(12-05-2024, 08:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People gotta stop repeating this. Anyone who’s not currently employed as a HC would absolutely come here because of Burrow. There’s only 32 of these jobs in the world, and there’s only about 4-5 that come with a world class QB.

While in most cases I would agree, someone like BB has rings and a retirement date to start the clock on his gold jacket. Yes, everyone would love Burrow, but maybe not this ownership. Ownership and the front office has shown often that their dysfunction can tank a season even with elite talents. Bill has been around long enough to know the organizations of the NFL, players who were here, etc. He can pick and choose teams, or sit in the booth. He coaches on his terms. He is from the Parcells tree. Mr. Cook the Dinner, Shop for the Groceries, Parcells. The Bengals have a hard time letting that happen. Happened to Marvin Lewis, and some say they moved slightly since, but all they got was a position coach from an actual good team, that stunk it up until Burrow and Chase were reunited. Rumor has it that was one issue in Atlanta; that he wanted too much control. 

Now Vrabel, him I don't know. He has far less juice than BB, so it could be a talent plus dollar signs would bring him in. He will have choices, though. I mean, players join horrible teams all the time and their careers are much shorter. 

A kind of an aside, is it Zach had little to no choice or decision making in the draft picks/ FA signings or was he green lighting us getting these bums?

(12-05-2024, 09:58 PM)Destro Wrote: While in most cases I would agree, someone like BB has rings and a retirement date to start the clock on his gold jacket. Yes, everyone would love Burrow, but maybe not this ownership. Ownership and the front office has shown often that their dysfunction can tank a season even with elite talents. Bill has been around long enough to know the organizations of the NFL, players who were here, etc. He can pick and choose teams, or sit in the booth. He coaches on his terms. He is from the Parcells tree. Mr. Cook the Dinner, Shop for the Groceries, Parcells. The Bengals have a hard time letting that happen. Happened to Marvin Lewis, and some say they moved slightly since, but all they got was a position coach from an actual good team, that stunk it up until Burrow and Chase were reunited. Rumor has it that was one issue in Atlanta; that he wanted too much control. 

Now Vrabel, him I don't know. He has far less juice than BB, so it could be a talent plus dollar signs would bring him in. He will have choices, though. I mean, players join horrible teams all the time and their careers are much shorter. 

A kind of an aside, is it Zach had little to no choice or decision making in the draft picks/ FA signings or was he green lighting us getting these bums?

The ironic thing is Belichick will probably end up in Dallas anyway with another meddling owner after people spent months saying he would never come here.

(12-05-2024, 10:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The ironic thing is Belichick will probably end up in Dallas anyway with another meddling owner after people spent months saying he would never come here.

Belicheat is headed to UNC

(12-05-2024, 10:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The ironic thing is Belichick will probably end up in Dallas anyway with another meddling owner after people spent months saying he would never come here.

Wouldn't say you are wrong there. Dallas just seems to draws people in, but that crypt keeper needs to be the puppet master behind everything and have his face shown at every turn. Is and has been bad owners, but Jerry Jones is probably the biggest "look at me" owner of them all.

(12-05-2024, 10:47 PM)Destro Wrote: Wouldn't say you are wrong there. Dallas just seems to draws people in, but that crypt keeper needs to be the puppet master behind everything and have his face shown at every turn. Is and has been bad owners, but Jerry Jones is probably the biggest "look at me" owner of them all.

Sometimes Jerry gets desperate and signs a strong coach to bail him out.  Parcells would be the best example.  It seems generally understood that any coach that demands power has an imminent expiration date in that organization.

(12-05-2024, 10:06 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Belicheat is headed to UNC

I just can't picture him demeaning himself to try to connect to and recruit 16 and 17-year-olds. I think he'll go back to the NFL for that all-time wins record.

(12-05-2024, 10:54 PM)samhain Wrote: Sometimes Jerry gets desperate and signs a strong coach to bail him out.  Parcells would be the best example.  It seems generally understood that any coach that demands power has an imminent expiration date in that organization.

Parcells is actually who I was thinking about mentioning, too, after I had just mentioned his "shop for the groceries" quote, then he goes to coach for Jerry Jones. I guess Jerry Jnes will sign those big checks.

Looking back, I'm not sure Frank Reich ever got a fair shot at head coach. He came into Indy for Luck's last year after he was injured. He went to the playoffs in '18 with Luck, went 7-9 in '19 with Brissett, back to playoffs in '20 with old man Rivers, just missed with Wentz, and started 3-5-1 with Matt Ryan before getting fired and Jeff Saturday finishing off the season 1-7. He went to Carolina where he started 1-10 after being given Bryce Young over his choice JT Stroud and then being forced to start Young on top of it. Panthers are 4-14 since firing Reich. Reich also has a history in the league that should let him put a staff together. I'm NOT pounding the table for this guy, just putting the name out there.

(12-05-2024, 10:55 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I just can't picture him demeaning himself to try to connect to and recruit 16 and 17-year-olds. I think he'll go back to the NFL for that all-time wins record.

Maybe, but he's interviewed with them. On the flip side, most 16 and 17 recruits would probably love to play for him, and at the college level he would have the total control he was used to in NE and would probably not get again in the NFL. 

(12-05-2024, 09:58 PM)Destro Wrote: While in most cases I would agree, someone like BB has rings and a retirement date to start the clock on his gold jacket. Yes, everyone would love Burrow, but maybe not this ownership. Ownership and the front office has shown often that their dysfunction can tank a season even with elite talents. Bill has been around long enough to know the organizations of the NFL, players who were here, etc. He can pick and choose teams, or sit in the booth. He coaches on his terms. He is from the Parcells tree. Mr. Cook the Dinner, Shop for the Groceries, Parcells. The Bengals have a hard time letting that happen. Happened to Marvin Lewis, and some say they moved slightly since, but all they got was a position coach from an actual good team, that stunk it up until Burrow and Chase were reunited. Rumor has it that was one issue in Atlanta; that he wanted too much control. 

Now Vrabel, him I don't know. He has far less juice than BB, so it could be a talent plus dollar signs would bring him in. He will have choices, though. I mean, players join horrible teams all the time and their careers are much shorter. 

A kind of an aside, is it Zach had little to no choice or decision making in the draft picks/ FA signings or was he green lighting us getting these bums?

Bums were greenlit before Zac.....

(12-03-2024, 04:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except Zac is the HEAD COACH. So it's not "his offense" it's "his team".

-With Zac we're always going to start the season in a hole from being unprepared to start the season, normally 0-2. 
-We're not going to be a physically tough team.
-We're going to struggle in the AFCN as long as our opponent doesn't have a trash tier backup player playing.
-We're never going to be a good rushing team and it's always going to be neglected for more passes (Joe Burrow leads the league in pass attempts, we're 30th in rushing attempts).
-We'll never have accountability, because Zac won't fire coaches who are doing terrible jobs.

It's ZT's offense & ZT is calling the plays. Bengals offense is EXCELLENT, generally speaking. I can't just ignore ZT's work on that side of the ball because I'm frustrated at other things.


I agree with a lot of your points, but also feel that ZT can fix those things if he focusses on being 100% head coach and splits his time between the 3 phases and studying clock/situational strategies.


The rest of the "we'll nevers" or "we're not going tos" is just a feeling because you're sad. Be a man. I'm not going to have such defeatist, doom & gloom emotions OVER OTHER MEN'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS & FAILURES. ZT is a smart guy. I believe he will get things right. The handling of contracts on the defensive side of the ball left the cupboard bare & Lou/Pollack are not developing anything quickly or even on a level of avg. Changes have to be made, but I don't think the HC whom the locker room HE CREATED still loves & believes in is the issue.

(12-07-2024, 05:30 AM)Wyche Wrote: Bums were greenlit before Zac.....

Plenty of bums these years, so nothing changed.

Based on genuine interest from top tier candidates. I'm putting Zac being replaced at 45 percent. With any other competent organization this should be at 90

(12-07-2024, 10:38 AM)Destro Wrote: Plenty of bums these years, so nothing changed.

My point exactly. At some point the GM position needs addressed and the scouting department expanded, otherwise it's not going to change.  Regardless of who roams the sidelines. This franchise has never had sustained success, besides Marvin's five year run that yielded no postseason wins. Wyche's tenure was up and down. Gregg's team stumbled to 7-9 after the Super Bowl. Paul Brown had some good years, but couldn't get past the Stoolers into the playoffs. History shows that maybe they should reevaluate how they run the personnel department. 

(12-07-2024, 10:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote: It's ZT's offense & ZT is calling the plays. Bengals offense is EXCELLENT, generally speaking. I can't just ignore ZT's work on that side of the ball because I'm frustrated at other things.


I agree with a lot of your points, but also feel that ZT can fix those things if he focusses on being 100% head coach and splits his time between the 3 phases and studying clock/situational strategies.


The rest of the "we'll nevers" or "we're not going tos" is just a feeling because you're sad. Be a man. I'm not going to have such defeatist, doom & gloom emotions OVER OTHER MEN'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS & FAILURES. ZT is a smart guy. I believe he will get things right. The handling of contracts on the defensive side of the ball left the cupboard bare & Lou/Pollack are not developing anything quickly or even on a level of avg. Changes have to be made, but I don't think the HC whom the locker room HE CREATED still loves & believes in is the issue.

Zac Taylor has also never produced even an average rush offense the entire time he's been in Cincy. They are also always near the bottom of rhe league in Screens and RPOs. The offensive scheme is mostly get as many guys in routes as they can and let Joe Burrow diagnose and makes plays. Very simple schematically but it's still difficult on the players.

(12-07-2024, 04:05 PM)Synric Wrote: Zac Taylor has also never produced even an average rush offense the entire time he's been in Cincy. They are also always near the bottom of rhe league in Screens and RPOs. The offensive scheme is mostly get as many guys in routes as they can and let Joe Burrow diagnose and makes plays. Very simple schematically but it's still difficult on the players.

In a nutshell, there it is.

(12-07-2024, 04:05 PM)Synric Wrote: Zac Taylor has also never produced even an average rush offense the entire time he's been in Cincy. They are also always near the bottom of rhe league in Screens and RPOs. The offensive scheme is mostly get as many guys in routes as they can and let Joe Burrow diagnose and makes plays. Very simple schematically but it's still difficult on the players.

Facts.

No QB has it easier than Goff right now pic.twitter.com/VkSnR1tJIp

— Steven Patton (@PattonAnalytics) December 6, 2024

(12-07-2024, 10:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote: It's ZT's offense & ZT is calling the plays. Bengals offense is EXCELLENT, generally speaking. I can't just ignore ZT's work on that side of the ball because I'm frustrated at other things.


I agree with a lot of your points, but also feel that ZT can fix those things if he focusses on being 100% head coach and splits his time between the 3 phases and studying clock/situational strategies.


The rest of the "we'll nevers" or "we're not going tos" is just a feeling because you're sad. Be a man. I'm not going to have such defeatist, doom & gloom emotions OVER OTHER MEN'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS & FAILURES. ZT is a smart guy. I believe he will get things right. The handling of contracts on the defensive side of the ball left the cupboard bare & Lou/Pollack are not developing anything quickly or even on a level of avg. Changes have to be made, but I don't think the HC whom the locker room HE CREATED still loves & believes in is the issue.

Why are Lou and Pollack getting all the finger pointing at them as far as development? Who has Zac, Brian, Pitcher or whoever developed on the other side of the ball? Burton? Drew Sample? Ryan Finley (who they traded up for)? Charlie Jones? Iosivas?... They took the training wheels off of Chase Brown, but I can't think of anyone else who wasn't already a thing.

(12-07-2024, 10:34 AM)PDub80 Wrote: It's ZT's offense & ZT is calling the plays. Bengals offense is EXCELLENT, generally speaking. I can't just ignore ZT's work on that side of the ball because I'm frustrated at other things.

I agree with a lot of your points, but also feel that ZT can fix those things if he focusses on being 100% head coach and splits his time between the 3 phases and studying clock/situational strategies.

The rest of the "we'll nevers" or "we're not going tos" is just a feeling because you're sad. Be a man. I'm not going to have such defeatist, doom & gloom emotions OVER OTHER MEN'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS & FAILURES. ZT is a smart guy. I believe he will get things right. The handling of contracts on the defensive side of the ball left the cupboard bare & Lou/Pollack are not developing anything quickly or even on a level of avg. Changes have to be made, but I don't think the HC whom the locker room HE CREATED still loves & believes in is the issue.

I am fine, but I feel like you either forgot the ninja for the second half of your post to point out that it's a parody... or you seem to have some rather strong not-entirely-platonic feelings towards Zac you clearly need to work through. 

You say he can fix those things, but the start of the season has been an issue for 6 years now. Last offseason he even talked about it and said he was going to be different, but then he wasn't and they weren't. If a guy spends 6 years showing you who he is and continues to be that way despite telling you he'll try otherwise, you just need to accept that's who he is. That's not being "sad" or "not being a man" (lol, seriously dude? You sure you didn't mean to ninja that?) it's just recognizing and accepting reality.

(12-07-2024, 04:18 PM)jason Wrote: Why are Lou and Pollack getting all the finger pointing at them as far as development? Who has Zac, Brian, Pitcher or whoever developed on the other side of the ball? Burton? Drew Sample? Ryan Finley (who they traded up for)? Charlie Jones? Iosivas?... They took the training wheels off of Chase Brown, but I can't think of anyone else who wasn't already a thing.

Sample is one of the best blocking Tight Ends in the league. Why are you hacking on him and lumping him in with Burton and Finley?