It is no secret two of our biggest weaknesses were our OL and DL. All linemen need power (strength) and burst to be successful. i did not see a burst from our OL getting off the ball on run plays and saw our OL get bull rushed at times. Our DL had no one who commanded double teams other than Trey. DT's did not need to be double teamed a lot (Hill at times) because other team's OL handled them allowing those teams to use OL to attack our second level.

I know we have some experts or more versed posters like Sunset, I am no expert. i know our OL and DL coach were fired. To me, they were fired for technique and scheme issues.

My question is why did the 3 strength coaches who have a state-of-the-art workout room get a pass? Should they share some accountability?

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/

Joey Boese
Diamond Simmons
Garrett Swanson

I know it is also on the players. It is good to see Orlando Brown stay in Cincinnati as his fractures in his leg heal and work on strength and conditioning.

(Yesterday, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is no secret two of our biggest weaknesses were our OL and DL. All linemen need power (strength) and burst to be successful. i did not see a burst from our OL getting off the ball on run plays and saw our OL get bull rushed at times. Our DL had no one who commanded double teams other than Trey. DT's did not need to be double teamed a lot (Hill at times) because other team's OL handled them allowing those teams to use OL to attack our second level.

I know we have some experts or more versed posters like Sunset, I am no expert. i know our OL and DL coach were fired. To me, they were fired for technique and scheme issues.

My question is why did the 3 strength coaches who have a state-of-the-art workout room get a pass? Should they share some accountability?

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/

Joey Boese
Diamond Simmons
Garrett Swanson

I know it is also on the players. It is good to see Orlando Brown stay in Cincinnati as his fractures in his leg heal and work on strength and conditioning.

Don’t waste your time with these thoughts. No idea how good or bad the S&C guys are but by far and away Zac’s strongest relationship outside his own family is Joey Boese.

(Yesterday, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is no secret two of our biggest weaknesses were our OL and DL. All linemen need power (strength) and burst to be successful. i did not see a burst from our OL getting off the ball on run plays and saw our OL get bull rushed at times. Our DL had no one who commanded double teams other than Trey. DT's did not need to be double teamed a lot (Hill at times) because other team's OL handled them allowing those teams to use OL to attack our second level.

I know we have some experts or more versed posters like Sunset, I am no expert. i know our OL and DL coach were fired. To me, they were fired for technique and scheme issues.

My question is why did the 3 strength coaches who have a state-of-the-art workout room get a pass? Should they share some accountability?

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/

Joey Boese
Diamond Simmons
Garrett Swanson

I know it is also on the players. It is good to see Orlando Brown stay in Cincinnati as his fractures in his leg heal and work on strength and conditioning.

Is it a lack of strength or technique?

(Yesterday, 08:52 PM)pally Wrote: Is it a lack of strength or technique?

Correct.

The Bengals have one of the least athletic o-lines in the NFL, and a terrible o-line coach, until recently.

I would highlight the S&T coaches if the Bengals had rashes of injuries, and players out of condition that could not be explained, like Burton acting like a POS, of ig there were multiple poorly diagnosed injuries, like the Jeremy Irons sports hernia.

The Bengals have a coaching issue they need to fix.

If it does not take, maybe look at the S&T folk.  

I doubt it gets that far.

(Yesterday, 08:52 PM)pally Wrote: Is it a lack of strength or technique?

My question is it both? But only OL and DL coaches held accountable?

My understanding is that S&C coaches are more focused on balancing the athletes bodies out in order to prevent soft tissue injury and less about increasing raw strength. These guys come out of college about as strong as they ever will be. Especially if they come from big schools. They will still get stronger in the NFL, but it’s more about injury prevention. That’s how it was described to me by a coach, at least.

I agree with the member formerly known as BengalRugby on this one. It's not a strength and conditioning issue, it's a lack of awareness and execution issue. Something that the previous OL coach should have already ironed out. However, it could even be greater than that. NFL coaches are limited on the amount of time that they are allowed to spend with players, per the CBA, so that is a consideration as well.

If you wonder why I say that it's not a strength and condition issue, I'll use Cordell Volson as an example, since I was one of his strongest backers. When Volson knows the play and simply has to execute, he typically does well and in some cases bowls his man over. When it's the unsuspecting, like a stunt, he's caught off guard and lunges out of position and gets beat on a lot of those plays. Coaching should have caught that, and taught him little cues to recognize what was about to happen, so that he could have been composed and ready to react appropriately. For whatever reason, that hasn't happened. Weather it be a direct fail of Pollack, the OC, or even Zac who has oversight of the entire team. Let's just hope that Scott Peters has enough of that Assistant OL coach vibe left in him to actually fix some things that our OL are getting wrong at the Pro level of the game.

(Yesterday, 08:52 PM)pally Wrote: Is it a lack of strength or technique?

There's a lack of athleticism... Who's responsible for that?

You may be onto something. I really didn't know who they had, looks like 3 guys...I just assumed if Kim Wood was still alive that's who they had. If they add anyone I bet it's a Patriots strength coach.

(Yesterday, 10:02 PM)jason Wrote: There's a lack of athleticism... Who's responsible for that?

Probably athletic support. Hopefully we still have them around and didn't cut back that much. 

(Yesterday, 10:02 PM)jason Wrote: There's a lack of athleticism... Who's responsible for that?

I mean, everyone has their athletic ceiling. 

You can get more athletic, but it's only marginal. 

(Yesterday, 07:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is no secret two of our biggest weaknesses were our OL and DL. All linemen need power (strength) and burst to be successful. i did not see a burst from our OL getting off the ball on run plays and saw our OL get bull rushed at times. Our DL had no one who commanded double teams other than Trey. DT's did not need to be double teamed a lot (Hill at times) because other team's OL handled them allowing those teams to use OL to attack our second level.

I know we have some experts or more versed posters like Sunset, I am no expert. i know our OL and DL coach were fired. To me, they were fired for technique and scheme issues.

My question is why did the 3 strength coaches who have a state-of-the-art workout room get a pass? Should they share some accountability?

https://www.bengals.com/team/coaches-roster/

Joey Boese
Diamond Simmons
Garrett Swanson

I know it is also on the players. It is good to see Orlando Brown stay in Cincinnati as his fractures in his leg heal and work on strength and conditioning.

I've been complaining for years that Bengals players don't look to be as physically strong as a lot of the opponents they play, with the exception of a play here or a play there...

As long as Zac is here, then Joey Boese will be here.

(Yesterday, 10:02 PM)jason Wrote: There's a lack of athleticism... Who's responsible for that?

strength and conditioning can't fix a lack of athleticism

(Yesterday, 10:02 PM)jason Wrote: There's a lack of athleticism... Who's responsible for that?

The Front Office for bringing in a bunch of OL with terrible RAS. 

Having played football, I can tell you the coaches have their own very strong opinions about strength training. It is very likely that the coaches advocate for the type of strength training the players do during the year and leave it to the player and trainers to execute. Players can go their own way of course. But the trainers aren't a separate entity doing things their own way. They're tools of the coaches and players.

Thanks for all of the great responses. It came to mind for me watching my UC basketball team. The Miller version lacks strength and routinely get pushed around. UC basketball teams in the past were much stronger. Different coaches with different emphasis it appears.

I believe as one of the posters stated, the coach decides the type of weight training they want, and the coaches and trainers execute it.
If that is the case, it is on Zac and the coaches unless they are not executing Zac's plan. I also agree most athletes make the huge jump in college adding 20 to 30 lbs. of muscle. But I don't agree these athletes are doing building body mass before they enter the NFL. I think there is a reason there are not more plug and play DL and OL drafted players.

I think these big men are still developing physically and strength can be enhanced. I don't know the answer, but when did Hurts develop the ability to do 700+ pound leg presses for example. Did he enhance his leg strength as a pro or do it all in college.

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think these big men are still developing physically and strength can be enhanced. I don't know the answer, but when did Hurts develop the ability to do 700+ pound leg presses for example. Did he enhance his leg strength as a pro or do it all in college.

It was squat, not leg press. The difference is important because a 700 pound squat is significantly harder than a 700 pound leg press.

To answer your question, Hurts mostly developed the ability in high school. As a senior Hurts squatted 570 pounds at a powerlifting meet. He then squatted 600 pounds in college. Here is an article with a video of him squatting 500 pounds in high school that mentions he maxed at 570. 

This is kind of what I mean when I say that these guys are about as strong as they will ever be by the time they hit the pros. 

(7 hours ago)KillerGoose Wrote: It was squat, not leg press. The difference is important because a 700 pound squat is significantly harder than a 700 pound leg press.

To answer your question, Hurts mostly developed the ability in high school. As a senior Hurts squatted 570 pounds at a powerlifting meet. He then squatted 600 pounds in college. Here is an article with a video of him squatting 500 pounds in high school that mentions he maxed at 570. 

This is kind of what I mean when I say that these guys are about as strong as they will ever be by the time they hit the pros. 

The ability to squat over 3X ones own bodyweight is an elite level of strength. To put that in perspective, if he were doing that in a sanctioned powerlifting meet he would hold the raw record for the 242# class. I mean that is freakishly strong, great genetics.