There's no absolute way we can afford Jamarr and anything but cheap vets and guys on their rookie deals for the WR position. Just looking at the positional spending by team in Sportrac makes this painfully obvious. We're already 4th in the league without Chase's new contract. We just can't overload 3 posistions (QB, WR1 and WR2) and expect the team not to suffer.

Burrow is just going to have to learn to get the ball to these other guys. If Burton and Yoshi can just step up, I think we'd be good as we're only 4-4 this year when Tee plays and he's only went over 100 yards once in 8 games. Paying $20 million+/year just doesn't make sense.

Maybe we can cut some guys on the defense and save money there (Rankins, Hill?, Stone and Hubbard), but we're still going to need FA's to try to stabilize the D. It'll be a very interesting offseason.

(12-13-2024, 01:46 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: There's no absolute way we can afford Jamarr and anything but cheap vets and guys on their rookie deals for the WR position.  Just looking at the positional spending by team in Sportrac makes this painfully obvious.  We're already 4th in the league without Chase's new contract.  We just can't overload 3 posistions (QB, WR1 and WR2) and expect the team not to suffer.  

Burrow is just going to have to learn to get the ball to these other guys.  If Burton and Yoshi can just step up, I think we'd be good as we're only 4-4 this year when Tee plays and he's only went over 100 yards once in 8 games.  Paying $20 million+/year just doesn't make sense.

Maybe we can cut some guys on the defense and save money there (Rankins, Hill?, Stone and Hubbard), but we're still going to need FA's to try to stabilize the D.  It'll be a very interesting offseason.

This is simply not true. We have plenty of cap space. The $62 mil figure being bandied about IS a touch high (no PS numbers and only 42 players signed), but it also does not take into account a Burrow restructure (+19 mil). Nor cutting any dead weight (Rankins, Cappa, Hubbard, Stone, Moss, McPherson, etc). 

The simple truth is, beyond Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson, and Higgins, no one on the team deserves a lot of money. There are some who earn their $7-$15 mil dollar pay (BJ Hill, L. Wilson), some are borderline (OBJ, Hilton, Pratt, Karras), and some who flat out are not atm (Cappa, Ramkins, Stone, Hubbard, Moss, McPherson). 

There is more than enough to pay Tee & Chase, bring back a few other vets (BJ Hill, Hilton, Gesicki, ADG, Hudson, Bachie) and/or add some talent at multiple spots (IOL, DT, S, DE). Now, not necessarily ALL the vets and ALL the spots, but multiples for both.

There is not a real big fish DT worthy of big money. Hill is #4 on some lists. But it is a pretty good DT crop with 4 guys with Rd1 grades from Kiper. 

Ditto DE/EDGE & TE (Gesicki #1 on some lists). But the draft has a lot of good pass rushers, though most of the high emd guys are OLB types and the true DEs mostly more 2nd/3rd round guys.

And while it is true we cannot spend $15-$20 per spot to fill all our holes (DT, NT, DE2, 2 IOL spots, 2 S spots, CB1,TE1) that was never an option. Too many holes. 

Let's not create another by letting Higgins walk. We still have not replaced Bates (drafted Hill, signed Scott, signed Stone). Nor Reader (moved Hill to NT, signed Rankins, drafted Jenkins AND Jackson). And our early attempt to replace Tee was Burton. Hell, we have not even been able to replace Bell (Scott, Battle, Bell 2.0). 

By my count, in terms of picks: a first, and second, and three thirds, and $25 mil in FA spending to get what? Half a season of decent CB play from our 1st round safety and a flash or two from Jenkins? 

When ZT came in, he nearly aced the big FA moves (Reader, Hendrickson, Chido, Bell, Hilton, Hill trade). We had productive drafted players on the roster (Bates, Mixon, Boyd, Hubbard). And some of the early drafts yoelded good resukts (Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Pratt (was he pre ZT), L. Wilson. 

But since the SB, it has been mostly crap. OBJ, Karras, and Cappa were upgrades from a disaster OL, but we are still mediocre paying top dollar. Scott, Stone, & Rankins in FA. Revolving door at TE (Smith terrible, Hurst & Gesicki good). 

The draft? After Chase in 2021: 2: Carman, 3: Ossai, 4: Cam Sample, 4: Shelvin, 4: D. Smith, 5: McPherson, 6: T. Hill, 6: Evans, 7: Hubert. 

2022: 1: D. Hill, 2: CTB, 3: Carter, 4: Volson, 5: T. Anderson, 7: Gunter. 

2023: 1: Murphy, 2: DJ Turner, 3: Battle, 4: C. Jones, 5: C. Brown, 6: Iosivas, 6: Robbins, 7: Ivey. 

2024: 1: Mims, 2: Jenkins, 3: Burton, 3: Jackson, 4: All, 5: Newton, 6: McLachlan, 6: C. Johnson, 7: Anthony, 7: Lee. 

Brown is likely the best pick of that bunch so far? McPherson for two years 2nd? CTB for a year? Turner for a half year? Mims' year this year? Yoshi's? Battle's limited role last year? Lordy.

(12-12-2024, 11:27 PM)TheFan Wrote: The money is already in the defense and they suck. Along with almost all of our top draft picks from the last 4 years. 

The Bengals are top 5 in most expensive defense in the NFL in 2024. Cut Hubbard, Pratt, Rankins, Stone, Bell. Lots of money freed up with pretty much no loss. 

The Bengals were in the top 5 for money paid to the defense in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024.

all im saying if we have the #1 QB we dont need 2 #1 WRs   

(12-13-2024, 02:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The draft? After Chase in 2021: 2: Carman, 3: Ossai, 4: Cam Sample, 4: Shelvin, 4: D. Smith, 5: McPherson, 6: T. Hill, 6: Evans, 7: Hubert. 

2022: 1: D. Hill, 2: CTB, 3: Carter, 4: Volson, 5: T. Anderson, 7: Gunter. 

2023: 1: Murphy, 2: DJ Turner, 3: Battle, 4: C. Jones, 5: C. Brown, 6: Iosivas, 6: Robbins, 7: Ivey. 

2024: 1: Mims, 2: Jenkins, 3: Burton, 3: Jackson, 4: All, 5: Newton, 6: McLachlan, 6: C. Johnson, 7: Anthony, 7: Lee. 

Brown is likely the best pick of that bunch so far? McPherson for two years 2nd? CTB for a year? Turner for a half year? Lordy. 

this is UGLY

This is all on Tobin. The draft and replace strategy is legit and one all of us board GM would implement, if it can be executed properly. It hasn't been, and I don't get why no one in the family has concerns with this failure.

(12-13-2024, 02:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: This is all on Tobin. The draft and replace strategy is legit and one all of us board GM would implement, if it can be executed properly. It hasn't been, and I don't get why no one in the family has concerns with this failure.

Because people are still paying to come to the games. That has to stop.

(12-13-2024, 01:46 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: There's no absolute way we can afford Jamarr and anything but cheap vets and guys on their rookie deals for the WR position. Just looking at the positional spending by team in Sportrac makes this painfully obvious. We're already 4th in the league without Chase's new contract. We just can't overload 3 posistions (QB, WR1 and WR2) and expect the team not to suffer.

Burrow is just going to have to learn to get the ball to these other guys. If Burton and Yoshi can just step up, I think we'd be good as we're only 4-4 this year when Tee plays and he's only went over 100 yards once in 8 games. Paying $20 million+/year just doesn't make sense.

Maybe we can cut some guys on the defense and save money there (Rankins, Hill?, Stone and Hubbard), but we're still going to need FA's to try to stabilize the D. It'll be a very interesting offseason.

Philadelphia seems to have made "overloading" on those 3 positions work.

(12-13-2024, 02:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: this is UGLY

Agreed.

While there are some starters in there, no slam dunks.
At best we've seen periods of good play from guys like CTB, Hill, Turner, but not to the point yet where we can confidently say, "We're great at this spot. Extend that man."

JaMarr Chase was the last Pro Bowl-caliber guy on O/D they've drafted.

The consistently good teams draft and develop well to replace their expensive veterans and they keep their elite core.
Keep Hendrickson, keep Chase, keep Burrow from this current group.
OBJ, Wilson, Higgins probably next on the list as good but I wouldn't be too worried about TOO much of a dropoff.
Backfill all others as contracts allow.

(12-13-2024, 02:42 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: all im saying if we have the #1 QB we dont need 2 #1 WRs   

Correct.

The best thing to give Joe Burrow is time to throw, not an often injured WR. David Boston was amazing while healthy, but was never great for that same reason.

I would love to see the Bengals invest the $25M, earmarked for Tee, to pick up two dominant guards in free agency. If not, sell out on defense and pick up an elite d-lineman to help out Trey. I think a lot of the secondary issues can be solved with better play calling and better pass rushing from the d-line.

Give Joe time, and he could make a ham sandwich look like a solid WR.

On offense, the most glaring need is a RB.

Chase is a great change of pace, but ground control and 4th quarter time kill is what we need. Elway didn't win a SB till Davis came along. Brady won with Dillon, Antowain Smith and Blount. Manning had James, Addai and even Faulk for one year.

We are losing games in 4th quarter and Burrow has thrown 5 of his 6 INTs in the 4th.

On defense, the most glaring need is interior pass rush. When we had Hill and Larry O, anchored around Reader - all was well.

If there is a give and take here, I would prefer an interior DT over a WR. Enough of converting a DE to a rush DT, ala Carter.

(12-13-2024, 06:21 PM)XsandOs Wrote: On offense, the most glaring need is a RB.

stopped readong right there

(12-13-2024, 06:21 PM)XsandOs Wrote: On offense, the most glaring need is a RB.

Chase is a great change of pace, but ground control and 4th quarter time kill is what we need. Elway didn't win a SB till Davis came along. Brady won with Dillon, Antowain Smith and Blount. Manning had James, Addai and even Faulk for one year.

We are losing games in 4th quarter and Burrow has thrown 5 of his 6 INTs in the 4th.

On defense, the most glaring need is interior pass rush. When we had Hill and Larry O, anchored around Reader - all was well.

If there is a give and take here, I would prefer an interior DT over a WR. Enough of converting a DE to a rush DT, ala Carter.

IOL, TE, then RB. The reason the Bengals are spreading it out and throwing it on 3rd and short is because they don't trust their blocking and can't create 7 man surfaces.

(12-13-2024, 06:21 PM)XsandOs Wrote: On offense, the most glaring need is a RB.

Chase is a great change of pace, but ground control and 4th quarter time kill is what we need. Elway didn't win a SB till Davis came along. Brady won with Dillon, Antowain Smith and Blount. Manning had James, Addai and even Faulk for one year.

We are losing games in 4th quarter and Burrow has thrown 5 of his 6 INTs in the 4th.

On defense, the most glaring need is interior pass rush. When we had Hill and Larry O, anchored around Reader - all was well.

If there is a give and take here, I would prefer an interior DT over a WR. Enough of converting a DE to a rush DT, ala Carter.

Belichick also had a strong interior OL.  We do not have that.   I want that both to run the ball and protect Burrow.  If we can't do the latter there is no point in winning games.  Eventually he's going to suffer a career ending injury.

But I think IDL comes right after that.  Then CB.  Then WR.   Better sign who we have...

Using Chat GPT because i'm lazy.

But Bengals could give Jamar Chase his extension, extend Teddy Bear (Trey Hendrickson), keep their rollover, and still have 30 million to mesh with. A creative Tee Higgins contract and we'd have some mula to revamp the D.

This is assuming they cut Stone and Rankins.

(12-12-2024, 02:56 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Let's stick with that line of reason, as we don't care if Tee has regrets about getting rid of his agent. He's made more this year than I'll likely have made in my lifetime. I just want to see a winner. But you're right, I've said since the beginning that the money needed to secure Higgins to a multi year deal is desperately needed in other areas of the team.

They should tag and trade Tee and use the picks to rebuild the DL and some OL and draft a WR like McMillan in the draft (maybe even Jayden Higgins).

(12-13-2024, 06:35 PM)pulses Wrote: They should tag and trade Tee and use the picks to rebuild the DL and some OL and draft a WR like McMillan in the draft (maybe even Jayden Higgins).

If they do the tag and trade, let it be for a player at another position that we sorely need improvement at, like G or NT.

(12-13-2024, 04:45 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Correct.

The best thing to give Joe Burrow is time to throw, not an often injured WR. David Boston was amazing while healthy, but was never great for that same reason.

I would love to see the Bengals invest the $25M, earmarked for Tee, to pick up two dominant guards in free agency. If not, sell out on defense and pick up an elite d-lineman to help out Trey. I think a lot of the secondary issues can be solved with better play calling and better pass rushing from the d-line.

Give Joe time, and he could make a ham sandwich look like a solid WR.

I definitely agree, just doesn't seem the way they are going to go about it with Tee firing his old agent and adding Ja'Marr's agent.

Maybe we can still pull it off and fix the D and the Interior, we will see as THAT is what needs to get fixed more than anything else.

Tee's injury history HAS to be taken into account with whatever extension he gets.

(12-13-2024, 04:45 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Correct.

The best thing to give Joe Burrow is time to throw, not an often injured WR. David Boston was amazing while healthy, but was never great for that same reason.

I would love to see the Bengals invest the $25M, earmarked for Tee, to pick up two dominant guards in free agency. If not, sell out on defense and pick up an elite d-lineman to help out Trey. I think a lot of the secondary issues can be solved with better play calling and better pass rushing from the d-line.

Give Joe time, and he could make a ham sandwich look like a solid WR.

$25M isn't getting anyone two elite Guards in this day and age. You could get one elite Guard and put the change toward re-signing Hill at DT. The DT market for FA is looking like slim pickings this year.

I will pick a fight over that underrated 2021 draft… after Chase. Many of those players played key roles and made key plays in two postseason runs.

Doesn’t that mean something? Plenty “great drafts” brought us no post season success.

Now add Chase to that and 2021 shouldn’t count towards the draft failures of recent years.The issues happened after that. 

And while I’m at it it’s time to put some respeck on Samples name. I think he’s earned his 2nd round selection. He’s not just sticking around because he’s a former 2nd round pick. He a legit piece. A key piece.

The 2021 draft was abysmal. Especially with having 10 picks.

Ja’Marr Chase
Jackson Carman
Joseph Ossai
Cam Sample
Tyler Shelvin
D’Ante Smith
Evan McPherson
Trey Hill
Chris Evans
Wyatt Huber

They never should have traded back in the 2nd round. Had they got Cosmi or Humphrey to add to with Chase it would have been a game changer. But they wanted to **** around and collect their precious draft picks. And ofc it backfired.