(01-20-2025, 03:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Yoshi is literally the worst graded qualifying player at his position per PFF.  Like, there are qualifying G's that grade worse than Cappa and Volson.  In fact, Volson grades better outright.  

Beyond that, he has the third worst Catch % on the team, only better than Irwin and Burton to go with 5 drops on 61 targets.  He doesn't block well and is a non factor between the 20's.  

He is an extremely hard sell when you're claiming he's just outside the ten best players on the roster.  And if he is, why bother resigning Tee?

Hilton, beyond his individual contribution, is one of the defensive leaders of the club and is a big part of helping the young CB's.  

If you're gonna use grades across the board, fine. If you're going to bring catch% in for WRs, you need to bring pressures in for Gs. Cappa and Volson were #1 and #4 in most pressure surrendered of all Gs with a 50% snap share. 

In no way ever is Geno Stone better than Vonn Bell, and especially not Zack Moss

Edit: and yes, Yoshi is the most overrated player ever on this board. He is not a legit #3

(01-22-2025, 12:58 AM)Gohards Wrote: In no way ever is Geno Stone better than Vonn Bell, and especially not Zack Moss

Edit: and yes, Yoshi is the most overrated player ever on this board. He is not a legit #3

… he is the replacement for Tee though….

(01-21-2025, 10:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you're gonna use grades across the board, fine. If you're going to bring catch% in for WRs, you need to bring pressures in for Gs. Cappa and Volson were #1 and #4 in most pressure surrendered of all Gs with a 50% snap share. 

The point isn't that Cappa and Volson are good.  The point is that Yoshi, Cappa, and Volson all grade out pretty miserably compared to their peers in a number of metrics, but somehow one is being listed as one of the best players on the roster and the other two are listed down below guys that hardly see the field.  

(01-22-2025, 12:58 AM)Gohards Wrote: In no way ever is Geno Stone better than Vonn Bell, and especially not Zack Moss

Edit: and yes, Yoshi is the most overrated player ever on this board. He is not a legit #3

Geno has a chance to be on this team next year.

Bell does not. He was pretty clearly washed this season.

Moss also has a very small chance of being on this roster in 2024.

I have a hard time ranking back up players that will almost certainly not be on this team above a player who the Bengals have a decent shot at keeping for 2025. Stone actually had a decent end to the year. Good enough that I think the next DC may give him a chance (with competition) to start next season.

I agree with your edit, which was my entire point in making this list (the talent drop off after the top ~10 is insane), but Whatever kind of threw the entire thread into disarray by implying my ranking of Yoshi indicates I love him like a brother.

Khalil Mack just said he's playing in 2025... cheap 1 year deal as they work in younger guys wouldn't be the worst idea for Cincy. Calais Campbell type signing. 

(01-22-2025, 12:21 PM)Synric Wrote: Khalil Mack just said he's playing in 2025... cheap 1 year deal as they work in younger guys wouldn't be the worst idea for Cincy. Calais Campbell type signing. 

I'd love to get Mack on a one year deal to a you say kinda be a bridge player for this defense. His best years are most likely behind him. But I'd bet he probably has at a minimum a good bit of situational snaps left.

(01-22-2025, 11:15 AM)CJD Wrote: Geno has a chance to be on this team next year.

Bell does not. He was pretty clearly washed this season.

Moss also has a very small chance of being on this roster in 2024.

I have a hard time ranking back up players that will almost certainly not be on this team above a player who the Bengals have a decent shot at keeping for 2025. Stone actually had a decent end to the year. Good enough that I think the next DC may give him a chance (with competition) to start next season.

I agree with your edit, which was my entire point in making this list (the talent drop off after the top ~10 is insane), but Whatever kind of threw the entire thread into disarray by implying my ranking of Yoshi indicates I love him like a brother.

What does the odds of a guy being on the team next year have to do with how good/bad they played, their impact/importance, or their talent level?

You're getting overly focused on one issue that's been pointed out when this list overall is pretty poor.

Not good for defense when only 2 of them make it into the Top 10 list of players.

Hoping FA gets at least one new defensive player in that list.

(01-22-2025, 12:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: What does the odds of a guy being on the team next year have to do with how good/bad they played, their impact/importance, or their talent level?

You're getting overly focused on one issue that's been pointed out when this list overall is pretty poor.

What do odds of a guy being on the team next year have to do with their impact/importance on the team moving forward?

A fair bit, I think.

(01-22-2025, 01:46 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: … he is the replacement for Tee though….

He has every tool except ability.

(01-22-2025, 10:42 AM)Whatever Wrote: The point isn't that Cappa and Volson are good.  The point is that Yoshi, Cappa, and Volson all grade out pretty miserably compared to their peers in a number of metrics, but somehow one is being listed as one of the best players on the roster and the other two are listed down below guys that hardly see the field.  

Yeah. Yoshi shouldn't be considered anything more than a 4th option right now. 

Great thread, CJD. You put a lot of thought into it and caused us to do the same. My reactions:

Our top players are good and the rest of the roster is not. Extend the big 3, cut the deadwood, and spend what's left on guys who can actually play. Hopefully our new coaches can identify who that might be.

It's criminal that the worst 3 players on the team are interior line starters -- DT and both guards. Winning starts at the LOS.

Burton is over-rated.

I think a better method would be to list players under various Tiers.

Tier 1:
Burrow
Chase
Higgins
Trey
Orlando Brown
Mims

Tier 2:
Jenkins
Gisecki
Murphy
Chase Brown
Logan Wilson
Hilton

Tier 3, Tier 4 and so on.

(01-22-2025, 01:23 PM)CJD Wrote: What do odds of a guy being on the team next year have to do with their impact/importance on the team moving forward?

A fair bit, I think.

"One outta three ain't bad...", wait, that's not the lyric.

(01-22-2025, 11:15 AM)CJD Wrote: Geno has a chance to be on this team next year.

Bell does not. He was pretty clearly washed this season.

Moss also has a very small chance of being on this roster in 2024.

I have a hard time ranking back up players that will almost certainly not be on this team above a player who the Bengals have a decent shot at keeping for 2025. Stone actually had a decent end to the year. Good enough that I think the next DC may give him a chance (with competition) to start next season.

I agree with your edit, which was my entire point in making this list (the talent drop off after the top ~10 is insane), but Whatever kind of threw the entire thread into disarray by implying my ranking of Yoshi indicates I love him like a brother.

I look at it like this

This team will be in far better shape if we cut Stone, Moss is a toss up. You always need depth at RB.

Drew sample at 27th is laughable. He was one of the worst graded TE in NFL football, and one of the worst on the Bengals overall.

He will bet cut and his 6m over the next 2 years applied to players who do not provide negative value on the field

(01-22-2025, 04:57 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I think a better method would be to list players under various Tiers.

Tier 1:
Burrow
Chase
Higgins
Trey
Orlando Brown
Mims

Tier 2:
Jenkins
Gisecki
Murphy
Chase Brown
Logan Wilson
Hilton

Tier 3, Tier 4 and so on.

Murphy in the same tier as guys like Chase Brown and Mike Hilton is wild.

(01-22-2025, 09:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Murphy in the same tier as guys like Chase Brown and Mike Hilton is wild.

The run Defense began to "Not Suck" after the two rookie DTs were playing next to each other. I'd put them and Cochran a little higher. Cochran didn't play much but he didn't stink up the joint as he ass an emergency fill-in.

And I agree about Murphy being a bit too high on the list, other than that, great ranking