(03-10-2025, 02:55 PM)pulses Wrote: But Karras wasn't part of the problem.

I was making a point that, just like karras, BJ Hill isnt bad and not part of the problem. The young guys around Hill were just so terrible. Rankins obviously included

(03-10-2025, 02:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: How do players become proven without giving them a chance to prove themselves?

In fact, the Chiefs implored this strategy a few ago when they rolled out the 2022 draft class.
Trent McDuffie, George Karlaftis, Leo Chenal, and Isaiah Pacheco really jumped in to fill critical gaps for that team.

I'm not the biggest fan of the DL they got, but they invested early draft picks and those guys need some more playing time if we want to get anything out of their rookie deals.

I personally think any of the DL in Rd 1 this year would upgrade over Jenkins, Jackson, and Murphy.
And depending on how the remaining cap ends up, any FA they bring in for DT may not really be much better than Jenkins and Jackson.

It's one thing to fill a hole with an unproven player or a first round pick. 

It's another thing to fill multiple holes accross the board with unproven players. You REALLY want to go into week 1 looking like this? 

Myles Murphy
Mckinley Jackson/Kris Jenkins
BJ Hill 
Hendrickson or another unproven player

I do not. 

This is a ***** super bowl window season. We need to start acting like it. 

(03-10-2025, 01:56 PM)CottonHill Wrote: Awful. This just tells us they weren’t able to fill the interior with 2 draft picks last year.

One has absolutely 0 to do with the other.

You need 4-5 DTs minimum. 

(03-10-2025, 03:07 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's one thing to fill a hole with an unproven player or a first round pick. 

It's another thing to fill multiple holes accross the board with unproven players. You REALLY want to go into week 1 looking like this? 

Myles Murphy
Mckinley Jackson/Kris Jenkins
BJ Hill 
Hendrickson or another unproven player

I do not. 

This is a ***** super bowl window season. We need to start acting like it. 

Into Week 1 with that? No.
But could I possibly be ok with 1-2 draft picks being in the mix with where you have Jackson and Murphy?
Possibly, depending on the player selected.

I don't see the Bengals doing much with the remaining cap they have.
They should have ~$20 mill more to spend in FA before they hit their own self-imposed cap that they stop at (~$10 mill remaining).
I'm predicting ~$20 mill because I'm factoring in around $11 mill cap hit for Hill to eat into the $44 mill they got.
They still need to backfill the spots from Cappa, Rankins, Hubbard, Ossai, ADG, Hilton.
If that's really the amount they have, they aren't getting all true, proven vets who give confidence in an upgrade to replace Cappa, Rankins, and Hubbard.
They're gonna have to go to the draft for at least one, if not 2-3 of the spots.

I would also add - Do we want yet again to see a 1st rounder ride the bench? I want my 1st rounders to be someone who can start immediately.

768 yearly snap average over 3 years is hard to ignore. Would love to see that come down to ~500 in a true rotation or even less if someone else excels.

(03-10-2025, 04:00 PM)puddycat Wrote: 768 yearly snap average over 3 years is hard to ignore.  Would love to see that come down to ~500 in a true rotation or even less if someone else excels.

For sure. BJ stays healthy too which is another plus.

(03-10-2025, 02:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Some players are content to accept less money that they can get on the open market because they are happy with the team they are on; they like where they live and don't want to relocate their families. I, for one, and happy that he's still here. He's undervalued by many fans, but not I. You never have to worry about a guy like BJ not giving 100% of his effort. He sets a good example for the young DTs to follow.

Yeah I agree. I was just commenting how crazy contracts/money spent in the NFL increases even over a 2-3 year window. 

(03-10-2025, 03:07 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's one thing to fill a hole with an unproven player or a first round pick. 

It's another thing to fill multiple holes accross the board with unproven players. You REALLY want to go into week 1 looking like this? 

Myles Murphy
Mckinley Jackson/Kris Jenkins
BJ Hill 
Hendrickson or another unproven player

I do not. 

This is a ***** super bowl window season. We need to start acting like it. 

I do ..those rookies  and Murphy were all playing better the last 5-6 games of the season last year

(03-10-2025, 04:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: For sure. BJ stays healthy too which is another plus.

yep...and those rookies and second year player Murphy were all playing pretty darn good the last 5-6 games of the season..I think the bengals go for an edge rusher and receiver first two rounds of the draft and there are some good ones available

(03-10-2025, 02:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I was making a point that, just like karras, BJ Hill isnt bad and not part of the problem. The young guys around Hill were just so terrible. Rankins obviously included

I think Jackson and Jenkins are gonna be much better this year.

(03-10-2025, 04:47 PM)pulses Wrote: I think Jackson and Jenkins are gonna be much better this year.

1000%..they looked really good the last five games of the season last year and so did murphy

Not an exciting move, but was probably the caliber of player we would have signed to replace him.

It's an objectively crappy FA class overall.

A few years ago, when BJ played between a healthy Hubbard and Reader, he produced much better.

Last year between an injured Hubbard and Ranking or a rookie the numbers dropped.

In a good rotation he can produce.

Glad to have Hill back. He's been a good player for us.

(03-10-2025, 04:47 PM)pulses Wrote: I think Jackson and Jenkins are gonna be much better this year.

I think so as well.  As has been said, the last few weeks the defense looked better.  You also have to point out Jackson missed most of training camp and the first few weeks of the season because he was on IR with the knee injury.  Jenkins missed some time at the beginning of the season because of the broken thumb.  When he came back he had to wear a club for awhile.  Neither one of these guys had a full year.  I think you will see some good improvement from them this season.

Ngl i love BJ Hill. Really wish he was back as the rotational guy but he hasn’t been bad at all as our every down guy

(03-10-2025, 04:47 PM)pulses Wrote: I think Jackson and Jenkins are gonna be much better this year.

We are kinda at the point where we need a guy to emerge. We’ve drafted so poorly and won’t sign our own guys so we need guys to just play better

I like BJ Hill and he’s been a fine player for us but I’d have rather this money had been spent on more of an impact player.

This DT room doesn’t give much in the passing game. They’re going to need to hit big in the draft on a 3T who can rush the passer.

(03-10-2025, 06:57 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: A few years ago, when BJ played between a healthy Hubbard and Reader, he produced much better.

Last year between an injured Hubbard and Ranking or a rookie the numbers dropped.

In a good rotation he can produce.

You don't really pay attention to football in the trenches other than sacks and such, do you? BJ Hill had the 2nd most Tackles of his career this year, and the most TFL.

(03-10-2025, 08:48 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I like BJ Hill and he’s been a fine player for us but I’d have rather this money had been spent on more of an impact player.

This DT room doesn’t give much in the passing game. They’re going to need to hit big in the draft on a 3T who can rush the passer.

It looks like they'll have to get impact DL in the draft and hope they grow quicker than last year.  With the interior run defense, they can afford to play a young pass rusher that's a little weaker vs the run.  They also may take a DE type that can kick inside to DT on passing downs too.