(Yesterday, 01:05 PM)J24 Wrote: Thinking that a 4th rd bust and an undrafted free agent can replace a top 5 player at his position is laughable.

DJ Reader was a 5th round pick by the Texans. I guess that kinda blows a hole in your logic.

(Yesterday, 01:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: DJ Reader was a 5th round pick by the Texans. I guess that kinda blows a hole in your logic.

When we signed him he was an established player and a top guy at his position.  

Bengals defense looks like the old football game from decades ago, where the board vibrates and players dance around, trying to bump into the guy with the football. While the rest of the league is using Madden NFL football game on PS 5. Lol

It is a "perfect" combination of the following:

1) Bad Drafts:
-2021: Ossai (3), Sample (4), Shelvin (4), Hubert (7)
-2022: Hill (1), CTB (2), Carter (3), Anderson (5)
-2023: Murphy (1), Turner (2), Battle (3), Ivey (7)
-2024: Jenkins (2), Jackson (3), Newton (5), Johnson (6), Anthony (7)

Not a single difference maker drafted drafted over the past 4 drafts despite using 2x 1st round picks and 3x 2nd round picks.  We're not even getting any solid production.  Maybe Jenkins.  Maybe Hill and Turner were looking ok before injury.  Murphy can't see the field.  Everyone seems to have regressed.  Tobin constantly not drafting value.  The fact that a couple guys in their basement as a side job (Locked On crew/Goodberry/Sans) can assess these guys WAY better than Tobin is wild.

2) Bad Front Office management/Bad Free Agents:
We all know we let Bates walk thinking that was too much for safety and drafting his replacement in Hill.  We then let Reader walk due to concerns of age/injury.  We replaced with Stone, Bell, and Rankins who have been horrendous.  These are all downgrades to a defense that wasn't really good to begin with (See #3).

3) Coaching:
Defense was never really "good" under Lou.  Here is how the defense ranks in yds/g over the past 4 years.  Even the best year was still average.
-2021: 18th
-2022: 16th
-2023: 31st
-2024: 27th

4) Age/Injury:
Hubbard, Pratt, Hilton all seem slow and stiff.  Sample injury.  How bad must the young guys be to not be able to see the field is staggering, which goes back to #1.

To summarize, BAD drafting + BAD free agents + BAD Coaching + Injury/Age = the disaster known as the 2024 Bengals Defense.

(Yesterday, 01:10 PM)J24 Wrote: When we signed him he was an established player and a top guy at his position.  

Yes, Houston was able to develop a 5th round DT prospect into a household name. The Bengals defensive coaches couldn't do even get a guy taken an entire round sooner to develop into a solid starter. What is that telling you? It tells me that unless those coaches are handed pre-developed players, cultivated by other coaching staffs, they simply cannot get the job done.

It's much too costly to keep re-stocking a Defensive Coordinator's roster with expensive outside talent. The entire team suffers as a result of the payroll demands.

(Yesterday, 01:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, Houston was able to develop a 5th round DT prospect into a household name. The Bengals defensive coaches couldn't do even get a guy taken an entire round sooner to develop into a solid starter. What is that telling you? It tells me that unless those coaches are handed pre-developed players, cultivated by other coaching staffs, they simply cannot get the job done.

It's much too costly to keep re-stocking a Defensive Coordinator's roster with expensive outside talent. The entire team suffers as a result of the payroll demands.

I think it's both. Even Marvin had a bad defense toward the end ....and he was a VERY good defensive coordinator. It's like Goodberry said (and I've never been a huge fan of his), you're asking coaches to coach with one hand tied behind their back. If you're going to continue to roll with suspect talent and evaluations, you better have REALLY good coaches. They don't have a really good DC in Lou Anarumo. They also have shit talent.

(Yesterday, 11:26 AM)J24 Wrote: Lou might have say but he isn't the one that is pulling the trigger on the draft picks and he isn't the one that is letting go Reader and Bates in free agency.

Maybe not letting guys go, but to act like Zac and Lou aren't heavily involved in roster construction doesn't add up to me. Have you noticed we're not getting much outta anybody past the first round in the last 6 years or so... No Geno, Carlos, MJ, Bates, Hubbard types? I feel like the last crew was much better at talent evaluation. It feels like Chase Brown and Logan Wilson are about it.

(Yesterday, 02:49 PM)jason Wrote: Maybe not letting guys go, but to act like Zac and Lou aren't heavily involved in roster construction doesn't add up to me. Have you noticed we're not getting much outta anybody past the first round in the last 6 years or so... No Geno, Carlos, MJ, Bates, Hubbard types? I feel like the last crew was much better at talent evaluation. It feels like Chase Brown and Logan Wilson are about it.

They haven't been good in about a decade at drafting though. Shit, in Marvin's last four drafts, their FIRST round picks were all garbage. There's bad information/evaluation coming from somewhere that predates the current staff, and led to the last regime's demise. I'm for letting some coaches go, but nothing much is gonna change until you fix that issue in the front office. In fact, outside of Burrow, Chase, and somewhat Jonah, the last ten first round picks have been very mediocre to downright trash. That's not a coaching problem. 

With the exception of Trey Hendrickson, what isn't wrong with the defense and entire coaching staff?

Before this season started I was under the impression that practicing against Burrow and Chase every day in practice was making the defense better. Now I realize I was mistaken with that assumption. There is some evidence to this with the Manning Colts and the Brees Saints

(Yesterday, 03:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: They haven't been good in about a decade at drafting though. Shit, in Marvin's last four drafts, their FIRST round picks were all garbage. There's bad information/evaluation coming from somewhere that predates the current staff, and led to the last regime's demise. I'm for letting some coaches go, but nothing much is gonna change until you fix that issue in the front office. In fact, outside of Burrow, Chase, and somewhat Jonah, the last ten first round picks have been very mediocre to downright trash. That's not a coaching problem. 

Now we get back to Mike Brown having the smallest and the cheapest scouting staff in the NFL.  The Bengals scouting staff is a joke compared to other NFL teams. Hell, for years Bengals drafted off that Cincinnati drug store guys list, not a scout, a dude in a drug store, and the picks were awful.   Lack of scouting has killed the Bengals under the 4 decades of Mike Brown.  You can't pick draft picks out of a magazine list, teams need scouts to actually evaluate players.  Also The Combine is over rated because it is Track and Field, not Football.  Bengals scouting of College games is next to Zero.  OK, they do The Senior Bowl and The Combine, but that isn't enough.  AND THIS CAUSES AWFUL DRAFT PICKS. 

I will always site the perfect example of this.  Mike Ditka offered Bengals all of his draft picks plus his round 1 picks the next 2 years to move up and take a running back.  Mike Brown turned it down.  The Bengals took Akili Smith off of the Cincinnati drug store guys list.  However on bringing in Akili Smith, the coaches discovered all of his mechanics were wrong.  Everything Akili Smith did was not NFL worthy.  The coaches saw this on day one.  If the Bengals had scouts, they would have seen it before the draft.  So instead of getting all these Mike Ditka draft picks, they took a quarterback who they discovered in camp did everything wrong, something scouts would have seen if Mike Brown actually hired and paid scouts. 

So Bengals go to The Combine and see weight lifting and running drills.  What the Bengals don't see is who is making THE BLOCKS and THE TACKLES in College.  There is no Blocking orTackling at The Combine, and maybe a big reason why Bengals often struggle in Blocking and Tackling under one Mike Brown.   

(12-02-2024, 04:26 PM)kevin Wrote: There are no wrong answers, except if you say Steelers, because Bengals have gave up a ton of points in other games.

So my question is :  Bengals had a Super Bowl Defense in 2021, so what happened ?   Who is gone ?  How do they rebuild this Defense ?  

I'll say I don't think the D Coach is the problem, he was part of the Super Bowl season.  I have to think the Front Office got rid of too many D Players.  

Again, here is the problem.  If Bengals do get Chase signed long term to go with Burrow, how do you build a Defense to get that Offense back to The Super Bowl.  It's not that Bengals don't score in 2024, it's that they give up too many points.  

OK, Your Turn.   How should The Brown Family and close to a GM Tobin go about getting better D Players in here for 2025 ???

Easy.....get some defensive backs that can cover. Any and every team knows they can throw at will on Cincinnati and be successful. You get good defensive backs and the remaining injured healthy and Cinci would have a good enough defense to win the division. Let me say this clearly......Cincinnati's defensive backs S U C K.......prob the worst Cinci has ever had, and if not the worst ever then damn close.

(Yesterday, 03:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: They haven't been good in about a decade at drafting though. Shit, in Marvin's last four drafts, their FIRST round picks were all garbage. There's bad information/evaluation coming from somewhere that predates the current staff, and led to the last regime's demise. I'm for letting some coaches go, but nothing much is gonna change until you fix that issue in the front office. In fact, outside of Burrow, Chase, and somewhat Jonah, the last ten first round picks have been very mediocre to downright trash. That's not a coaching problem. 

I think Cinci's player personnel/development staff has a total of two members where as Kansas City, I think, has about 15 or 20.

(Yesterday, 11:12 PM)swilson3828 Wrote: Easy.....get some defensive backs that can cover. Any and every team knows they can throw at will on Cincinnati and be successful. You get good defensive backs and the remaining injured healthy and Cinci would have a good enough defense to win the division. Let me say this clearly......Cincinnati's defensive backs S U C K.......prob the worst Cinci has ever had, and if not the worst ever then damn close.

They could have prime Darrelle Revis and Ed Reed back there it wouldn’t matter with this pass rush. A completely washed Sam Hubbard is 2nd on the team in sacks with 2.

Any even halfway decent QB will carve that up no matter who’s in coverage.

(Yesterday, 11:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They could have prime Darrelle Revis and Ed Reed back there  it wouldn’t matter with this pass rush. A completely washed Sam Hubbard is 2nd on the team in sacks with 2.

Any even halfway decent QB will carve that up no matter who’s in coverage.

You're right,  but, I would like to think prime Ed Reed would make more tackles than Geno Stone.

(Yesterday, 11:56 PM)J24 Wrote: You're right,  but, I would like to think prime Ed Reed would make more tackles than Geno Stone.

YOU might be able to make more tackles than Geno Stone.

(Yesterday, 11:14 PM)swilson3828 Wrote: I think Cinci's player personnel/development staff has a total of two members where as Kansas City, I think, has about 15 or 20.

Yes, let's not leave Bengals Mike Brown front office out of reason for the problem on the field, or fixing the problem on the field.  The front office needs to add more scouts or personnel / development.   Last place Bengals have 2.   Right now the Super Bowl Dynasty Kansas City Chiefs have 15 to 20.  So who's doing it right, the Last Place Bengals or The Super Bowl Chiefs ???....Wouldn't Scouts or Personnel / Development be needed to put the right players on Defense and other areas of this losing team. 

(Yesterday, 08:18 PM)kevin Wrote: Now we get back to Mike Brown having the smallest and the cheapest scouting staff in the NFL.  The Bengals scouting staff is a joke compared to other NFL teams. Hell, for years Bengals drafted off that Cincinnati drug store guys list, not a scout, a dude in a drug store, and the picks were awful.   Lack of scouting has killed the Bengals under the 4 decades of Mike Brown.  You can't pick draft picks out of a magazine list, teams need scouts to actually evaluate players.  Also The Combine is over rated because it is Track and Field, not Football.  Bengals scouting of College games is next to Zero.  OK, they do The Senior Bowl and The Combine, but that isn't enough.  AND THIS CAUSES AWFUL DRAFT PICKS. 

I will always site the perfect example of this.  Mike Ditka offered Bengals all of his draft picks plus his round 1 picks the next 2 years to move up and take a running back.  Mike Brown turned it down.  The Bengals took Akili Smith off of the Cincinnati drug store guys list.  However on bringing in Akili Smith, the coaches discovered all of his mechanics were wrong.  Everything Akili Smith did was not NFL worthy.  The coaches saw this on day one.  If the Bengals had scouts, they would have seen it before the draft.  So instead of getting all these Mike Ditka draft picks, they took a quarterback who they discovered in camp did everything wrong, something scouts would have seen if Mike Brown actually hired and paid scouts. 

So Bengals go to The Combine and see weight lifting and running drills.  What the Bengals don't see is who is making THE BLOCKS and THE TACKLES in College.  There is no Blocking orTackling at The Combine, and maybe a big reason why Bengals often struggle in Blocking and Tackling under one Mike Brown.   

Yep, best I remember, Bruce Coslet was not very happy with the pick.

(Today, 12:02 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: YOU might be able to make more tackles than Geno Stone.

My Grandma would be a better safety than Stone.