(12-14-2024, 11:22 AM)samhain Wrote: I get it, but that's easier said than done.  Their return on investment for spending in the trenches has been piss poor lately.  They invested a number 1 pick in Murphy and only recently felt the need to give him a meaning full number of snaps.  2 years in and we still have no idea what he is.  Rankins wasn't exactly cheap, either, and he looks completely done.  I have hope for Jenkins and maybe Jackson, but both have a lot to prove yet.

You can say similar things about the DBs.  That situation is probably even worse.  They've invested a 1st and 2 2nd rounders in the secondary.  At worst, all 3 of those guys should be solid starters if they lived up to expectations.  That's far from the case.  They failed to find a position for Hill for 3 years.  Taylor Britt is brain broke.  Turner is decent but not playing.  These guys were supposed to be the future of the defense.  Throw in FA investments like Scott and Stone and you have nothing but misses over the last few years.  

Tee is a known.  There's no doubt that he's a major asset when out there.  Could they get by with Ja'marr and some dudes?  Probably, but you have to think that they team is going to view his absence as a hole to be filled in the draft or FA.  That's less capital for more defensive upgrades.  Sign Tee and you can go nuts on defense in the draft and with remaining FA money.  

You spend that money on Tee and you know what you're getting.  Spend money on something else and there's significant risk of getting magic beans in return.  I'm okay with spending on knowns. They're in the position we see them in now for letting go of known veterans.  

The defense IMO is a cultural problem.  They need a new leader on the field and at coordinator.  Shitty tackling is absolutely a culture issue.  Bad communication on the back end is as well.  I they aren't willing to gut those areas, then we're in for more of the same.  You need new personel, but personnel investments will fall flat if the underlying issues aren't addressed.  Stone and Rankins should tell us that.  They were not chopped liver FAs.  Not until they became Bengals, anyway.  

you spend money on tee Higgins you are getting a receiver that has chronic hamstring problems..misses one third of the games 

We need a 2-3 receiver that can catch 8-10-15 yard passes..Thats the issue ..spending 90 plus million bucks on a quarterback and two receivers ...well if they do that just expect more of the same..Furthermore..Higgins has a chronic hamstring problems..And as stats clearly show this team does quite well offensively without Higgins....If Tee Higgins is back next year we are in a boatload of trouble.,..We have too many needs in other areas..We need more scouts and much better player evaluation...we need help in the interior offensive and fensive lines...I don't know what's going on in the defensive backfield,,We need to address the receiver 2-3 positions and we don't need to spend 25 million to keep an often injured Higgins...etc...

(12-13-2024, 06:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post Ell Prez. Makes a lot of sense, I like it.

Nate ....Higgins , Burrow and Chase are not going to make some extraordinary deal to save the team a significant amount of money.. That being said....again..I would not even consider signing Higgins, for the simple fact he has chronic injury issues...Statistically..the Bengals offense does fine when he's not playing..We simply have to get out of the mindset that this team is unbeatable with Burrow, Chase Higgins..And if we don't..expect more of the same

(12-14-2024, 01:12 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: you spend money on tee Higgins you are getting a receiver that has chronic hamstring problems..misses one third of the games 

Tee Higgins missed 5 games total because of injury in his first THREE seasons. He has missed games the last two years but his injury history is slightly overblown. You can tell because people are resorting to using snap percentages for him when Zac Taylor rotates his receivers. Both of his last two years have been contract years where players are less likely to play through minor things like hamstrings. 

(12-14-2024, 01:56 PM)Synric Wrote: Tee Higgins missed 4 games total because of injury in his first THREE seasons. He has missed games the last two years but his injury history is slightly overblown. You can tell because people are resorting to using snap percentages for him when Zac Taylor rotates his receivers. Both of his last two years have been contract years where players are less likely to play through minor things like hamstrings. 

Tee Higgins is injury prone. There’s no overreacting

(12-14-2024, 02:00 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Tee Higgins is injury prone. There’s no overreacting

JaMarr Chase has missed the same amount of games in his first three years because of injury as Tee Higgins did in his first three years. 

(12-14-2024, 02:04 PM)Synric Wrote: JaMarr Chase has missed the same amount of games in his first three years because of injury as Tee Higgins did in his first three years. 

Jamarr’s missed games came in one season. Higgins misses games every single year, and his last 2 have been brutal. Let him walk

(12-14-2024, 02:12 PM)Synric Wrote: 5 games total his first 3 years and yes he has missed more in Two contract years with minor injuries he probabaly could have played through if he had been paid. AJ Green did something similar in 2018 or 2019 in his final contract year in Cincy. 

You’re not even thinking about the games where Tee leaves early because he got an ouchy. Just pencil in Tee for missing 4 games and leaving another 2-3 games early

(12-14-2024, 02:15 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You’re not even thinking about the games where Tee leaves early because he got an ouchy. Just pencil in Tee for missing 4 games and leaving another 2-3 games early

I did that was week 17 2020 when he left two snaps into the game. That's one of the 5. 


Missing a couple games is football. Alot of players miss a game or two every season.

(12-14-2024, 02:04 PM)Synric Wrote: JaMarr Chase has missed the same amount of games in his first three years because of injury as Tee Higgins did in his first three years. 

Stop this.

Ja'Marr Chase snaps played
2021: 85.44%
2022: 71.64%
2023: 81.80%
*2024: 91.51%

Tee Higgins
2020: 74.81%
2021: 64.60%
2022: 68.38%
2023: 52.67%
*2024: 50.00%

Higgins has had a hamstring injury every year for the last SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. He leaves games early a lot, he plays lesser workloads due to nursing injury a lot. He's also had in the NFL two ankle injuries, a rib injury, a shoulder injury, a quad injury, and a concussion.

He's quite talented, but he is always going to get hurt and miss some games and also get hurt again and miss partial games or drives or just need a lessened workload. People don't generally get more durable as they get older and have more injuries stacked up in their history (as evidenced by Tee getting two injuries in practice this year). So it's probably only going to get worse not better.

(12-14-2024, 02:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Stop this.

Ja'Marr Chase snaps played
2021: 85.44%
2022: 71.64%
2023: 81.80%
*2024: 91.51%

Tee Higgins
2020: 74.81%
2021: 64.60%
2022: 68.38%
2023: 52.67%
*2024: 50.00%

Higgins has had a hamstring injury every year for the last SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. He leaves games early a lot, he plays lesser workloads due to nursing injury a lot. He's also had in the NFL two ankle injuries, a rib injury, a shoulder injury, a quad injury, and a concussion.

Snaps. Again Zac rotates his WRs he liked to bring in blocking receivers when he had them. Stanley Morgan Jr, Auden Tate,  Michael Thomas, and Trenton Irwin.

(12-14-2024, 02:29 PM)Synric Wrote: Snaps. Again Zac rotates his WRs he liked to bring in blocking receivers when he had them. Stanley Morgan Jr, Auden Tate,  Michael Thomas, and Trenton Irwin.

Quote:Higgins has had a hamstring injury every year for the last SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. He leaves games early a lot, he plays lesser workloads due to nursing injury a lot. He's also had in the NFL two ankle injuries, a rib injury, a shoulder injury, a quad injury, and a concussion.

You cannot use snaps because of the WR rotation just like you couldn't use snaps for DJ Reader because of the DT rotation.

(12-14-2024, 02:36 PM)Synric Wrote: You cannot use snaps because of the WR rotation just like you couldn't use snaps for DJ Reader because of the DT rotation.

Fine, lets just go with your logic that Tee is in the same category at a NT.

For the third time... Higgins has had a hamstring injury every year for the last SIX STRAIGHT YEARS. He leaves games early a lot, he plays lesser workloads due to nursing injury a lot. He's also had in the NFL two ankle injuries, a rib injury, a shoulder injury, a quad injury, and a concussion.

(12-14-2024, 09:54 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: Great post. I’ve wanted to trade tee for assets (draft and cap). And I haven’t done the research but this is the main reason I would want to keep Tee. Are there any FA defensive players out there worth a $25M-30M year deal? If not, then my opinion shifts a little, a little closer to 50/50 on what to do. Idk I need to look at 2025 FA lists. And we also have to realize those players could still be retained by their team.

In my opinion, there are no defensive free agents that I would be willing to throw 25M to 30M at (I assume you meant per year, not total value of the contract).

There are some defensive free agents that I'd be interested in signing. I like Milton Williams of the Eagles and Osa Odighizuwa of the Cowboys who I think could provide a really good pass rush from the inside, but I don't think either are considered top 25 free agents. And they're both kind of 2 down players, cuz they aren't great against the run.


DE though is kind of a wasteland haha. Almost every free agent in the DE class this year has some kind of glaring red flag. Haason Reddick had the whole controversy where he sat out for over half the season, Khalil Mack, DeMarcus Lawrence and Matthew Judon are old and the Bengals don't typically go for those types of free agents, Chase Young has been one of the most disappointing players in recent memory relative to his ceiling, Josh Uche fell off the face of the earth after a fantastic 2022 season and Azeez Ojulari was benched by the Giants for a while before having a minor resurgence (mostly against us) before the trade deadline (he has now fallen back into mediocre status and got injured shortly thereafter). 


As an aside, now that I think about it Azeez Ojulari is exactly the kind of free agent the Bengals would sign. Has their best game against us, so we sign him, who would then go on to be a below average player for us (see: Sheldon Rankins, Geno Stone)


Among the defensive edge players, Josh Sweat is probably the best of the bunch. My only major concern with him is that the Eagles' defensive line is so good, how much did he benefit from being on an island because of their defensive line depth? I'd have a similar question about Milton Williams, honestly. 


I guess the bottom line is, it is very rare that a prime #1 player at their position hits free agency. Most of the time, the team locks those players up, so there's a degree of risk with every free agent currently out there.


In that same vein, why would we be one of the teams that lets a prime #1 player like Tee Higgins go?

(12-13-2024, 05:52 PM)J24 Wrote: Who the F actally likes Green Bean casserole? That's an awful conmmparison.  Tee is more like great stuffing. If you have regular box stuffing then it's just ok but if you do it right then it's an essential part of the feast.

Tee is miles from essential.  If nobody makes green bean casserole, some may be a little disappointed.  If nobody makes stuffing, everyone is like WTF.

Dude is hurt too much to be essential.

(12-14-2024, 01:10 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: you should be concerned about what Higgins makes..you simply cannot pay a quarterback and two receivers one third of  NFL allowed salaries for the team..Tee Higgins makes some brilliant catches..but as it stands now he has a chronic injury..he misses many games and on many occasions drops easy passes..This keeping Tee Higgins talk is nonsense

Why, I just want to watch my team destroy other teams on their way to a title.  FWIW, I have been leading the call for Higgins to be moved on from since last year. He's got a chronic hamstring issue that is likely never going completely away. I just think that it's foolhardy for fans to worry about what athletes get paid. If they're good, they're going to get paid by your team, or definitely another team. When I see a fellow fan using arguments like "Burrow is doing Higgins a disservice" as the basis for their argument to move on, that's when I call BS. 

While I truly believe that it will be painful for Burrow and Co. to move forward without Higgins, it is the right move for the good of the club.

(12-14-2024, 02:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: Tee is miles from essential.  If nobody makes green bean casserole, some may be a little disappointed.  If nobody makes stuffing, everyone is like WTF.

Dude is hurt too much to be essential.

Burrow does not agree with your take!

“Prone to injury” seems to land softer than “injury prone” around here I’ve learned …

Same agent saying, "You pay both what I say you pay them, our you lose both of them."
Lights a cigar provided by Joe Burrow.