under center runs, etc. ). The eye test seems like we are doing that a bit more, but I haven't seen any actual data on that this year though.

You've just seemed to get defensive about being wrong and having it addressed. 

You just seem to enjoy being right about the Bengals sucking which I find a bit strange.

(10-11-2024, 01:42 PM)J24 Wrote: Well he's been "playoff Jessie in Atlanta!

And good for him. Doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent as hell when he was here.

(10-11-2024, 04:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And good for him. Doesn't change the fact he was inconsistent as hell when he was here.

ATP we gotta let that year when he played with no contract go. No amount of moving the goalposts can make that look like a good move by the front office