(10-30-2024, 01:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: i've said this before, but why re-sign pratt and davis-gaither when neither of them are game changers? Those are 2 guys you can draft to replace. A guy like Bates you just cant replace. Hell, all Reader needed was a 1 year prove it deal. I just dont get it. 

And it will be a disastrous mistake if they sign tee. Thats even more money not being used to help multiple roster holes, and it would go to a guy who plays 11 games per season. What happens when he gets injured again? Oh, well you put all that miney into one guy, so the rest of the roster still stinks, and they end up losing 90% of those games he isnt playing.

and back to the whit situation. Why would they fracture the relationship with him by telling him to his face that "We dont want you" ? Like, I get if they didnt want to re-sign whit, but to tell him to his face after mike tells him something different? And then they do try to extend him after 2016, but Whit remembers how the blackburns told him to **** off, and now theyre shit out of luck. I thought smart business people dont burn bridges?

Why would Reader go for a one year prove it deal when he got a multi-year deal from elsewhere? As for Bates, I've addressed that before, he was meh here until playoff time. 

(10-30-2024, 04:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You have to actually GET to the playoffs to make any noise though. And if we continue to be absolutely terrible inside the division that will always be an uphill battle. Trust me, I wish we were in pretty much any other division the way we’re built lol.

As far as the rest of them not doing much in the playoffs in a while it might sound like an oversimplification but just look at the QB situations. The Steelers were trotting Ben out there into his late 30’s then had Mason Rudolph last year. Lamar seems to choke every January like clockwork. Cleveland should have never moved on from Baker as he’s won playoff games for both them and Tampa at this point. But they’re the Browns so ***** up at QB is what they do.

But I get it, 5-2 is 5-2. It’s going to buy Zac a hell of a long leash with this ownership. At the very least he needs to make some major changes like giving up play calling or firing Lou if they keep trending in the wrong direction.

I hear you, this division is archaic. I get your premise about the others too, but it just seems to me that the method of play is outdated compared to the rest of the league. Every year a team from North grinds everyone into hamburger during the season, and then get bounced early.... except for the Bengals recently. Like I noted, those numbers go back ten years. 

Agree on that last paragraph for sure.

(10-30-2024, 07:38 PM)jj22 Wrote: This is why the FO should turn their ire to Tobin. Tobin’s screwed up the plan by not being able to draft the players to replace these stars. That’s why they  keep kicking the can. Hoping, wishing and praying the draft pick meant to replace  a star steps up. They haven’t. 

That’s not the fault of the coaches. Zac’s recent enough playoff success proves he can coach. It’s not just the teams (Bills) that you can say wet the beds in the playoffs. It’s coaches too. And 5-2 rather folks like it or not buys time. It could be worse. If winning a SB is really the goal. 

Zac’s the one that still has the power if he’d wield it. And he should. If the plan is to pay certain positions and rely on the draft to develop replacements then you have to draft good. Tobin is the fall guy. He should be. And Zac if he had any pull should remember he is the best they are probably going to get at HC, and he needs to threaten to quit! If only a power play to restructure the scouting department. 

Who else can force it if not Zac at this point? 

This. Right. Here. All of it ......

(10-30-2024, 06:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Tobin ain’t leaving. We just have to pray they invest more into the scouting department

Could be correct.

(10-30-2024, 06:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: HC. We need toughness in our organization, it's gotta start at the top, and Zac sure as hell is not going to do it.

Tired of getting manhandled by our division in the run game and all the talk about "we gotta take what they give us" and other passive phrases where the other teams get to dictate our gameplans to us. He took the Titans to the AFCC with Ryan Tannehill who I think we can all agree is worse than Joe Burrow.

Completely understand. I hate being the finesse team of the Division myself. Would be all for Vrabel at HC to bring back physicality to 
this team. What is strange is we actually were physical in our Super Bowl run which honestly gives me hope if Zac sticks around and we
add all new coaches around him.

(10-31-2024, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely understand. I hate being the finesse team of the Division myself. Would be all for Vrabel at HC to bring back physicality to 
this team. What is strange is we actually were physical in our Super Bowl run which honestly gives me hope if Zac sticks around and we
add all new coaches around him.

We'd still start the season 0-2. So we would still have to go 10-5 (.667 win%) to get to 10 wins while every other team has to go 10-7 (.588 win%) to do the same.

6 seasons and he still hasn't figured out how to get his team ready for the season. He pulled the whole "we're going to do things differently this offseason" heading into this year and then Myles Murphy got hurt in a joint practice and they completely shut down and reverted into protect-at-all-costs-mode. 

So even if he says anything different, I refuse to believe him anymore because he simply can't change his stripes. He's going to have a baby soft leadup to the season, his team will look like crap the first couple weeks because of it, and he WILL abandon the run and just throw the ball out of the shotgun. No matter what he says, it's Lucy with the football or the scorpion trying to convince the frog to give it a ride.

(10-31-2024, 03:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We'd still start the season 0-2. So we would still have to go 10-5 (.667 win%) to get to 10 wins while every other team has to go 10-7 (.588 win%) to do the same.

6 seasons and he still hasn't figured out how to get his team ready for the season. He pulled the whole "we're going to do things differently this offseason" heading into this year and then Myles Murphy got hurt in a joint practice and they completely shut down and reverted into protect-at-all-costs-mode. 

So even if he says anything different, I refuse to believe him anymore because he simply can't change his stripes. He's going to have a baby soft leadup to the season, his team will look like crap the first couple weeks because of it, and he WILL abandon the run and just throw the ball out of the shotgun. No matter what he says, it's Lucy with the football or the scorpion trying to convince the frog to give it a ride.

Sad, because I cannot disagree with anything you say here.

New dc new gm a real oc trade tee now he is not going to re sign better scouting toomany misses in draft
Get out of the shot gun all the time

(11-01-2024, 10:06 AM)chopperbobby Wrote: New dc new gm a real oc trade tee now he is not going to re sign  better scouting  toomany misses in draft
Get out of the shot gun all the time

"no" - mike brown

(11-01-2024, 10:11 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: "no" - mike brown

That will not change. So no use dreaming about it. His daughter and son in law do most of the decisions now. Did you see the Whitt interview about his leaving Mike wanted him. Blackburns did not. He was gone.

(10-29-2024, 09:37 PM)Destro Wrote: I see a bunch of posters being very angry at this.

Not really.

(11-01-2024, 08:44 PM)chopperbobby Wrote: That will not change. So no use dreaming about it.  His daughter and son in law do most of the decisions now.  Did you see the Whitt interview about his leaving Mike wanted him. Blackburns did not.  He was gone.

From those interviews Whit said the Blackburns did not want to extend him, but Mike did so they talked 1-on-1 and Mike just executive decisioned over them and signed him to a 1 year extension (which is why he was on the team for 2016).

If Mike Brown wants something to happen, he still just does it regardless of what anyone else thinks or wants. Rarely it's a good thing (extended Whit another year) but most of the time it's not, but ultimately he still has the final say whenever he wants it.

(11-01-2024, 10:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: From those interviews Whit said the Blackburns did not want to extend him, but Mike did so they talked 1-on-1 and Mike just executive decisioned over them and signed him to a 1 year extension (which is why he was on the team for 2016).

If Mike Brown wants something to happen, he still just does it regardless of what anyone else thinks or wants. Rarely it's a good thing (extended Whit another year) but most of the time it's not, but ultimately he still has the final say whenever he wants it.

I think you got the timeline wrong. Mike said he would agree to the extension, then when whit went to the blackburns, they told whit that they personally dont want him. Which is something that shouldnt be said. It comes off as slight undermining, and its burning a bridge and fracturing a relationship with whit

(11-01-2024, 10:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I think you got the timeline wrong. Mike said he would agree to the extension, then when whit went to the blackburns, they told whit that they personally dont want him. Which is something that shouldnt be said. It comes off as slight undermining, and its burning a bridge and fracturing a relationship with whit

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/andrew-whitworth-bengals-offer

Quote:Whitworth was entering a contract year and coming off one of his best seasons in 2014. He asked for an extension, but the front office was silent and didn't communicate with him about their plans to select his replacement early in the draft. 

Whitworth voiced his displeasure in an interview shortly after the draft, which led to Katie and Troy Blackburn doubling down on their mistake to take Ogbuehi and Fisher. 

“After I went out in the media and said there wasn’t any communication, they [Katie and Troy Blackburn] brought me in the next week and said ‘we’re going to move forward with these two guys and we think you’re done,'" Whitworth said on Willie Anderson's Instagram. 

Bengals owner Mike Brown stepped in during the 2015 season. Cincinnati was 2-0 and on their way to an 8-0 start. He made the decision to keep 'Big Whit' around for at least one more year.  

“Midseason of that year, Mike (Brown) and I ended up sitting down as we always did usually to talk ball," Whitworth said. "He decided... him — not anybody else — Mike decided on his own that he wanted me to stick around another year so he ended up giving me a one-year extension, just between him and I.”

(11-01-2024, 10:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I think you got the timeline wrong. Mike said he would agree to the extension, then when whit went to the blackburns, they told whit that they personally dont want him. Which is something that shouldnt be said. It comes off as slight undermining, and its burning a bridge and fracturing a relationship with whit

it is what managers do all the time, bad managers that is.

(10-30-2024, 07:38 PM)jj22 Wrote: This is why the FO should turn their ire to Tobin. Tobin’s screwed up the plan by not being able to draft the players to replace these stars. That’s why they  keep kicking the can. Hoping, wishing and praying the draft pick meant to replace  a star steps up. They haven’t. 

That’s not the fault of the coaches. Zac’s recent enough playoff success proves he can coach. It’s not just the teams (Bills) that you can say wet the beds in the playoffs. It’s coaches too. And 5-2 rather folks like it or not buys time. It could be worse. If winning a SB is really the goal. 

Zac’s the one that still has the power if he’d wield it. And he should. If the plan is to pay certain positions and rely on the draft to develop replacements then you have to draft good. Tobin is the fall guy. He should be. And Zac if he had any pull should remember he is the best they are probably going to get at HC, and he needs to threaten to quit! If only a power play to restructure the scouting department. 

Who else can force it if not Zac at this point? 

So because the front office knows they’re cheap, they should blame Tobin for failure to assemble a good roster?  I’m in favor of kicking Tobin to the curb just because he’s been here too long and complacency sets in, but I’m not sure I’m following your logic.  How about the front office modernize their stance on contract structures or sell the franchise to an owner who’s priority is to field the most competitive roster each season as opposed securing their target return on investment?

(11-01-2024, 08:44 PM)chopperbobby Wrote: That will not change. So no use dreaming about it.  His daughter and son in law do most of the decisions now.  Did you see the Whitt interview about his leaving Mike wanted him. Blackburns did not.  He was gone.

Ye gods, of all the things to overrule MB on it was that.

(10-30-2024, 01:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They are doing the right thing by not re-sgining Tee. 

Where they are screwing up is by not trading him to aquire draft capital to make the team better, yonger, and cheaper. They will let him walk for nothing much like Bates, Reader, etc. 

They are just so ***** stupid and stubborn to change the way they operate. "Not in the business of making other teams better". Do we realize how ***** dumb that sounds? You're going to make another team better because you're going to let him walk in free agency regardless. 

They made the Falcons a better team..substantially better..

(10-30-2024, 02:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: “Magic” is not a contextual point lol. Tomin is just a fantastic coach. Anyway, I’ll stop lumping 2023 into the equation if it makes you and the other 4 Zac apologists on this board feel better. This season has been enough of an indictment alone. A healthy Joe Burrow at or near the top of almost every major statistical category and yet we’re a 3 win team, and 0-4 at home. Brutal.

And no playoff wins since 2016.. Awesome! That deserves at least a participation trophy..

Steelers are exactly what we always thought they were..a 9-8 10-7 team with a coach that excels at first round playoff exits..

(11-03-2024, 12:07 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s almost like you need at least decent QB play to win in the playoffs or something.

roethlisberger was bad from 2017 to 2020? I know he awful was in 2021

(11-01-2024, 10:06 AM)chopperbobby Wrote: New dc new gm a real oc trade tee now he is not going to re sign  better scouting  toomany misses in draft
Get out of the shot gun all the time

I think Burrow prefers the shotgun.