I saw in PFF's latest mock that they had Walter Nolen pegged for the Bengals, and they were mentioning some of their metrics for him.

I thought people might be interested in seeing their grades for Nolen vs the other DT many have mocked to Bengals - Kenneth Grant.

Nolen:
Age - 21 (turns 22 in Oct)
Size - 6'3", 305 lbs
Overall Grade - 88.9
Pass Rush Grade - 75.0
True Pass Set PR Grade - 80.8
Pass Rush Win Rate - 10.9%
Run Defense Grade - 91.6 (2nd in FBS among IDL behind Mason Graham)
Run Stop Rate - 11.9%

Grant:
Age - 21 (2 weeks younger than Nolen, turns 22 in Oct as well)
Size - 6'3", 339 lbs
Overall Grade - 83.7
Pass Rush Grade - 75.3
True Pass Set PR Grade - 77.4
Pass Rush Win Rate - 9.4%
Run Defense Grade - 87.5
Run Stop Rate - 7.9%

Both are good prospects, but some might be sleeping on Nolen's run defense, not realizing how great it actually was in 2024.
On the flip side, some might be sleeping on Grant's pass rush (like myself) given his lack of sacks in 2024.

Where do you lean - Nolen or Grant if it had to be one of them, and why?

(02-18-2025, 12:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I saw in PFF's latest mock that they had Walter Nolen pegged for the Bengals, and they were mentioning some of their metrics for him.

I thought people might be interested in seeing their grades for Nolen vs the other DT many have mocked to Bengals - Kenneth Grant.

Nolen:
Age - 21 (turns 22 in Oct)
Size - 6'3", 305 lbs
Overall Grade - 88.9
Pass Rush Grade - 75.0
True Pass Set PR Grade - 80.8
Pass Rush Win Rate - 10.9%
Run Defense Grade - 91.6 (2nd in FBS among IDL behind Mason Graham)
Run Stop Rate - 11.9%

Grant:
Age - 21 (2 weeks younger than Nolen, turns 22 in Oct as well)
Size - 6'3", 339 lbs
Overall Grade - 83.7
Pass Rush Grade - 75.3
True Pass Set PR Grade - 77.4
Pass Rush Win Rate - 9.4%
Run Defense Grade - 87.5
Run Stop Rate - 7.9%

Both are good prospects, but some might be sleeping on Nolen's run defense, not realizing how great it actually was in 2024.
On the flip side, some might be sleeping on Grant's pass rush (like myself) given his lack of sacks in 2024.

Where do you lean - Nolen or Grant if it had to be one of them, and why?

First, I don't think anyone is sleeping on Noland. He had a great week of practice at the Senior Bowl and was already considered a top dline prospect. Nothing has changed since then.

Both are immediate plug and plays, so probably not the answer that you are looking for, but either would be great! TW from OSU should also be considered for the dline. 

TY for in depth scouting report. Shocked Nolan better against run.

I thought Graham (Grant)was the run stopper and Nolan better pass rusher.

Also both are very young, it is good as they have room to grow, but concern if they are NFL ready. Most college DL prospects need a year or 2 to add strength to dominate in the NFL as they did in college.

Listed wrong guy originally.

(02-18-2025, 12:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I saw in PFF's latest mock that they had Walter Nolen pegged for the Bengals, and they were mentioning some of their metrics for him.

I thought people might be interested in seeing their grades for Nolen vs the other DT many have mocked to Bengals - Kenneth Grant.

Nolen:
Age - 21 (turns 22 in Oct)
Size - 6'3", 305 lbs
Overall Grade - 88.9
Pass Rush Grade - 75.0
True Pass Set PR Grade - 80.8
Pass Rush Win Rate - 10.9%
Run Defense Grade - 91.6 (2nd in FBS among IDL behind Mason Graham)
Run Stop Rate - 11.9%

Grant:
Age - 21 (2 weeks younger than Nolen, turns 22 in Oct as well)
Size - 6'3", 339 lbs
Overall Grade - 83.7
Pass Rush Grade - 75.3
True Pass Set PR Grade - 77.4
Pass Rush Win Rate - 9.4%
Run Defense Grade - 87.5
Run Stop Rate - 7.9%

Both are good prospects, but some might be sleeping on Nolen's run defense, not realizing how great it actually was in 2024.
On the flip side, some might be sleeping on Grant's pass rush (like myself) given his lack of sacks in 2024.

Where do you lean - Nolen or Grant if it had to be one of them, and why?

I mean, we're talking a 3 tech(Nolen) vs a NT(Grant).

I go with Grant.  More upside, doesn't have the reported character concerns, and the pass rush potential as a NT is rare.  We need a Reader replacement, and he's it.  Plenty of good pass rushing 3 techs and edge rushers available later.

(02-18-2025, 01:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY for in depth scouting report. Shocked Nolan better against run.

I thought Graham was the run stopper and Nolan better pass rusher.

Also both are very young, it is good as they have room to grow, but concern if they are NFL ready. Most college DL prospects need a year or 2 to add strength to dominate in the NFL as they did in college.

I think you may be getting confused with Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant, who were next to each other on the Michigan DL?

Many are expecting Graham gone in the Top 10, as he's the best IDL prospect.

Next two most have been debating for weeks are Graham's IDL mate Grant, and Ole Miss's Walter Nolen.
Nolen looks more suited for replacing BJ Hill whereas Grant more the spot Reader had occupied that didn't get filled very well last year.

(02-18-2025, 02:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: I mean, we're talking a 3 tech(Nolen) vs a NT(Grant).

I go with Grant.  More upside, doesn't have the reported character concerns, and the pass rush potential as a NT is rare.  We need a Reader replacement, and he's it.  Plenty of good pass rushing 3 techs and edge rushers available later.

I see both Nolen and Grant as 3-down guys at their respective positions.

However, I think it's easier to have/find a 2-down 1T who rotates out with a pass rush specialist like Bengals used to do with Peko and Rucker/Fanene.

Either way, Bengals could use another 3T who can rush the passer and 1T who can rotate with Jackson.
In my eyes, Jenkins isn't much of a pass rusher and can/should be subbed on passing downs anyway.
Jackson I like more as a potential starting NT rather than Jenkins being a starting 3T.

I could see something like this:
Grant drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jackson at 1T
Someone like Riley Mills or Darius Alexander drafted around Rd 4 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T.

or

Nolen drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T
A 1T or versatile DT drafted in the mid-rounds (Jordan Phillips, Darius Alexander) who could rotate with McKinnley Jackson at 1T. Or a pure run-stuffing NT like Nazir Stackhouse taken Rd 5 or later to pair with Jackson to cover 1T.

(02-18-2025, 12:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I saw in PFF's latest mock that they had Walter Nolen pegged for the Bengals, and they were mentioning some of their metrics for him.

I thought people might be interested in seeing their grades for Nolen vs the other DT many have mocked to Bengals - Kenneth Grant.

Nolen:
Age - 21 (turns 22 in Oct)
Size - 6'3", 305 lbs
Overall Grade - 88.9
Pass Rush Grade - 75.0
True Pass Set PR Grade - 80.8
Pass Rush Win Rate - 10.9%
Run Defense Grade - 91.6 (2nd in FBS among IDL behind Mason Graham)
Run Stop Rate - 11.9%

Grant:
Age - 21 (2 weeks younger than Nolen, turns 22 in Oct as well)
Size - 6'3", 339 lbs
Overall Grade - 83.7
Pass Rush Grade - 75.3
True Pass Set PR Grade - 77.4
Pass Rush Win Rate - 9.4%
Run Defense Grade - 87.5
Run Stop Rate - 7.9%

Both are good prospects, but some might be sleeping on Nolen's run defense, not realizing how great it actually was in 2024.
On the flip side, some might be sleeping on Grant's pass rush (like myself) given his lack of sacks in 2024.

Where do you lean - Nolen or Grant if it had to be one of them, and why?

Thanks for this Ochocincos as these are probably my top 2 choices for a DT in this Draft besides Graham. Nolen is obviously a 3-tech and
Grant is more of a NT/1-tech so going off of our needs I lean toward Nolen as I have faith that McKinnley Jackson can be our NT for us in 
the future. Was really surprised by Grant's pass rush being that good and Nolen's run Defense being that good, mind boggling.

But yeah, I lean towards Walter Nolen, great 3-techs are harder to find than great NT's...

(02-18-2025, 02:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think you may be getting confused with Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant, who were next to each other on the Michigan DL?

Many are expecting Graham gone in the Top 10, as he's the best IDL prospect.

Next two most have been debating for weeks are Graham's IDL mate Grant, and Ole Miss's Walter Nolen.
Nolen looks more suited for replacing BJ Hill whereas Grant more the spot Reader had occupied that didn't get filled very well last year.

I meant Grant, thought he was the better run stopper and Nolan much better pass rusher. But appears Nolan is the better run stopper which surprised me.

(02-18-2025, 03:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I see both Nolen and Grant as 3-down guys at their respective positions.

However, I think it's easier to have/find a 2-down 1T who rotates out with a pass rush specialist like Bengals used to do with Peko and Rucker/Fanene.

Either way, Bengals could use another 3T who can rush the passer and 1T who can rotate with Jackson.
In my eyes, Jenkins isn't much of a pass rusher and can/should be subbed on passing downs anyway.
Jackson I like more as a potential starting NT rather than Jenkins being a starting 3T.

I could see something like this:
Grant drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jackson at 1T
Someone like Riley Mills or Darius Alexander drafted around Rd 4 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T.

or

Nolen drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T
A 1T or versatile DT drafted in the mid-rounds (Jordan Phillips, Darius Alexander) who could rotate with McKinnley Jackson at 1T. Or a pure run-stuffing NT like Nazir Stackhouse taken Rd 5 or later to pair with Jackson to cover 1T.

You are assuming we pass signing a FA DT like Williams or others. I think we sign one FA and then draft one DT.

(02-18-2025, 03:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this Ochocincos as these are probably my top 2 choices for a DT in this Draft besides Graham. Nolen is obviously a 3-tech and
Grant is more of a NT/1-tech so going off of our needs I lean toward Nolen as I have faith that McKinnley Jackson can be our NT for us in 
the future. Was really surprised by Grant's pass rush being that good and Nolen's run Defense being that good, mind boggling.

But yeah, I lean towards Walter Nolen, great 3-techs are harder to find than great NT's...

Most NTs I would agree, however if Grant really is along the lines of someone like Vita Vea or DaRon Payne, it would be worth it.

Either way, Bengals need interior pass rush and improvement against the run.
Both Nolen and Grant should offer both, albeit at somewhat different IDL positions.

(02-18-2025, 04:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Most NTs I would agree, however if Grant really is along the lines of someone like Vita Vea or DaRon Payne, it would be worth it.

Either way, Bengals need interior pass rush and improvement against the run.
Both Nolen and Grant should offer both, albeit at somewhat different IDL positions.

Completely agree, you just asked where I leaned and I told you lol

Would be happy with either Nolen or Grant for sure.

(02-18-2025, 03:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I see both Nolen and Grant as 3-down guys at their respective positions.

However, I think it's easier to have/find a 2-down 1T who rotates out with a pass rush specialist like Bengals used to do with Peko and Rucker/Fanene.

Either way, Bengals could use another 3T who can rush the passer and 1T who can rotate with Jackson.
In my eyes, Jenkins isn't much of a pass rusher and can/should be subbed on passing downs anyway.
Jackson I like more as a potential starting NT rather than Jenkins being a starting 3T.

I could see something like this:
Grant drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jackson at 1T
Someone like Riley Mills or Darius Alexander drafted around Rd 4 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T.

or

Nolen drafted in Rd 1 to rotate with Jenkins at 3T
A 1T or versatile DT drafted in the mid-rounds (Jordan Phillips, Darius Alexander) who could rotate with McKinnley Jackson at 1T. Or a pure run-stuffing NT like Nazir Stackhouse taken Rd 5 or later to pair with Jackson to cover 1T.

For me, it comes down to a few things....

First, it's a lot better draft class for 3 techs than for 1/0 techs.  I have a lot more confidence in getting a quality 3 tech that can at least rotate as a pass rusher later in the draft.

Second, unless the character concerns get alleviated, Nolen is pretty much off my board in Round 1.  Tremendous talent, no question, but to me, he isn't so head and shoulders above the other top 3 techs in this class that I'd be willing to gamble on him.  

Finally, Grant is a ridiculous freak.  Everyone drooled over Sweat last year, but Grant literally ran a sub 5 second 40 his freshman year at 360 pounds.  That is re-goddamn-diculous.  His ceiling is prime Suh/Haynesworth level.  DJ Reader may be his floor, barring injury.  He's just a guy that IMO will make the other 10 guys better.

I think Graham's run-stopping will translate better in the NFL. 290 ibs is plenty big enough to take on interior linemen who will be selling insurance because they are not big and strong enough, but it may not lend itself to an NFL run-stopper. Graham comes with 40 more pounds of sand and it's "quick sand"

(02-18-2025, 05:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: For me, it comes down to a few things....

First, it's a lot better draft class for 3 techs than for 1/0 techs.  I have a lot more confidence in getting a quality 3 tech that can at least rotate as a pass rusher later in the draft.

Second, unless the character concerns get alleviated, Nolen is pretty much off my board in Round 1.  Tremendous talent, no question, but to me, he isn't so head and shoulders above the other top 3 techs in this class that I'd be willing to gamble on him.  

Finally, Grant is a ridiculous freak.  Everyone drooled over Sweat last year, but Grant literally ran a sub 5 second 40 his freshman year at 360 pounds.  That is re-goddamn-diculous.  His ceiling is prime Suh/Haynesworth level.  DJ Reader may be his floor, barring injury.  He's just a guy that IMO will make the other 10 guys better.

Character concerns? I haven't heard of them? Can you link?

(02-18-2025, 12:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I saw in PFF's latest mock that they had Walter Nolen pegged for the Bengals, and they were mentioning some of their metrics for him.

I thought people might be interested in seeing their grades for Nolen vs the other DT many have mocked to Bengals - Kenneth Grant.

Nolen:
Age - 21 (turns 22 in Oct)
Size - 6'3", 305 lbs
Overall Grade - 88.9
Pass Rush Grade - 75.0
True Pass Set PR Grade - 80.8
Pass Rush Win Rate - 10.9%
Run Defense Grade - 91.6 (2nd in FBS among IDL behind Mason Graham)
Run Stop Rate - 11.9%

Grant:
Age - 21 (2 weeks younger than Nolen, turns 22 in Oct as well)
Size - 6'3", 339 lbs
Overall Grade - 83.7
Pass Rush Grade - 75.3
True Pass Set PR Grade - 77.4
Pass Rush Win Rate - 9.4%
Run Defense Grade - 87.5
Run Stop Rate - 7.9%

Both are good prospects, but some might be sleeping on Nolen's run defense, not realizing how great it actually was in 2024.
On the flip side, some might be sleeping on Grant's pass rush (like myself) given his lack of sacks in 2024.

Where do you lean - Nolen or Grant if it had to be one of them, and why?

Jenkins was great against the run in college as well, but the Bengals felt they needed a big body DT, so I think if it comes down between the two, they would select Nolen if they were running Lou's scheme. With Golden, I am less familiar with what he is looking for, so Nolan may well be the pick.

If both are there, or better yet the Bengals can trade back and get either, I would be satisfied. My big get would be finding a pass rusher to pair with Trey, or a super athletic linebacker to step into the multi-faceted "viper" role Golden uses to create chaos.

But back to the original question, gun to my head, I would opt for the Bengals to pick Grant because he would clog the middle and allow linebackers to make plays, which is not accounted for in the stat line. 

(02-18-2025, 02:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: I mean, we're talking a 3 tech(Nolen) vs a NT(Grant).

I go with Grant.  More upside, doesn't have the reported character concerns, and the pass rush potential as a NT is rare.  We need a Reader replacement, and he's it.  Plenty of good pass rushing 3 techs and edge rushers available later.

I have to admit, I also am partial to Grant. When was the last time you saw a man that large getting walled off on a play, and still run 30+ yards down the field and take a good RB down from behind?

(02-18-2025, 08:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have to admit, I also am partial to Grant. When was the last time you saw a man that large getting walled off on a play, and still run 30+ yards down the field and take a good RB down from behind?

I would love for the Bengals to find a 1st round trade partner in the 26 to 28 range, trade down in round 1, get extra picks in 2025 draft and draft Grant in round 1. I think he is going to be a late 1st round to early 2nd round pick. I think he can be a great backup the first 8 or 9 games and gain expereince and possibly start by end of the year and playoffs.

I think he has great upside as he gets stronger to bull rush the pocket.

Grant does not look like a 1st rounder to me

This is the draft to get a DT (I think we need two)- but there is only one maybe two, 1 tech/NT within top-50. There are 4-5 3 techs.

I feel that unless we are willing to wait for Deon Walker in round two, I like Grant in round 1 to fill our 1 tech need. However; I am concerned that he may not be there at 17. Someone could jump ahead of us for him.

The main site that I follow for prospects has Grant ranked first in both DT and NT class - ahead of Mason Graham in both categories.

In the DT category, Nolan is ranked sixth, with the following comment:
"2/15/25: Nolen had 48 tackles with 6.5 sacks, and two passes batted. Some team sources said they gave Nolen a backup grade because has a lot of bad tape. However, Nolen is a gifted athlete with a special skill set. That physical talent could cause him to go higher, but Nolen needs a lot of development. Some sources think he could go in the first round because of his skill set, and others say they have him much lower because of character concerns and the bad tape."

If we go Grant in round 1, we can get a 3 tech in round 3, and our D-Line interior is set. Deone Walker in round 3 would be a steal, I think. He can be a 1, 3 or 5 tech.

(02-18-2025, 07:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Character concerns? I haven't heard of them? Can you link?

Credit goes to Synric for finding this first.

https://atozsports.com/nfl-draft/2025-nfl-draft-notebook-walter-nolen-shavon-revel-princely-umanmielen-tetairoa-mcmillan/#google_vignette