Even if they somehow re-sign Chase, Higgins and Trey..

My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak...This front office is truly clueless.

(03-12-2025, 11:57 AM)Trademark Wrote: Even if they somehow re-sign Chase, Higgins and Trey..

My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak...This front office is truly clueless.

First, give a nice comparison to support your thread, I might agree with you, but we did not make playoffs last two years, maybe turnover it what we need.

Right now they are weaker at Guard and stronger at LB and DT. More moves will come.

(03-12-2025, 11:57 AM)Trademark Wrote: Even if they somehow re-sign Chase, Higgins and Trey..

My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak...This front office is truly clueless.

It is day 1 (at 4 p.m). of free agency.

As of today, a ton of teams are worse than they were in 2024

Eagles - Lost Williams and Sweat
Chiefs - lost Reid, Thuney, Wharton and have several others not signed
49ers - Lost too many to mention
Steelers (have no QB)
Ravens - gained Hopkins, but lost starting OT, CB and LB
Browns 
Jets - no starting QB
Giants - no starting QB
Vikings - lost starting QB
Falcons - lost 2 starting OL

Bills should be better, but other contenders in the AFC are either the same or worse.

Long way to go in FA, way too early to state any team will be better or worse in 2025.

I'm not sold signing a player only worth 2 years 3m would be considered an upgrade or making us "stronger" at LB.

Cheaper yes...

A journey man that shined when finally playing at age 29 due to injury during the playoffs.... We talking about Scott? Because we know how that ended. 

(03-12-2025, 11:57 AM)Trademark Wrote: Even if they somehow re-sign Chase, Higgins and Trey..

My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak...This front office is truly clueless.

I agree.

As of right now...
Guard is not improved, possibly worse than last season.
DE is not improved, possibly worse than last season.
DBs unknown because we haven't seen who will take over for Hilton at slot.
DL pass rush is not improved.

About the only thing that may be improved is run defense with Slaton added.

I do think if push comes to shove, they can get impactful contributors at DE and DT plus a competent starter at OG in Days 1 and 2 of the draft who can contribute right away. But I'd like 1-2 more additions in FA so as to not REQUIRE that they all hit.

(03-12-2025, 12:19 PM)Joelist Wrote: Right now they are weaker at Guard and stronger at LB and DT. More moves will come.

I would add it was unlucky to lose our 2 starting CB's and best LB in 2024. Getting those 3 back healthy will make us better on defense in 2025. Hopefully we also do not lose 3 DT's (2 starters Rankins and Hill) for any stretch of 2025. It is one thing to lose 1, but nt too many teams can overcome 3 DT's not able to play.

On paper maybe but it’s never black and white
Hard to totally give up on a team with a franchise QB, top 3 WR etc.
Also, they had a string of injuries hit the DBs last year - they are a young and talented group but Golden needs to get it out of them.

Every season is different and for 2024 if they make a FG in one game or avoid a fumble in another then they are an 11 win team and in the post season.

I think no matter what happens for the remainder of the off season they will have a shot at being a playofff team. Now I would feel much better with a couple of extensions and at least 1 FA guard but they will be OK.

(03-12-2025, 12:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree.

As of right now...
Guard is not improved, possibly worse than last season.
DE is not improved, possibly worse than last season.
DBs unknown because we haven't seen who will take over for Hilton at slot.
DL pass rush is not improved.

About the only thing that may be improved is run defense with Slaton added.

I do think if push comes to shove, they can get impactful contributors at DE and DT plus a competent starter at OG in Days 1 and 2 of the draft who can contribute right away. But I'd like 1-2 more additions in FA so as to not REQUIRE that they all hit.

Hubbard was not good in 2024 and had lost his job to Murphy before he was hurt. DB's had 2 starters hurt and lost for the year. DB room due to injury alone and how Newton and others played is a huge increase in talent.
Guard sucked with Cappas and Volson, in the end it will be a lot better (we will sign a vet and add a rookie (possibly plug and play G in the draft).

I do agree, our pass rush has not improved yet.

Do you feel missing 2 starting CB's hurt our defense in 2024? Did it hurt losing Rankins for the year?

Yes, all teams have injuries, but no team can have enough backups to be as good as starters if they lose 2 or 3 for year or during long stretches.

(03-12-2025, 12:44 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Hubbard was not good in 2024 and had lost his job to Murphy before he was hurt. DB's had 2 starters hurt and lost for the year. DB room due to injury alone and how Newton and others played is a huge increase in talent.
Guard sucked with Cappas and Volson, in the end it will be a lot better (we will sign a vet and add a rookie (possibly plug and play G in the draft).

I do agree, our pass rush has not improved yet.

Do you feel missing 2 starting CB's hurt our defense in 2024? Did it hurt losing Rankins for the year?

Yes, all teams have injuries, but no team can have enough backups to be as good as starters if they lose 2 or 3 for year or during long stretches.

I'm factoring them in as being back to the norm.
Injuries happen, but IMO those two CB injuries wasn't the reason the team didn't go deep into the playoffs.
Rankins was not good even when on the field, so no loss there.

(03-12-2025, 11:57 AM)Trademark Wrote: My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak..

I'm shocked I tell ya.... shocked!!

(03-12-2025, 12:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm factoring them in as being back to the norm.
Injuries happen, but IMO those two CB injuries wasn't the reason the team didn't go deep into the playoffs.
Rankins was not good even when on the field, so no loss there.

So you think Rankins was a liability and he was cut. We added a run stopper and have 2 young DT's who played better by the end of the year.

How has our DL gotten worse? I am confused. I get the pass rush is the same, but against the run we should be much better.

One way to beat the Bengals is to keep our offense off the field. Our defense's inability to stop the run put our defense in a lot of 3rd and less than 4 situations. It also allowed teams to eat up the clock and made Joe a spectator too often.

I think many fans are discounting the attempt to fix our run defense because they are fixated on adding a DT with great pass rushig skills (albeit same player is average to bad against the run).

We win the LOS, we are a better team. They have made a move to improve our run defense. Now, they need to add a vet guard minimum and an Edge rusher to help Trey on 3rd and long. They do and we are a better team even if Ossai and Murphy show little to no imrovement.

(03-12-2025, 11:57 AM)Trademark Wrote: Even if they somehow re-sign Chase, Higgins and Trey..

My optimism for the upcoming season is bleak...This front office is truly clueless.

The only positive contributors we have lost are ADG (replaced by Burks at half the price with better grades) and Hilton (who has not signed elsewhere yet). 

We have upgraded NT/DT, LB, and RB.And I suspect (hope) both G spots will soon follow. 

If we can actually get Tee/Chase done & a Burrow restructure, we could also have some space to do a bit of modest work at S, CB, WR, DE, or LB.

Plus the draft has not happened yet. 

The OP is not comparing apples to apples.

I think the optimistic crowd is going to have to rely on the new D coaches as the "upgrade/improvement"......

(03-12-2025, 12:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm factoring them in as being back to the norm.
Injuries happen, but IMO those two CB injuries wasn't the reason the team didn't go deep into the playoffs.
Rankins was not good even when on the field, so no loss there.

The interior DL situation is night and day better heading into 2025 that it was heading into 2024. Last year we had BJ Hill, two rookies and a couple of bums, none of which was a NT. This year we have BJ Hill a couple of 2nd year guys that showed a little promise as rookies and a proven, battle tested NT. Add a pass rushing 3T in the draft and that'll be a complete room.

(03-12-2025, 01:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So you think Rankins was a liability and he was cut. We added a run stopper and have 2 young DT's who played better by the end of the year.

How has our DL gotten worse? I am confused. I get the pass rush is the same, but against the run we should be much better.

One way to beat the Bengals is to keep our offense off the field. Our defense's inability to stop the run put our defense in a lot of 3rd and less than 4 situations. It also allowed teams to eat up the clock and made Joe a spectator too often.

I think many fans are discounting the attempt to fix our run defense because they are fixated on adding a DT with great pass rushig skills (albeit same player is average to bad against the run).

We win the LOS, we are a better team. They have made a move to improve our run defense. Now, they need to add a vet guard minimum and an Edge rusher to help Trey on 3rd and long. They do and we are a better team even if Ossai and Murphy show little to no imrovement.

In regard to the DL, I said...
"DE is not improved, possibly worse than last season.
DL pass rush is not improved."


So I wasn't necessarily saying it WAS worse, just that it could be.
I'm not sold on Jenkins, Jackson, Murphy, and Ossai actually having improved from last year, and they were overall not good last year aside from Ossai's final 4-5 weeks.
If Ossai's 2025 will be like his final month of 2024, it will be improved. But hard to discount the previous time before that until we get a larger sample set with Ossai this year.


The pass rush still has not been improved, as Slaton is just a run stuffer.

(03-12-2025, 01:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think the optimistic crowd is going to have to rely on the new D coaches as the "upgrade/improvement"......

One of the biggest problems last year was stopping the run. We signed one of the best run stopping DT's to play alongside Hill. And Jenkins Jr. and McKinley now have playing time and another year to mature. You really don't see that as an improvement?

We are sold that we signed one of the best run stoppers sure. A player not on anyone's radar or on  any top DT FA list.... 

The second year tackles I have hope for but have to "wait and see" before deeming them an upgrade. Hill? We could have replaced with a younger up and coming talent. 

The needle hasn't moved for me on the defense no....

Our FA model that got us to the SB of signing FA's going into a 2nd contract entering their prime has been forgotten. Hill, Oren, MG all older players. We got older, did we get better? 

(03-12-2025, 02:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: One of the biggest problems last year was stopping the run. We signed one of the best run stopping DT's to play alongside Hill. And Jenkins Jr. and McKinley now have playing time and another year to mature. You really don't see that as an improvement?

I personally have always notoriously prioritized the pass rush over run stopping.
I think it's because I have always considered run stopping to be what nearly every DT should be able to do, but pass rush being harder.

(03-12-2025, 02:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I personally have always notoriously prioritized the pass rush over run stopping.
I think it's because I have always considered run stopping to be what nearly every DT should be able to do, but pass rush being harder.

If it was easy stopping the run, teams would never run the ball. There are great run blockers and great running backs that make it very hard to stop the run. A running back has a 6 yard head start against a stationary DT being blocked by OG's and centers who weigh 300 to 330 lbs. How is that easy? You can win the battle and still have to stop a guy like Henry who weighs 235 to 240 lbs. and a sprinter as well.