(11-13-2024, 02:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, honestly Tee Higgins isn't worth $29M+. (It's the average of the top 5 salaries at the position)

Transition tag is top 10.

(11-13-2024, 02:56 PM)BigRed75 Wrote: Transition tag is top 10.

And he isn't worth that, either.

(11-13-2024, 02:56 PM)BigRed75 Wrote: Transition tag is top 10.

You're right, I had it backwards. Transition tag is average of top 10 salaries over the past 5 years, or a little over $19M this year. However, if he won't get out there and play hard for the franchise tag this year, what makes you believe that he would do any more, for even less?

#1 :  The Bengals must sign Chase long term in 2025.  None of this Franchise Tag crap on Chase.  Burrow to Chase locked in long term.

#2 :  The Higgins franchise tag money needed to pay Chase, they can't pay both.  

#3 :  If Bengal Franchise tag Higgins 2 year in a row, the Players Union should protest and demand changes to the collective bargaining agreement.  It defeats Free Agency if teams can hold a player in slavery year after year on the Franchise Tag.  That was never the intent of the Franchise Tag, and back to back years would be owners abusing the Players Union.  The Players Union would need to rise up and threaten a strike season over such Owners abuse of Free Agency.

#4 :  Lock in Chase long term with Burrow ASAP in 2025.  Do not drag the Chase contract out. Get it done before The Draft in fact.  They've dragged Chase and his agent out long enough. They said 2024 was too early.  OK, but 2025 it is time to sign Chase long term, and he will be the highest paid WR in NFL ever, but Bengals have to cough up the money.  That means adios to Higgins.  

#5.  Moving on from Higgins, Mixon, Boyd, the Bengals could use WR and RB in early part of drafts coming.  Bengals have did well getting draft picks that they pay less than Veterans for a few years.  There has to be some players on all these darn college teams that can come in here and add weapons to Burrow to Chase.

#6.  The cornerstone to this team is Burrow to Chase,  Burrow is signed long term and Chase needs to be.  They may be the highest paid QB to WR combo in NFL when locked in,  but on that cornerstone you can add weapons to it for Super Bowl.  Financially, Higgins does not factor in, and everybody has known that for a year or two. 

(11-13-2024, 04:46 PM)kevin Wrote: #3 :  If Bengal Franchise tag Higgins 2 year in a row, the Players Union should protest and demand changes to the collective bargaining agreement.  It defeats Free Agency if teams can hold a player in slavery year after year on the Franchise Tag.  That was never the intent of the Franchise Tag, and back to back years would be owners abusing the Players Union.  The Players Union would need to rise up and threaten a strike season over such Owners abuse of Free Agency.

(11-13-2024, 04:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Oh, you don't like that word.  I will mention Baseball and the years of players unable to negotiate, which lead to Curt Flood and Players Union taking Baseball to court.  Baseball has had strikes and so has football.   If teams such as Bengals would abuse the Free Agent Market by slapping the Franchise Tag on the same player over and over, that would be solid reason for The Players Union to go on Strike against The NFL and take the NFL to court.  

However it would be stupid for Bengals to do it, and have Higgins and his agent upset, when the Bengals need that Higgins money to lock in Chase long term.  

However if the Bengals want Higgins so much.  Then give him a long term contract also in good faith.   Do not keep slapping a Franchise Tag on him years after his contract ran out.  I would be all for The Players Union going on strike and taking NFL to court, if players without contracts can be held in limbo by abuse of the Franchise Tag.  Plus upset players and agents are not good for The TEAM in the long run.  

Baseball and Football discovered that without Free Agency, The Players Union is weak.   Abuse of the Franchise Tag should be seen as total attack to eliminate Free Agency and eliminate The Players Union, and why The Players Union should go on strike and take NFL to court if players such as Higgins are held in limbo years after their contracts run out.  It is Union Busting, is exactly what it is. 

Great idea.

Could we re-sign Tyler Eif-hurt and slap the tag on him, too?

(11-13-2024, 05:31 PM)samhain Wrote: Great idea.  

Could we re-sign Tyler Eif-hurt and slap the tag on him, too?

I mean, unlike Tee, Eifert actually made the Pro Bowl...

(11-13-2024, 05:16 PM)kevin Wrote: Oh, you don't like that word.  I will mention Baseball and the years of players unable to negotiate, which lead to Curt Flood and Players Union taking Baseball to court.  Baseball has had strikes and so has football.   If teams such as Bengals would abuse the Free Agent Market by slapping the Franchise Tag on the same player over and over, that would be solid reason for The Players Union to go on Strike against The NFL and take the NFL to court.  

However it would be stupid for Bengals to do it, and have Higgins and his agent upset, when the Bengals need that Higgins money to lock in Chase long term.  

However if the Bengals want Higgins so much.  Then give him a long term contract also in good faith.   Do not keep slapping a Franchise Tag on him years after his contract ran out.  I would be all for The Players Union going on strike and taking NFL to court, if players without contracts can be held in limbo by abuse of the Franchise Tag.  Plus upset players and agents are not good for The TEAM in the long run.  

Baseball and Football discovered that without Free Agency, The Players Union is weak.   Abuse of the Franchise Tag should be seen as total attack to eliminate Free Agency and eliminate The Players Union, and why The Players Union should go on strike and take NFL to court if players such as Higgins are held in limbo years after their contracts run out.  It is Union Busting, is exactly what it is. 

The Union will never strike over the Franchise Tag.  That's because the FT is a complete non-issue for 99% of the membership, as 99% of the players will never be good enough that a team would consider tagging them.

If they didn't strike on principle when the Steelers tagged Leveon Bell two years in a row, a RB with a lot less years in his prime to get a payday, they won't do it for a WR.

Beyond that, with the way the past two seasons have gone, the fully guaranteed FT may be more guaranteed money than Tee can get with a multi-year deal on the open market.  

(11-13-2024, 05:16 PM)kevin Wrote: Oh, you don't like that word.  I will mention Baseball and the years of players unable to negotiate, which lead to Curt Flood and Players Union taking Baseball to court.  Baseball has had strikes and so has football.   If teams such as Bengals would abuse the Free Agent Market by slapping the Franchise Tag on the same player over and over, that would be solid reason for The Players Union to go on Strike against The NFL and take the NFL to court.  

However it would be stupid for Bengals to do it, and have Higgins and his agent upset, when the Bengals need that Higgins money to lock in Chase long term.  

However if the Bengals want Higgins so much.  Then give him a long term contract also in good faith.   Do not keep slapping a Franchise Tag on him years after his contract ran out.  I would be all for The Players Union going on strike and taking NFL to court, if players without contracts can be held in limbo by abuse of the Franchise Tag.  Plus upset players and agents are not good for The TEAM in the long run.  

Baseball and Football discovered that without Free Agency, The Players Union is weak.   Abuse of the Franchise Tag should be seen as total attack to eliminate Free Agency and eliminate The Players Union, and why The Players Union should go on strike and take NFL to court if players such as Higgins are held in limbo years after their contracts run out.  It is Union Busting, is exactly what it is. 

That's a whole lot of word soup not addressing how you apparently believe franchise tagging a player for 1yr/$26m deal is "slavery". 

Say dumb things and people will look at you like you're dumb.

(11-13-2024, 06:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Union will never strike over the Franchise Tag.  That's because the FT is a complete non-issue for 99% of the membership, as 99% of the players will never be good enough that a team would consider tagging them.

If they didn't strike on principle when the Steelers tagged Leveon Bell two years in a row, a RB with a lot less years in his prime to get a payday, they won't do it for a WR.

Beyond that, with the way the past two seasons have gone, the fully guaranteed FT may be more guaranteed money than Tee can get with a multi-year deal on the open market.  

Or Kirk Cousins.
Or Drew Brees (non-consecutive years).
Or Dak Prescott.

I don't even want to tag (or extend) Tee, didn't want to tag him the first time unless we were planning on trading him before the draft. But yeah, pretending that using a mechanic the players negotiated for to be in the CBA would be some overwhelming abuse (or "slavery") and that every single player in the NFL is going to threaten to forego paychecks because of Tee Higgins is just a hilariously bad take.

I think it's time to get the bad juju out and let Tee get his money elsewhere. The contract situations might not have been the main reason that this team got stuck in the mud early on, but it didn't help. It sucked the youthful enthusiasm right out of this group.

I pay Chase what he wants and move on from Tee. I'll definitely miss having him on the team when he actually plays, but it's hard to miss something that you rarely ever have. He's a solid dude, but I wouldn't want to be the team that winds up on the hook for his long-term deal.

Tee is going to have to sign a 1 year prove it deal if he misses any more games. And if he does Bengals can be in the mix since it likely won’t be franchise tag money.

(11-13-2024, 01:39 PM)BigRed75 Wrote: Why not use the transition tag this time?

A big reason is that there'd be no compensation. 

Also, teams know how the Bengals do contracts. All they have to do is guarantee multiple years of the deal and the Bengals will probably not match the offer. 

If you're going to tag him, just franchise him and find a trade partner. Someone will be willing the give up at least a 3rd round pick for him, which is still better than a 2026 comp pick. They just need to swallow their pride and actually accept a deal with another team instead of trying to squeeze every drop they possibly can.

Get use to it, Higgins is leaving, and losing Bengals should have let him leave as he wanted back in Free Agency last March.  

It's too expensive to pay the Franchise Tag price on Tee Higgins and fight with him and his agent doing it.  

Bengals can NOT keep Chase and Higgins in 2025, no way, no how.  Chase should NEVER be a Franchise Tag player, that is too Mike Brown Bengalized to even consider.  

Adios Higgins, and Chase signed long term at a far more expensive contract than Chase was asking for this season.  It's going to cost Bengals a ton to lock in Chase now, but they nee Burrow To Chase LSU Combo.  Burrow and Chase huge contracts means adios to Higgins.  

If the Bengals don't get with it, they are gong to have early draft picks anyway.  Time to bring in new players on the rookie cheap, which is music to Mike Browns ears.  However Bengals can no longer pay Chase his rookie contract, and Chase is going to demand what he is worth, and he is worth plenty.

I still say what I said all along.  The smart move would have been to let Higgins go free agent last March, and lock in Chase a year early to a long term contract.  Now it's going to cost Bengals a whole lot more to lock in Chase long term.  I thought tagging Higgins was stupid in 2024.  The losing record also backs me up on that. Fighting with Higgins and his agent and fighting with Chase and his agent is just TOO MIKE BROWN LOSER FOOTBALL. 

No one else is going to say it, so I will. The Bengals can't tag Tee because they're going to tag Chase.

(11-15-2024, 06:21 PM)puddycat Wrote: No one else is going to say it, so I will. The Bengals can't tag Tee because they're going to tag Chase.

We're not going to tag Chase. We're not that stupid.

Chase is leading the league in yards, receptions, and TDs, but our offensive line has performed 20th in the league so far, so imagine if we can finally get some blockers. Chase could put up some record years, as mentioned in other threads.

We'll pay Chase but hopefully we can also find enough money to improve the line.

(11-15-2024, 06:21 PM)puddycat Wrote: No one else is going to say it, so I will. The Bengals can't tag Tee because they're going to tag Chase.

Chase is on his 5th year option next year.  So there is no need to tag him.

(11-13-2024, 04:46 PM)kevin Wrote: #1 :  The Bengals must sign Chase long term in 2025.  None of this Franchise Tag crap on Chase.  Burrow to Chase locked in long term.

#2 :  The Higgins franchise tag money needed to pay Chase, they can't pay both.  

#3 :  If Bengal Franchise tag Higgins 2 year in a row, the Players Union should protest and demand changes to the collective bargaining agreement.  It defeats Free Agency if teams can hold a player in slavery year after year on the Franchise Tag.  That was never the intent of the Franchise Tag, and back to back years would be owners abusing the Players Union.  The Players Union would need to rise up and threaten a strike season over such Owners abuse of Free Agency.

#4 :  Lock in Chase long term with Burrow ASAP in 2025.  Do not drag the Chase contract out. Get it done before The Draft in fact.  They've dragged Chase and his agent out long enough. They said 2024 was too early.  OK, but 2025 it is time to sign Chase long term, and he will be the highest paid WR in NFL ever, but Bengals have to cough up the money.  That means adios to Higgins.  

#5.  Moving on from Higgins, Mixon, Boyd, the Bengals could use WR and RB in early part of drafts coming.  Bengals have did well getting draft picks that they pay less than Veterans for a few years.  There has to be some players on all these darn college teams that can come in here and add weapons to Burrow to Chase.

#6.  The cornerstone to this team is Burrow to Chase,  Burrow is signed long term and Chase needs to be.  They may be the highest paid QB to WR combo in NFL when locked in,  but on that cornerstone you can add weapons to it for Super Bowl.  Financially, Higgins does not factor in, and everybody has known that for a year or two. 

the cornerstone of this team is the ability , toughness..in the trenches..which we are lacking..even with superlative effort from Burrow and Chase

(11-15-2024, 08:19 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: the cornerstone of this team is the ability , toughness..in the trenches..which we are lacking..even with superlative effort from Burrow and Chase

Right now, the cornerstone of this team is looking soft and malleable, like sandstone. They need to keep Burrow and Chase fed with healthy contracts, and shift gears toward building an interior OL worthy of Joe Burrow. 

Yes, that will take a fundamental change in philosophy from the front office. The good news is that the Bengals will be able to run the ball when they need to, and Joe Burrow might still be able to play ball with his grandkids. The rewards for the franchise will be monumental.