(02-26-2025, 01:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here’s another stat;

Rhamondre Stevenson cracked 100 yards exactly once last season. Against the Cincinnati Bengals in week one.

But I do agree the offense sucked as well. Especially Hudson’s fumble on the goal line. And ofc special teams played their part in the loss (Chuck Fizzle’s fumble).

It’s almost like the entire team was unprepared.

Nah, we did pretty well on D holding them to 15 points. I think they only scored fewer than that 4 times last year,

Games are not scored on missed tackles and yards gained. 

(02-26-2025, 01:54 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nah, we did pretty well on D holding them to *15 points. I think they only scored fewer than that 4 times last year,

Games are not scored on missed tackles and yards gained. 

*16 points. They scored 16 or fewer 7 times last season.

Also, time of possession matters. NE won in that, too (34:03 to 25:57). Which is obviously going to happen when you can’t stop the run, and turn the ball over multiple times.

But I get it, we just need Joe to ball out to start better. If last season proved anything it’s that we tend to win most of the time when he does.

(02-25-2025, 06:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "Tobin on guards: our offensive line gets beat on. We had a ton of injuries."

Last 3 Years...
Cappa: 0 games missed
Volson: 0 games missed
Karras: 0 games missed

We have had THE healthiest IOL in the entire NFL over the last 3 years. 

Doesn't mean they weren't playing hurt. And when you take the line as a whole, Mims was playing some with a broken hand, we lost OBJ for a few games and T. Brown for the season. As bad as Cappa looked, I almost have to think he was playing with an injury. 

(02-25-2025, 08:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I was watching the replay on Facebook at the crippled gym while I was riding the exercise bike and was liking what I was hearing, even though I realize that a lot of it was just coach/fo speak.

Making Chase the highest paid non-QB is amazing and I love that we're not effing around or trying to play hardball. Duke knows that Burrow and Chase win us multiple Super Bowls if we treat them right and give them a bit of help.

Tobin's comments on the offensive line did worry me a bit but I'm glad Zac was a bit more realistic. 

I'm glad that Zac wants to use Brown more because I think he's perfect for our offense because he hits the hole so fast, even from shotgun, and is so explosive that teams have to cram the line to stop him, which they can't do when we have Burrow, especially if we can improve his protection.

I think our front office is going to go all-in because they know we just need to give our main guys some support and we'll be a dynasty!

I like your thinking, but the bolded above leaves me skeptical...We're talking the Brown's here!

(02-26-2025, 01:25 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Here’s another stat;

Rhamondre Stevenson cracked 100 yards exactly once last season. Against the Cincinnati Bengals in week one.

But I do agree the offense sucked as well. Especially Hudson’s fumble on the goal line. And ofc special teams played their part in the loss (Chuck Fizzle’s fumble).

It’s almost like the entire team was unprepared.

We'll know as soon as the preseason games if Zac is serious about improving the way they start the season. I've always thought that the starters should play, at least a quarter or even a couple of drives in every preseason game. I get wanting to protect players from injury, but each year at the beginning of the season the OL looks like 5 guys who all just met each other that day.

(02-25-2025, 06:23 PM)BengalsLUFC Wrote: Best presser we’ve ever heard from Duke but until the ink is dry in those deals they are hollow words.

If he pulls off 75% of what he was talking about today we win multiple rings so forgive me for being skeptical.

It's not up to Duke. He doesn't negotiate contracts or get deals done. His job is to find talent and build the roster. 

It's on Katie and Troy Blackburn now to get those deals done. If it doesnt happen, then blame should be pointed at them. 

(02-25-2025, 07:19 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Gotta try and figure out the early starts. But to me it's really as simple as letting Burrow get a little more work in preseason games. Then coming up with some game plans the for the first couple of weeks to take a little pressure off of Burrow so he doesn't have to be superman out of the gate.

I think I'm one of the very few that doesn't buy into the whole slow start thing: if this was a recurring, "problem," like many try to make it out to be, then it would mean the team would come out flat/uninspired/play poorly/etc.

If we go back and look at every game and situation for each game, since '20:

'20:

- We beat the Chargers, refs took it away from us and then Fat Randy missed a FG that should've been made.
- Lost to the Browns, who were a well-oiled machine in '20 and our defense couldn't stop anyone.
- Tied the Eagles, really was a weird game, but we didn't play poorly.

'21: (Burrow coming off of knee reconstruction)

- Beat the Vikings, played well throughout.
- Lost to the Bears, Burrow had a rough go at it, but the D played well and when Burrow got the ball to receivers, it was a good thing.
- We played VERY WELL against the Stoolers and exposed Ben for being done. D and O outplayed them.

'22: (Burrow coming off of appendicitis)

- Really should've beaten the Stoolers. Took Burrow's worst game of his career, a concussed Higgins and a LS injury to make us lose it, otherwise this would've been a win.
- Weird loss to the Cowboys. Played a decent game, but something was missing it seemed, the game was always within reach, but we weren't able to capitalize.
- Dominated a lowly Jets team and this was clearly a, "get back on track," game for the team.

'23: (Burrow couldn't walk)

- Burrow couldn't move and the Browns clobbered him, was an ugly game indeed.
- Played well against the Ravens, D just couldn't stop them.
- With Burrow still unable to walk, the D stepped up and played a superb game, coming up with timely plays.

'24: 

- Another ugly game, still should've won, a lot of stupid shit happened.
- Another game that we won, but the refs took it from us with a piss-poor call that I barely saw get called for the rest of the year. We played well.
- D was a sieve: the Offense played masterfully, but the defense was putrid.

So looking at these games, we really only played, "badly," on all sides in 2 games, both losses. We had mediocre/one side of the ball played well only showings in 8 of those games, going 1-6-1 and then we had 5 really good games and were 3-2 in those.

If there was one thing we could point to in order to say, "THAT'S the reason why they're losing games," then I can absolutely agree about changing something about the offseason, but truly, a lot of the games have been weird or just mediocre: only 2 of these 15 games were we truly BAD and played like we didn't belong and one happened when Burrow was hurt, the other was just flat-out weird (NE game this year). And then in half of these losses, a bounce here or a bounce there (which actually includes the NE game from this year) meant a win for us.

Thus, I've never subscribed to the whole narrative around, "slow starts," as each season has had different reasons why we've lost games, without one singular thing to point at AND we've played well-enough in 13 of the 15 games. I am hopeful that changing up the offseason program may shake things up a bit for the better (if even to try something different, just for difference sake), but I wouldn't be surprised if things aren't different wholesale from the previous 5 years, simply because the on-field product hasn't been as bad as the narrative seems.

(02-26-2025, 09:54 AM)Tomcat Wrote: I like your thinking, but the bolded above leaves me skeptical...We're talking the Brown's here!

In years prior to the past few, I'd agree, but I think Mike is completely out of the picture (even if he doesn't realize it yet) and Katie and Troy are willing to spend money, as evident by the indoor practice facility, and will do what it takes to put a winning team on the field!

It's a new Who-Dey!

(02-25-2025, 06:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "Tobin on guards: our offensive line gets beat on. We had a ton of injuries."

Last 3 Years...
Cappa: 0 games missed
Volson: 0 games missed
Karras: 0 games missed

We have had THE healthiest IOL in the entire NFL over the last 3 years. 

They don't get banged up by blocking and getting in the d-line's way.

The worst players are always iron men in that regard.

Back to the OP. Thanks to Pally for a great summary.

Zac -- "These are champagne problems." Translation -- Quality costs, and we're able and willing to pay it.

(02-26-2025, 11:48 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: In years prior to the past few, I'd agree, but I think Mike is completely out of the picture (even if he doesn't realize it yet) and Katie and Troy are willing to spend money, as evident by the indoor practice facility, and will do what it takes to put a winning team on the field!

It's a new Who-Dey!

I agree they spend money, i just hope they use the Cap in creative ways to bring more talent to the team like Burrow said the Eagles do. 

(02-26-2025, 12:09 PM)Tomcat Wrote: I agree they spend money, i just hope they use the Cap in creative ways to bring more talent to the team like Burrow said the Eagles do. 

I agree and I'm thinking/hoping that Duke is smart enough to manage the cap in creative ways. 

I realize that Taylor and the other coaches will give their opinions on who we want to keep and bring in, but I also think that Burrow saying that he's willing to restructure his contract to free up space to bring in players helps.

Hopefully free agents look at our team and see that, with Chase (when it gets done), Hendrickson (when it gets done), Brown, and whoever else, this team will have stability and they'll have job security as long as they keep playing at the level that they know they can play at.

(02-26-2025, 12:09 PM)Tomcat Wrote: I agree they spend money, i just hope they use the Cap in creative ways to bring more talent to the team like Burrow said the Eagles do. 

If you want to be like the Eagles you also need to draft incredibly well.

Also it seems like everyone that brings up wanting the Bengals to be more like the Eagles does it in the context of keeping Burrow/Chase/Tee together, but ignores that the Eagles two WRs combined for less than 2k yards because the Eagles had the 29th ranked pass offense (32nd in pass attempts) last year and the 2nd rushing offense (1st in rushing attempts). That's the opposite of the Bengals having the 1st passing offense (2nd in pass attempts) and 30th rushing offense (30th in rushing attempts).

If you want to be like the Eagles... draft much better, focus on the trenches, and then run the ball ~240 times more and throw the ball ~210 times less.

(02-26-2025, 03:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you want to be like the Eagles you also need to draft incredibly well.

Also it seems like everyone that brings up wanting the Bengals to be more like the Eagles does it in the context of keeping Burrow/Chase/Tee together, but ignores that the Eagles two WRs combined for less than 2k yards because the Eagles had the 29th ranked pass offense (32nd in pass attempts) last year and the 2nd rushing offense (1st in rushing attempts). That's the opposite of the Bengals having the 1st passing offense (2nd in pass attempts) and 30th rushing offense (30th in rushing attempts).

If you want to be like the Eagles... draft much better, focus on the trenches, and then run the ball ~240 times more and throw the ball ~210 times less.

Yep, be more like the Eagles lol

New #Bengals o-line coach Scott Peters gives his thoughts on the offensive line in Cincinnati pic.twitter.com/4NHh2Fkh6P

— Kelsey Conway (@KelseyLConway) February 26, 2025

Some topics of conversations with the coordinators.

Dan Pitcher spoke about how much Chase Brown showed that he could handle last year, what they learned and the value they saw when they went in two tight end sets, the priority to have better game flows so they don’t need to…

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) February 26, 2025

Al Golden: “No bad ideas at this time of year” as they rebuild the defense. It’s a good DL class, and they also have to use free agency to prepare for different draft contingencies. Jordan Battle took a good step last year. They’ll generate a concrete plan for CTB as they work to…

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) February 26, 2025

(02-26-2025, 11:28 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think I'm one of the very few that doesn't buy into the whole slow start thing: if this was a recurring, "problem," like many try to make it out to be, then it would mean the team would come out flat/uninspired/play poorly/etc.

If we go back and look at every game and situation for each game, since '20:

'20:

- We beat the Chargers, refs took it away from us and then Fat Randy missed a FG that should've been made.
- Lost to the Browns, who were a well-oiled machine in '20 and our defense couldn't stop anyone.
- Tied the Eagles, really was a weird game, but we didn't play poorly.

'21: (Burrow coming off of knee reconstruction)

- Beat the Vikings, played well throughout.
- Lost to the Bears, Burrow had a rough go at it, but the D played well and when Burrow got the ball to receivers, it was a good thing.
- We played VERY WELL against the Stoolers and exposed Ben for being done. D and O outplayed them.

'22: (Burrow coming off of appendicitis)

- Really should've beaten the Stoolers. Took Burrow's worst game of his career, a concussed Higgins and a LS injury to make us lose it, otherwise this would've been a win.
- Weird loss to the Cowboys. Played a decent game, but something was missing it seemed, the game was always within reach, but we weren't able to capitalize.
- Dominated a lowly Jets team and this was clearly a, "get back on track," game for the team.

'23: (Burrow couldn't walk)

- Burrow couldn't move and the Browns clobbered him, was an ugly game indeed.
- Played well against the Ravens, D just couldn't stop them.
- With Burrow still unable to walk, the D stepped up and played a superb game, coming up with timely plays.

'24: 

- Another ugly game, still should've won, a lot of stupid shit happened.
- Another game that we won, but the refs took it from us with a piss-poor call that I barely saw get called for the rest of the year. We played well.
- D was a sieve: the Offense played masterfully, but the defense was putrid.

So looking at these games, we really only played, "badly," on all sides in 2 games, both losses. We had mediocre/one side of the ball played well only showings in 8 of those games, going 1-6-1 and then we had 5 really good games and were 3-2 in those.

If there was one thing we could point to in order to say, "THAT'S the reason why they're losing games," then I can absolutely agree about changing something about the offseason, but truly, a lot of the games have been weird or just mediocre: only 2 of these 15 games were we truly BAD and played like we didn't belong and one happened when Burrow was hurt, the other was just flat-out weird (NE game this year). And then in half of these losses, a bounce here or a bounce there (which actually includes the NE game from this year) meant a win for us.

Thus, I've never subscribed to the whole narrative around, "slow starts," as each season has had different reasons why we've lost games, without one singular thing to point at AND we've played well-enough in 13 of the 15 games. I am hopeful that changing up the offseason program may shake things up a bit for the better (if even to try something different, just for difference sake), but I wouldn't be surprised if things aren't different wholesale from the previous 5 years, simply because the on-field product hasn't been as bad as the narrative seems.

There does seem to be a common thread though and it's Burrow. This past year he seemed to get thru it much quicker only the one game so the injuries may have prolonged in the previous two seasons and in 21' we may not have had that high of a bar for him being his 2nd season and coming back from knee surgery. But following people on Twitter it's been a common thread of is Burrow okay? He's not seeing the field properly and pulling the trigger when he normally does. To me this falls more on the coaches not gameplanning to help him out enough and just getting some preseason work although I realize that hasn't been possible some of these years. I certainly don't think we need to completely rethink our offseason training as I read Zacs words to be but as long as it's done smartly it shouldn't hurt.

(02-26-2025, 07:57 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: There does seem to be a common thread though and it's Burrow. This past year he seemed to get thru it much quicker only the one game so the injuries may have prolonged in the previous two seasons and in 21' we may not have had that high of a bar for him being his 2nd season and coming back from knee surgery. But following people on Twitter it's been a common thread of is Burrow okay? He's not seeing the field properly and pulling the trigger when he normally does. To me this falls more on the coaches not gameplanning to help him out enough and just getting some preseason work although I realize that hasn't been possible some of these years. I certainly don't think we need to completely rethink our offseason training as I read Zacs words to be but as long as it's done smartly it shouldn't hurt.

All the more reason to have the starters playing a Quarter, at least two possessions in preseason games. Offense needs that "real feel" of game action, the OL definitely needs the reps for continuity and the defense obviously could use the work to get their asses on the same page.

I sure hope that he's bluffing about the guard situation. It never fails to bite them when they undervalue the position.

Peters was pretty blunt about the play at Guard being unacceptable.

(02-26-2025, 08:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All the more reason to have the starters playing a Quarter, at least two possessions in preseason games. Offense needs that "real feel" of game action, the OL definitely needs the reps for continuity and the defense obviously could use the work to get their asses on the same page.

I agree. Especially true this year with alot of new faces on defense possibly.