(12-03-2024, 09:54 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: All these posts about if we just do this, if we just do that, the offense is on fire and we just need a bit better D, etc.  That's all well and good and all true, but the only problem with all of that is that the Brown family owns and runs this team and they are absolute, 100% losers when it comes to running a football team.

So the actual REALITY is that there will almost certainly be no real change, no change in the scouting, in the drafting, in the coaching, in the way the FO does anything.  And even IF they do make a couple changes there is no way they are bringing in a proven, winning coach and even less likely a proven winning coach is going to come here only to be hamstrung by the inept, dysfunctional Brown family.  The facts are that we can most likely only get unproven, low level coaches who are trying to make a name for themselves.

I'm seriously not trying to be a downer Nate.  I don't want to feel negative.  It's the worst feeling not having any excitement about watching the Bengals.  I do other stuff right up until game time and then put my jersey on, sit down and prepare to watch the Bengals figure out a way to lose and half the time figure out a way to lose while setting yet another historically awful NFL record; like the one we just set with Burrow and his stats and losing instead of winning.

I have certainly been frustrated and sometimes negative throughout the decades, but I was always excited and jacked up to watch the Bengals.  All week I would look forward to it.  Even with so much losing, and embarrassment, and awful NFL records set and the worst owners, etc.  Then we got Burrow.  Then for the first time since I have been actively watching the Bengals (I think 34 seasons) I had true, real hope.  Something to be truly excited about.  The corner had finally been turned after 31 seasons of not witnessing a single playoff win.  We got Burrow and Chase and Higgins and Lou and Zac.  We were finally going to be a force for years to come!  We had 2 awesome seasons.  So much excitement, so much hope, so much fun!  And then just like that, it was all gone again.  After 2 years of winning we went back to shit and then that shit turned into nasty, gooey, runny shit this year.  Even with Burrow and Chase having legit MVP seasons.  It's the most disgusting, heartbreaking, most frustrating season of Bengals football I have ever endured. For me personally it makes the 2015 playoff game feel like nothing.  

I never thought I would actually get to the point were I genuinely have no excitement for Bengals football.  People talk about it now then on here, but I am actually there.  They actually broke my spirit.  I have no excitement.  I watched the Steelers game as I watch every Bengals game.  I clapped a couple times as we kept it close, but knew what the inevitable outcome would be.  More losing.  And here we are with Burrow and Chase having an insane season and yet in true Mike Brow/Brown family fashion we sit at 4-8 and out of the playoffs.  We can't beat anyone in our division.  We will end up 2-4 or 1-5 again.  We will probably beat the Steelers next game as they will most likely be resting starters as there fans once again enjoy the excitement of the Steelers winning history while we sit on the couch yet again.

And with all that said the FO, the Brown family is the root cause of all of this.  My spirit was not broken by loses alone.  I, as well as everyone here have endured lots of losing over the decades.  What finally broke my spirit is the true realization that as long as the Brown family owns this team nothing will change.  They will change for no one under any circumstances.  Winning is second in the Brown family culture.  The Bengals will always be losers as long as the Brown family runs this team.  There is no hope.  They do things their way and that's it and the results are losses.  I thought they would change after getting Burrow and Chase and experiencing two real winning seasons.  But alas, nothing will change.  They don't care.  It's their way over winning.  Even with Burrow and Chase.  I will probably never see a better QB and receiver in Cincy in my lifetime and the FO is just pissing it away because of "our way" and stubbornness.

I truly, genuinely hope they prove me wrong.  I hope we win a SB next year or at least can make the playoffs and be competitive.  Actually win some division Games.  Actually beat some good quality teams.

Anyway, just like every week for the last 34 seasons I will put on my jersey next week and sit down and watch the whole game no matter how bad it is.  There will be no excitement, nothing to look forward to.  Just crap defense and most likely a losing season while the FO does noting as usual and wastes maybe 2 of the best players the Bengals may ever have.

who-dey I guess. 

Hey, have to look at solutions is only way I can look at it Mickeypoo. I have been a fan about as long as you, I think 35 seasons now and yes, I 
am completely frustrated and disgusted by this season with Joe, Ja'Marr and Trey having the best season at their positions and we still have only
won 4 games is completely inexcusable.

But we did bring in Trey, DJ, Chido, Hilton, Vonn, Waynes (I know, but big FA at the time) Ted, Cappa and lately Orlando and this was recent.

Things are way different than the Marv days when we didn't go out and get FA's in their prime. As long as we can do something like this again 
and get the Defense back on track with some good FA's in their prime and improve the IOL we aren't as far off as some might think. A new DC 
that actually doesn't just rely on clutch interceptions and fumbles to get the D off the field would be better than what we had during our SB run.

Looking back that is all that Lou relied on, big plays at the biggest moments. We get a better DC and this could certainly change and as we see,
Joe is having his best season of his career and the wrist injury didn't destroy him like a few on here predicted. That was my scare.

Joe Burrow can't play defense.

That said, the evidence of Burrow not being a clutch guy when it matters most is REALLLLY starting to pile up. It's not the biggest issue this team has right now, so it gets a pass. If the Bengals manage to put together a better roster in the next few seasons though and the pattern rears its ugly head though.......

(12-03-2024, 05:46 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Joe Burrow can't play defense.

That said, the evidence of Burrow not being a clutch guy when it matters most is REALLLLY starting to pile up. It's not the biggest issue this team has right now, so it gets a pass. If the Bengals manage to put together a better roster in the next few seasons though and the pattern rears its ugly head though.......

I think with how bad this Defense is we are asking Burrow to be Super Man. It isn't like Mahomes where he gets help from his Defense.

He has had no help from his Defense this year. That can take a toll on your clutch play.

(12-03-2024, 05:46 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Joe Burrow can't play defense.

That said, the evidence of Burrow not being a clutch guy when it matters most is REALLLLY starting to pile up. It's not the biggest issue this team has right now, so it gets a pass. If the Bengals manage to put together a better roster in the next few seasons though and the pattern rears its ugly head though.......

I would disagree with him not being clutch.

He answers back, but the defense keeps crapping the bed and he has to answer back again, and again, and again...

(12-03-2024, 05:52 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I would disagree with him not being clutch.

He answers back, but the defense keeps crapping the bed and he has to answer back again, and again, and again...

2022 AFC title game.

KC game this year.

Strip sack fumble sunday.

These are just three examples at the top of my head. There's a consistent pattern of him having opportunities to win or plant coffin nails but he fails to do it.

(12-03-2024, 05:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think with how bad this Defense is we are asking Burrow to be Super Man. It isn't like Mahomes where he gets help from his Defense.

He has had no help from his Defense this year. That can take a toll on your clutch play.

Not having the 2021-2022 defense to bail you out like they did in two postseasons makes the case for him not being clutch stronger, not weaker.

We can count more on Trey Hendrickson, Sam Hubbard, and Eli Apple being those guys moreso than Burrow. I can name a ton of game-defining plays from them much easier than I can for Joe.

(12-03-2024, 05:53 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: 2022 AFC title game.

KC game this year.

Strip sack fumble sunday.

These are just three examples at the top of my head. There's a consistent pattern of him having opportunities to win or plant coffin nails but he fails to do it.

Like Rugby said, over and over and over again being clutch just isn't possible. Plus McPherson hasn't helped out this year either and
finished. McPherson looked much better against the stealers in this last game though, hope he got his head back on straight.

Joe needs to feel the strip sack coming better though, that is for sure. That wasn't Mims fault when Twatt got him, that was on Joe, 
but the one that went for a TD was on Orlando and on his blindside.

(12-03-2024, 05:55 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Not having the 2021-2022 defense to bail you out like they did in two postseasons makes the case for him not being clutch stronger, not weaker.

We can count more on Trey Hendrickson, Sam Hubbard, and Eli Apple being those guys moreso than Burrow. I can name a ton of game-defining plays from them much easier than I can for Joe.

No one is talking about Mahomes poor clutch play, you know why? His Defense and ST's always helps him out.

It cannot all be on Burrow. He has responded great plenty of times in clutch situations this year, it is just the D once again fails, same
with ST's over and over and over again.

(12-03-2024, 05:53 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: 2022 AFC title game.

KC game this year.

Strip sack fumble sunday.

These are just three examples at the top of my head. There's a consistent pattern of him having opportunities to win or plant coffin nails but he fails to do it.

You are selectively ignoring the times he answered back in clutch fashion in those games, and others, where the defense failed the team. 

Yet Joe and the offense kept answering back and running up the score hoping the defense would make a stop that never occurred.

Including games against the Chiefs, with how the refs call the game, is looking at things through dirty glasses.

(12-03-2024, 06:06 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: You are selectively ignoring the times he answered back in clutch fashion in those games, and others, where the defense failed the team. 

Yet Joe and the offense kept answering back and running up the score hoping the defense would make a stop that never occurred.

Including games against the Chiefs, with how the refs call the game, is looking at things through dirty glasses.

Yeah and I didn't even mention the refs helping Mahomes and the quiefs out....

Imagine going on about “clutch” when this is the company the dude is in:

(12-03-2024, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No one is talking about Mahomes poor clutch play, you know why? His Defense and ST's always helps him out.

It cannot all be on Burrow. He has responded great plenty of times in clutch situations this year, it is just the D once again fails, same
with ST's over and over and over again.

You're not any less clutch just because your team doesn't need you to be. 

I can assure you; people still don't want the ball in Mahomes hands on a game-winning drive. 

(12-03-2024, 06:06 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: You are selectively ignoring the times he answered back in clutch fashion in those games, and others, where the defense failed the team. 

Yet Joe and the offense kept answering back and running up the score hoping the defense would make a stop that never occurred.

Including games against the Chiefs, with how the refs call the game, is looking at things through dirty glasses.

The seasons we went to the SB and AFC title game: "You can't say that the defense bailed Burrow out"

This season: Burrow isn't winning games because the defense is so ass.


Pick one. You can't have both. The team was more successful when Burrow didn't have to be that guy 100 percent of the time. 

Now that he has to be, we're not winning games. And in those losses, I can point to many game-defining moments where Burrow and the offense failed to show up on multiple occasions.

(12-03-2024, 09:36 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: The seasons we went to the SB and AFC title game: "You can't say that the defense bailed Burrow out"

This season: Burrow isn't winning games because the defense is so ass.


Pick one. You can't have both. The team was more successful when Burrow didn't have to be that guy 100 percent of the time. 

Now that he has to be, we're not winning games. And in those losses, I can point to many game-defining moments where Burrow and the offense failed to show up on multiple occasions.

You are chasing your tail here, and making my point for me, which I appreciate.

I believe Burrow's performance this season, stacked up against other QB's who have done the same, is clear evidence he is not the problem.

I agree he needs help, which was my point about him having to be clutch over and over again, but not getting help this season after repeatedly stepping up to the plate. Hence falling short multiple times this season...

(12-02-2024, 02:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yessir, I would like to see the Bengals go after Trey Smith in free agency, even if they make him the one "big" pickup this year. He's currently grading 78.6 for the season on PFF, compared to 53 for Alex Cappa. Cappa has really fallen off of the proverbial cliff, he at least mustered 64.9 on the season in '23, but still way behind the 75.9 that Trey Smith recorded in '23.

Cappa has never had a 75.9 season lol  73.4 in 2021 and every other year it's been in the lower 60's until this year. He needs to go as well.

(12-02-2024, 02:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yessir, I would like to see the Bengals go after Trey Smith in free agency, even if they make him the one "big" pickup this year. He's currently grading 78.6 for the season on PFF, compared to 53 for Alex Cappa. Cappa has really fallen off of the proverbial cliff, he at least mustered 64.9 on the season in '23, but still way behind the 75.9 that Trey Smith recorded in '23.

(12-03-2024, 10:50 PM)pulses Wrote: Cappa has never had a 75.9 season lol  73.4 in 2021 and every other year it's been in the lower 60's until this year. He needs to go as well.

That was the point of me comparing the PFF scores from this year and last between Trey Smith and Alex Cappa. I'm saying that I'd like the Bengals "major" free agent acquisition to be Trey Smith.

(12-03-2024, 05:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey, have to look at solutions is only way I can look at it Mickeypoo. I have been a fan about as long as you, I think 35 seasons now and yes, I 
am completely frustrated and disgusted by this season with Joe, Ja'Marr and Trey having the best season at their positions and we still have only
won 4 games is completely inexcusable.

But we did bring in Trey, DJ, Chido, Hilton, Vonn, Waynes (I know, but big FA at the time) Ted, Cappa and lately Orlando and this was recent.

Things are way different than the Marv days when we didn't go out and get FA's in their prime. As long as we can do something like this again 
and get the Defense back on track with some good FA's in their prime and improve the IOL we aren't as far off as some might think. A new DC 
that actually doesn't just rely on clutch interceptions and fumbles to get the D off the field would be better than what we had during our SB run.

Looking back that is all that Lou relied on, big plays at the biggest moments. We get a better DC and this could certainly change and as we see,
Joe is having his best season of his career and the wrist injury didn't destroy him like a few on here predicted. That was my scare.

I genuinely appreciate everyone here who is able to remain at least somewhat positive and hopeful.  I hope you are right.  I am glad some can still get excited for Bengals football.  I hope they are able to fix things for next year.

Unfortunately for me this season broke my spirit.  If you can't win with Burrow and the O doing what they are doing then damn.  The Brown family is not serious about running an NFL team.  They are serious about doing it their way and screw everything else.  Loyalty over results.  Money over results.  They won't fire anyone while still under contract as an example.  They cost themselves millions by not getting Chase deal done as another.  They have 2 scouts.  2!!!!!!   These are very unserious people when it comes to football.

Yes, we signed some FA's.  How have they turned out?  How have the draft picks turned out for the D?  2 scouts.  smh

I am just never falling for the fake hype again.  These are unserious, inept people running the Bengals.  An old school lawyer given an NFL team and now a daughter with no real world business experience who learned from one of the worst owners in all of pro sports.  If they are really changing then where is the real GM, real scouting department, where is the restructure of football minded serious people in the org instead of all top people being family/ friends?  They need to show me some REAL change, not just some scrub FA's.  Fire some coaches before their contract ends.  Hold some people accountable for not wining.  Show me some REAL effort.   Not some bs appeasement and even then they screw that up.

I agree on the Burrow wrist for sure.  That was very concerning.   It is great watching the offense do what they are doing.  Too bad it is being wasted/ruined because of complete incompetence at the top and an unwillingness to change.

I guess I just don't see things as way different as some do.  The entire org is the same.  Other than some FA's nothing has changed.   

(12-04-2024, 11:40 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I genuinely appreciate everyone here who is able to remain at least somewhat positive and hopeful.  I hope you are right.  I am glad some can still get excited for Bengals football.  I hope they are able to fix things for next year.

Unfortunately for me this season broke my spirit.  If you can't win with Burrow and the O doing what they are doing then damn.  The Brown family is not serious about running an NFL team.  They are serious about doing it their way and screw everything else.  Loyalty over results.  Money over results.  They won't fire anyone while still under contract as an example.  They cost themselves millions by not getting Chase deal done as another.  They have 2 scouts.  2!!!!!!   These are very unserious people when it comes to football.

Yes, we signed some FA's.  How have they turned out?  How have the draft picks turned out for the D?  2 scouts.  smh

I am just never falling for the fake hype again.  These are unserious, inept people running the Bengals.  An old school lawyer given an NFL team and now a daughter with no real world business experience who learned from one of the worst owners in all of pro sports.  If they are really changing then where is the real GM, real scouting department, where is the restructure of football minded serious people in the org instead of all top people being family/ friends?  They need to show me some REAL change, not just some scrub FA's.  Fire some coaches before their contract ends.  Hold some people accountable for not wining.  Show me some REAL effort.   Not some bs appeasement and even then they screw that up.

I agree on the Burrow wrist for sure.  That was very concerning.   It is great watching the offense do what they are doing.  Too bad it is being wasted/ruined because of complete incompetence at the top and an unwillingness to change.

I guess I just don't see things as way different as some do.  The entire org is the same.  Other than some FA's nothing has changed.   

I understand a lot of what you say here wholeheartedly bud. The Blackburn girls growing up could help and we have seen some of it on social
media and such where they seem on top of their game. Maybe they can bring in some change and the old man cannot live forever. Sad when 
anyone makes their life a problem for someone else, let alone millions of fans who give him money buying his product.

The thing is, I want the change you are talking about as well, but I have seen a start with the FA I mentioned in getting some top FA's in their
prime in Trey and DJ namely. Maybe more change will come, my Bengals spirit will always be strong and cannot be broken. I am weird this way
and only root for the team more when BS is going on. Karma has to change as well, I know some don't believe in this but when you are a team
like the stealers or Chefs and need the refs to help you win, that eventually catches up to you. 

We will see how much change happens in the Offseason. If we fire the entire Defensive staff and Pollack and replace them with decent coaches
and have a decent FA and Draft we are right back in this thing with Burrow at the helm playing the best of his career.

(12-02-2024, 03:31 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm so sick of the Chefs, the only reason they have a winning record is the referees, and everyone besides their fans can see it. The league wants them to 3 peat before Swift's contract with Kelsey is up.

BUNDLE-ROOSKI!!!

BUNDLE-ROOSKI-DOO!

(12-04-2024, 03:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I understand a lot of what you say here wholeheartedly bud. The Blackburn girls growing up could help and we have seen some of it on social
media and such where they seem on top of their game. Maybe they can bring in some change and the old man cannot live forever. Sad when 
anyone makes their life a problem for someone else, let alone millions of fans who give him money buying his product.

The thing is, I want the change you are talking about as well, but I have seen a start with the FA I mentioned in getting some top FA's in their
prime in Trey and DJ namely. Maybe more change will come, my Bengals spirit will always be strong and cannot be broken. I am weird this way
and only root for the team more when BS is going on. Karma has to change as well, I know some don't believe in this but when you are a team
like the stealers or Chefs and need the refs to help you win, that eventually catches up to you. 

We will see how much change happens in the Offseason. If we fire the entire Defensive staff and Pollack and replace them with decent coaches
and have a decent FA and Draft we are right back in this thing with Burrow at the helm playing the best of his career.

I also understand what you are saying.  

I will also elaborate on my "broke my spirit" feeling.  I will always be a Bengals fan.  I will always want them to win.  I never want to see them lose, even for better draft position.  I am a fierce competitor in sports, games, etc.  The one and only time I ever wanted to see a loss was the Miami game to get Burrow if I am remembering that correctly.  I will still watch every game, I will still put on my jersey, I will still make some kind of dip for the game.  It's that I just don't feel any excitement really.  Hopefully it comes back next year, but after that Patriots game it just disappeared this year.   

The sudden swing from 31 years of being a laughing stock and losing in new and horrific ways to the insane excitement and hope after getting Burrow, Chase, Higgins, etc and almost winning a SB and then barely missing again the next year to almost instantly back to horrific crap again the last 2 years was just too much for my brain to overcome.  Best I can describe it is that I went numb.  Just unwilling to go through the excitement/hope and then ultimate outcome of losing again.  A subconscious mental defense mechanism. I don't know.  I just sit and watch pretty much emotionless expecting some disaster.  

I used to be crazy insane.  Jumping all around every touchdown, screaming, yelling, completely full of excitement and hope.  It's just gone man and it sucks.  I watch no other sports.  And even if I did it would be the Reds and well....................they are not going to help the lack of excitement and numbness.  Ha ha!   I am not saying it makes my life sad.  I am a very happy person, but when it comes to Bengals football I am just numb now. 

Oh well.  Hopefully the FO does make some changes that give me and others hope and next year this is just a distant bad memory as we destroy everyone on the way to the SB.