(06-11-2015, 11:51 AM)djs7685 Wrote: DE/DT - Looks like the feared 2013 unit, the band is back together. Peko still sucks though, he hasn't been good for a couple of years now.

Just from memory of watching games throughout the years it seemed that Peko really only had one solid season here IMO.

Prior to that he was always last to the scene and pouncing on the pile.

After that time...  he has diminished as a block eater which seemed to be the only thing he was average at. 

Never really a consistent pocket pusher from day 1.  Which IMO would then make him "one of the best NT's in the league".

As another poster has stated that is where the problem is.  That is simply not true.  No matter how they spin it.

He used to be good, but his play has diminished. He would be better suited as a rotational guy. He still has some good games (like the Saints game), but he just isn't thw work horse he once was.

Hardison and him should switch back and forth. I'm not really sold on Sims. He seems extremely overrated around here.

He gives great effort, he has great character, he's a great teammate, a great citizen.

I can't call him a great player. I call him decent with occasional flashes of pretty good. Maybe he's doing what he's being asked at a high level and it just doesn't show all that much.

I don't think I really see him throwing people around out there.

Maybe he'll be better if he's playing less.

Peko is not as bad as many people claim. He was 29th in the leagu in tackles among D-linemen. If he was getting blown up every play there is no way he could have had that many tackles. Guys who are blocked don't make tackles.

There is a segment of these boards that still try to claim that he was NEVER a good player. This despite the fact that he was a key player on one of the top defenses in the league for years. Mike Zimmer, who is considered a god by some here, has always praised Peko as one of the better NTs in the league. In 2008 Peko finished 4th in the league in tackles by a d-lineman. In 2011 he again finished 4th among D-linemen in tackles. And why I will agree that tackle numbers do not tell the complete story, they also can not be ignored. D-linemen who are blocked don't make tackles.

Some people have just never liked Peko. But then again a lot of the crowd here also claimed Justin Smith was garbage when he played for the Bengals.

All of this being said, I agree that Peko's play seemed to decline last year. But he is no where near as bad as some here claim.

The guy has never been a superstar but he has always been a guy with an relentless motor. He is not a superstar but he isn't a scrub either and he should benefit from Geno Atkins being himself again.

(06-11-2015, 03:02 AM)orangeandblackblood Wrote: I have seen numerous references in other threads, so I thought I would start one for the purposes of debate/discussion of D Peko's contributions and strengths/weaknesses and role moving forward.
He has been one of my favorite players since being drafted in '06. I feel that he has, while never actually being a superstar, made some significant contributions to some very good defenses. Also a model citizen and family man.
I noticed tho, second half of the '14 season, he seemed to be getting just mauled by O linemen.

I like Peko a lot as a human being, great dude.

But he has never been great in my opinion, not even in his prime. He was a good run stopper, but that was it.

He could never penetrate the gaps worth a damn and last year he even fell off as a run stopper.

Dude honestly needs to be replaced.

Here is to hoping Sims plays great, stays healthy and takes his spot for the betterment of the team.

(06-12-2015, 12:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He could never penetrate the gaps worth a damn 

Here is to hoping Sims plays great, stays healthy and takes his spot for the betterment of the team.

1.  Don't you realize that many times a NT is not supposed to penetrate the gaps.

2.  Sims has never been as good as Peko.

(06-12-2015, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Don't you realize that many times a NT is not supposed to penetrate the gaps.

2.  Sims has never been as good as Peko.

If you just want to make stuff up, then sure, let's do that.

Joe Montana has never been as good as Jay Cutler.

omg but peko got teh tackles sumtiems

(06-12-2015, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  Don't you realize that many times a NT is not supposed to penetrate the gaps.

2.  Sims has never been as good as Peko.

1. Don't you realize that when a QB is throwing the ball it is helpful to penetrate gaps even as a NT.

2. Sims can stop the run just as good as Peko, especially now that Peko is starting to fall off, Sims has always been better at penetrating gaps than Peko, especially more now that Peko is starting to fall off, Sims is younger and more athletic than Peko, Sims is not a one trick pony that is falling off, Sims can make splash plays something Peko has never really done etc.

Seriously, the only thing that Peko has on Sims is that he has shown he can stay healthy and Sims even shown that he could do that last season. We have been having this argument for years and i kind of understood the Peko backers claims because he could stay healthy which
Sims hadn't done and Peko WAS good at stopping the run. These arguments are starting to run dry...

(06-12-2015, 02:37 PM)djs7685 Wrote: If you just want to make stuff up, then sure, let's do that.

What part of that do you think I just made up?

Do you think the NT is supposed to abandon his run fit to shoot the gap every play, or do you think Sims has been better than Peko at some point?

Or maybe you think that players who suck and get blocked easily still make a lot of tackles.

Which is it.

(06-12-2015, 02:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: 2. Sims can stop the run just as good as Peko, especially now that Peko is starting to fall off, Sims has always been better at penetrating gaps than Peko, especially more now that Peko is starting to fall off, Sims is younger and more athletic than Peko, Sims is not a one trick pony that is falling off, Sims can make splash plays something Peko has never really done etc.

Seriously, the only thing that Peko has on Sims is that he has shown he can stay healthy and Sims even shown that he could do that last season. We have been having this argument for years and i kind of understood the Peko backers claims because he could stay healthy which
Sims hadn't done and Peko WAS good at stopping the run. These arguments are starting to run dry...

If Sims is better than Peko then why can't he make more tackles or get more sacks?  How exactly does he stop the run better without making tackles?  Does he have some super power where he can slow down runners without touching them?

And what exactly do you mean by "splash plays"? In 7 NFL season Sims has 7 sacks, 19 stuffs, 1 forced fumble, and zero fumbles recovered. In 9 seasons Peko has 13.5 sacks, 27 stuffs, 3 FF, and 3 FR.

(06-12-2015, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What part of that do you think I just made up?

Do you think the NT is supposed to abandon his run fit to shoot the gap every play, or do you think Sims has been better than Peko at some point?

Or maybe you think that players who suck and get blocked easily still make a lot of tackles.

Which is it.

Obviously the issue I had with your statement was the part I mocked by saying Joe Montana was never better than Jay Cutler.

You claimed that Pat Sims was never better than Peko. That's incorrect.

2013


Sims - PFF grades +8.1 overall, +3.4 rush, +3 coverage, +4.6 run, -2.9 penalty - NFL stats - 3 sacks, 7 hits, 14 hurries, 1 batted pass, 36 tackles, 7 assists, 1 missed tackle, 29 stops

Peko - PFF grades -22.3 overall (lol), -9.4 rush, 0 coverage, -13.8 run, +0.9 penalty - NFL stats - 4 sacks, 1 hit, 9 hurries, 0 batted passes, 31 tackles, 9 assists, 5 missed tackles, 24 stops

(06-12-2015, 02:50 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 2013


Sims - PFF grades +8.1 overall, +3.4 rush, +3 coverage, +4.6 run, -2.9 penalty - NFL stats - 3 sacks, 7 hits, 14 hurries, 1 batted pass, 36 tackles, 7 assists, 1 missed tackle, 29 stops

Peko - PFF grades -22.3 overall (lol), -9.4 rush, 0 coverage, -13.8 run, +0.9 penalty - NFL stats - 4 sacks, 1 hit, 9 hurries, 0 batted passes, 31 tackles, 9 assists, 5 missed tackles, 24 stops

Where did you get those "NFL stats"?

(06-12-2015, 02:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Sims is better than Peko then why can't he make more tackles or get more sacks?  How exactly does he stop the run better without making tackles?  Does he have some super power where he can slow down runners without touching them?

And what exactly do you mean by "splash plays"?  In 7 NFL season Sims has 7 sacks, 19 stuffs, 1 forced fumble, and zero fumbles recovered.  In 9 seasons Peko has 13.5 sacks, 27 stuffs, 3 FF, and 3 FR.

He was injured and playing behind a certain player for much of that time Fred.

You also left out an interception that Sims had for us conveniently enuff.

Sims is just more disruptive and i can clearly see it when i watch the 2 play. Sorry you do not.

Plus Peko is getting older and it is showing, like i said i think your Peko backing arguments are running dry...

(06-12-2015, 02:50 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Obviously the issue I had with your statement was the part I mocked by saying Joe Montana was never better than Jay Cutler.

You claimed that Pat Sims was never better than Peko. That's incorrect.

2013


Sims - PFF grades +8.1 overall, +3.4 rush, +3 coverage, +4.6 run, -2.9 penalty - NFL stats - 3 sacks, 7 hits, 14 hurries, 1 batted pass, 36 tackles, 7 assists, 1 missed tackle, 29 stops

Peko - PFF grades -22.3 overall (lol), -9.4 rush, 0 coverage, -13.8 run, +0.9 penalty - NFL stats - 4 sacks, 1 hit, 9 hurries, 0 batted passes, 31 tackles, 9 assists, 5 missed tackles, 24 stops

It is PFF which i have had some issues with but that i cannot help but laugh at.

There is some truth to it, it cannot all be just exaggerated in ones favor.

(06-12-2015, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where did you get those "NFL stats"?

PFF Fred.

(06-12-2015, 03:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Plus Peko is getting older and it is showing, like i said i think your Peko backing arguments are running dry...

Peko outplayed Sims by a large margin last year, and there is barely one year difference in their ages.

Peko born 11-27-84
Sims born 11-29-85

Peko is obviously great because he shares a birthday with Jimi Hendrix and Fredtoast.

(06-12-2015, 03:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: PFF Fred.

Well that explains why they are wrong.

(06-12-2015, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where did you get those "NFL stats"?

PFF. They don't just give random assisted tackles to a guy because he may have been in the picture 10 feet away from a tackle.

It's not like I pulled one guys stats from 1 site and 1 from another. I try to use PFF for everything to remain consistent.

Unless there is a conspiracy of a bias against Peko? That could be it. Either that or he's just not very good. One or the other. :snark:

(06-12-2015, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well that explains why they are wrong.

Okay. You keep on using stats from huge corporations that refuse to go back and amend anything after re-watching each game multiple times.

So what are their "real" stats from 2013, Freddy?

(06-12-2015, 03:11 PM)djs7685 Wrote: PFF. They don't just give random assisted tackles to a guy because he may have been in the picture 10 feet away from a tackle.

It's not like I pulled one guys stats from 1 site and 1 from another. I try to use PFF for everything to remain consistent.

Unless there is a conspiracy of a bias against Peko? That could be it. Either that or he's just not very good. One or the other. :snark:

Then NFL does not credit anyone with a tackle when he was 10 feet away either.  Thanks for demonstrating your knowledge of NFL stat keeping.

Why would you just automatically believe that the guys working for PFF are right and the guys working for the NFL are wrong?