(03-22-2025, 06:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have called for them to be more creative with the structure of contracts for years. It is their business model, nothing to do with cheap or in. my opinion not wanting to win. If the Super Bowl winner was based on the amount of money teams spend in FA, then the Pats, Chargers and Bears should win the Super Bowl in 2025, they sent the most.

The Bengals have a plan, sorry it is not your plan or someone else's plan (whomever whined about the cap space use) to win it all in 2025. I still feel we can be a very good team in 2025. The Bengals may or may not add more pieces in 2025. I think they will, you think they can't afford more because of poor cap management. We differ on  FO management. I hate dead cap. Bengals FO hates dead cap. Other teams have 25 to 35 million each year in dead cap by kicking the can down the road, you applaud them.

I will take our cap sitaution over the Saints and other teams. Click on teams and look at their dead money and then tell me you are still impressed they don't have that money to spend to. make their rosters better.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2025

Bucs - over 30 million in dead cap space and over the cap right now so they have to do more maneuvering to get under the cap
Rams - over 45 million in dead cap space and over the cap right now so more maneuvering needs to be done toget under the cap
Bills - over 30 million in dead cap space and have to maneuver to create more cap space
Texans - over 36 million in dead money and have to maneuver to create more cap space

Jets - have no franchise QB and heading for over 70 million in dead money in 2025 and a large dead money hit in 2026 as well

I call this gross mismangement by this teams.

I always taught my children, never use a credt card unless you can pay the bill in full by the end of the month. There will be a time if you borrow money you can't pay monthly when you lose your job or an emergency occurs.

I do believe Bengals could structure deals so more of the contract is pushed down the road. But, it has nothing to do with cash, it is an accounting method and nothing more. To say if they had more cap the team would have brought in THE RIGHT PLAYERS WITH THE EXTRA CAP is pure speculation.

now that you have clarified the Higgins /Chase situation..we can move on to the draft and baseball..Thanks for the closure

(03-23-2025, 01:38 AM)sandwedge Wrote: A bit overreacting aren't we?

I don't think that post specifically was overreacting. But I did have another one or so that was. It's just because I see how close they are with the way Burrow was playing with Chase and Co. The only thing i wanted was a starting caliber guard which in the end appeared Zeitler was our only option. Just sucks that he was affordable.

(03-23-2025, 12:26 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Over the cap has Bengals at over 15 million left and that includes a 5 million stash for injuries and 16 PS players and 5 draft picks and the Patrck signing.

Sptrac has them at 12 milion so not sure whih one or if either has it correct. But they still have cap money to spend. Why do they need to create more cap money now?  Bengals fans want the team to go all in to win whch is fine, but not fine for those same fans to go all in on the team can't win unless every free agent they want is signed.

I get it, fans don't trust the FO. I do trust the FO mainly because if not, I need to quit being a fan. I will always choose hope over gloom. I think the 2025 team if they have a bad draft and don't sign one more FA will win at least 10 games and make the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, I have faith and trust in Joe Burrow to win one game at a time at home or on the road.

Others are saying the team sucks and we have not drafted yet. The gloom and doom croud gets tiresome and old. But hey by all means live your Bengals lives in despair, no skin off my back. For those fans, the Bengals will win in spite of your lack of support.

I'm not doom and gloom. I just can't by in to lying to myself at the moment. I'm sure that will change as the season draws near. I bought into the FO on the oline before the 2020 season and that didn't work out to well. We just invested heavily into the offense and we need to protect that investment. It now looks like that will take 2 early picks for the IOL and let the defense priorities take a back seat. Which I'm fine with and have that rebuild take a couple years. Just don't let Burrow get pummeled again we literally can't afford for this to happen.

Bengals could have structured Chase and Tee without adding large dead cap and fit and extra 15m ish under the cap in 2025.


The Bengals structure the way they do to meet the "must spend 90%(?) of the cap in a 3 year span" NFL Rule without dropping large lump sums like most teams do.

(03-23-2025, 10:51 AM)Synric Wrote: Bengals could have structured Chase and Tee without adding large dead cap and fit and extra 15m ish under the cap in 2025.


The Bengals structure the way they do to meet the "must spend 90%(?) of the cap in a 3 year span" NFL Rule without dropping large lump sums like most teams do.

Bengals spent 2% less in 2021 to 2023 than the league average. To say Bengals have not spent money is not accurate. There are 11 teams worse and they have spent a lot of cash in 2025 so they may rise on the list of cash spent from 2023 to 2025 when we see new calculations.

Yes, they could have structured the contracts of Tee and Chase to gain more cap space in 2025, but it appears they are looking at 2026 as well.

They still have 12 to 15 million to spend (includes draft and all players currentlly siged and also practice squad) so let's see if they spend it on additional FA's or roll it over for 2026. I think they will sgn at least one more vet guard at a minimum. I am not sure the FO sees Edge, Safety or DT as an area they need to address prior to the draft, but we will see when roster is set prior to TC in July.

(03-23-2025, 11:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals spent 2% less in 2021 to 2023 than the league average. To say Bengals have not spent money is not accurate. There are 11 teams worse and they have spent a lot of cash in 2025 so they may rise on the list of cash spent from 2023 to 2025 when we see new calculations.

Yes, they could have structured the contracts of Tee and Chase to gain more cap space in 2025, but it appears they are looking at 2026 as well.

They still have 12 to 15 million to spend (includes draft and all players currentlly siged and also practice squad) so let's see if they spend it on additional FA's or roll it over for 2026. I think they will sgn at least one more vet guard at a minimum. I am not sure the FO sees Edge, Safety or DT as an area they need to address priot to the draft, but we will see when roster is set prior to TC in Juy.

No their structure makes the spending look league average but they aren't spending what other teams are who consistently dump large lump sums. 


Anyone mentioning dead cap as a reason why they spend the way they do doesn't understand how thr NFL structures contracts. Dead cap means absolutely nothing. The Salary Cap means absolutely nothing because you can manipulate it with large lump sums. 

If the Bengals had the league average Year-1 cap hits for Tee Higgins, Ja'Marr Chase, BJ Hill and TJ Slaton instead of what they did, they would currently have an EXTRA $28.8M in cap space for 2025.

"Who would they spend that on?"

This is easier to answer if we assume they get 3/4 of these deals done earlier and go into Free Agency with the aggressiveness many of us would like.

What could they have done with another $28M in cap space at the start of free agency? LOTS.

So instead, they'll go into 2026 free agency with $86M in cap space and NOBODY worth extending on the roster.

That number jumps up to a projected $140M in cap space in 2027.

This roster is extremely thin because of the way they've drafted and structured contracts.

Everyone is saying it, but this upcoming draft is CRITICAL to their future success

This is from goodberry it wouldn't let me copy the post. But this is what is so troubling to me. If the Bengals had just done league average 1st year cap hits they would have an extra 28mil in cap space. I'm not saying go from 0 to 1000 or sign one of those expensive guards or Milton Williams. Just do the average in a attempt to maximize your talent.

(03-23-2025, 11:24 AM)Synric Wrote: No their structure makes the spending look league average but they aren't spending what other teams are who consistently dump large lump sums. 


Anyone mentioning dead cap as a reason why they spend the way they do doesn't understand how thr NFL structures contracts. Dead cap means absolutely nothing. The Salary Cap means absolutely nothing because you can manipulate it with large lump sums. 

Tell that to the Browns 

(03-23-2025, 12:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Tell that to the Browns 

The Brown just handed Deshaun Watson another large lump sums to lower the cap hits so they could make Garrett the highest paid non-qb (for a week). Dead Cap and the Salary Cap are manipulated by large lump sums allowing teams to spend well over the salary cap.

(03-23-2025, 12:12 PM)Synric Wrote: The Brown just handed Deshaun Watson another large lump sums to lower the cap hits so they could make Garrett the highest paid non-qb (for a week). Dead Cap and the Salary Cap are manipulated by large lump sums allowing teams to spend well over the salary cap.

Yeah i don't want to do what the Browns did. But the picks given up is what hurt them. They still haven't had to deal with any financial repercussions. 

(03-23-2025, 09:54 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't think that post specifically was overreacting. But I did have another one or so that was. It's just because I see how close they are with the way Burrow was playing with Chase and Co. The only thing i wanted was a starting caliber guard which in the end appeared Zeitler was our only option. Just sucks that he was affordable.

Fair enough. My understanding is Zeitler wasn't entertaining the thought of coming back here. Apparently his family didn't like Cincy.

(03-23-2025, 12:12 PM)Synric Wrote: The Brown just handed Deshaun Watson another large lump sums to lower the cap hits so they could make Garrett the highest paid non-qb (for a week). Dead Cap and the Salary Cap are manipulated by large lump sums allowing teams to spend well over the salary cap.

Yes, but you want to focus on only one way teams manipulate the cap. The other is adding void years to the deal which has zero to with cash spend. The Bengals could have added up to 5 void years on Chase's contract and 4 years on to Tee's. They did not do and cash had nothing to do with it.

It appears they are doing the same thing of not pushing cap out further by not using either method. But you nd others want to ignore the void year methods a ton of team use to manipulate the cap and has zero to do with cash spend.

I agree the Bengals could easily create more cap room, I don't agree it is because of cash spend. They obviously refuse to use much of any method other than void years on JB's contract.

I also think if the Bengals had 40 to 70 million of dea cap space (less to spend on FA's), they FO would be croticised for it for not having the money to sign FA's or their own. In 2026, we have Trey, Hill. Ossai and others not under contract. So for anyone to say we have no needs in 2026 is also false.

(03-23-2025, 12:12 PM)Synric Wrote: The Brown just handed Deshaun Watson another large lump sums to lower the cap hits so they could make Garrett the highest paid non-qb (for a week). Dead Cap and the Salary Cap are manipulated by large lump sums allowing teams to spend well over the salary cap.

(03-23-2025, 12:22 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah i don't want to do what the Browns did. But the picks given up is what hurt them. They still haven't had to deal with any financial repercussions. 

I guess we'll just disagree on the assertion that dead cap doesn't hurt a team.
Watson "only" costs them $32 Mil this year due to restructure while he rehabs, but in 2026 he'll cost $82 Mil and will cost them $88 Mil over the next 3 years when he's not even on the team. 

The amount owed just doesn't disappear. A multi-Billionaire like Haslam can free up a little each year (something a millionaire like Mike Brown cannot do) but the team still owes it and it hurts if the player is not producing 

(03-23-2025, 12:22 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah i don't want to do what the Browns did. But the picks given up is what hurt them. They still haven't had to deal with any financial repercussions. 

Really? So you think if they had a choice they would have not fixed the QB room in free agency if they were not saddled with a Watson guaranteed contract for a really bad QB?

How much money did they send in 2024in free agency?

How about 2025 thus far?

Then there is the Ravens who are looking at having all kinds of ded money locked into a kicker they will be forced to pay even if suspended all of 2025. If the Bengals were in that boat wth Mac, this board would explode with anger.

I ask the same question. How much cash did the Ravens spend in free agency in 2024? 2025?

How much have the Eagles spent in FA in 2025?

Why aren't these teams going all in? The Ravens have won nothing in recent historu=y. The Bill don't have a #1 WR on their roster. Why?

(03-23-2025, 12:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guess we'll just disagree on the assertion that dead cap doesn't hurt a team.
Watson "only" costs them $32 Mil this year due to restructure while he rehabs, but in 2026 he'll cost $82 Mil and will cost them $88 Mil over the next 3 years when he's not even on the team. 

The amount owed just doesn't disappear. A multi-Billionaire like Haslam can free up a little each year (something a millionaire like Mike Brown cannot do) but the team still owes it and it hurts if the player is not producing 

Sure it hurts. They took a swing and it was a massive miss as far as production. It will hinder them in the future but we have yet to see it and if I had to venture a guess it won't be a debilitating impact. For as massive as a contract and as massive as a miss as it was to potentially not have that big of an impact shows that it's not that big a risk to push the chips in. If the Browns take a QB with they're 1st pick and he works out as far as they give him the 2nd contract you probably never really feel the financial impact of the Watson deal. 

(03-23-2025, 01:00 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Sure it hurts. They took a swing and it was a massive miss as far as production. It will hinder them in the future but we have yet to see it and if I had to venture a guess it won't be a debilitating impact. For as massive as a contract and as massive as a miss as it was to potentially not have that big of an impact shows that it's not that big a risk to push the chips in. If the Browns take a QB with they're 1st pick and he works out as far as they give him the 2nd contract you probably never really feel the financial impact of the Watson deal. 

Browns option is to reach with #2 pick (neither QB is ranked in top 10 and do not make most picks with no risk lists either) and pass up one of the best 2 picks in the draft due to a bad contract with Watson.

Again, if this were the Bengals you would applaud them for going on a limb, a limb already badly dammaged and ready to break.

If does no good to spend money and not get a great return. In FA, it is common teams overpay and never get the return they were hoping. There is no guarantee Fries will live up to his contract for example.

(03-23-2025, 01:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Browns option is to reach with #2 pick (neither QB is ranked in top 10 and do not make most picks with no risk lists either) and pass up one of the best 2 picks in the draft due to a bad contract with Watson.

Again, if this were the Bengals you would applaud them for going on a limb, a limb already badly dammaged and ready to break.

If does no good to spend money and not get a great return. In FA, it is common teams overpay and never get the return they were hoping. There is no guarantee Fries will live up to his contract for example.

The QB was just an example. Perhaps they get a 2nd rd QB etc. 
The risk I'm asking the Bengals to take isn't nearly as severe as what the Browns did we have our QB and any other position will have inherently less risk involved. 
Also I'm not saying Fries or any other FA that got a big contract just a guard who on paper is an obvious upgrade/legitimate starter. 
FA is all but over so it may have only been Zeitler which i don't put much stock into reports of he wouldn't come here. I think a 2yr deal 20milish gets him here. 
But again FA is all but over so I'm not expecting anything else but I just don't know what we can realistically expect out of draft with 6 picks and the holes we have. Perhaps we lower our asking price for Trey or try and get a solid guard and lower pick for him. I really don't want to trade him but he wants and deserves compensation and if we are on a multi year rebuild it may be best to think beyond the 2 or 3 yrs he could be here.

(03-23-2025, 01:00 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Sure it hurts. They took a swing and it was a massive miss as far as production. It will hinder them in the future but we have yet to see it and if I had to venture a guess it won't be a debilitating impact. For as massive as a contract and as massive as a miss as it was to potentially not have that big of an impact shows that it's not that big a risk to push the chips in. If the Browns take a QB with they're 1st pick and he works out as far as they give him the 2nd contract you probably never really feel the financial impact of the Watson deal. 

People are just pointing out the extremes. The Browns and Saints are the extreme when it comes using large lump sums to manipulate the Cap and push money into the future but they fail to mention the majority of the NFL does these things to a lesser more manageable degree.

The Bengals on the other hand are also an extreme in the opposite way which is equally as bad. They rarely manipulate the cap and barely use restructuring. 

(03-23-2025, 01:26 PM)Synric Wrote: People are just pointing out the extremes. The Browns and Saints are the extreme when it comes using large lump sums to manipulate the Cap and push money into the future but they fail to mention the majority of the NFL does these things to a lesser more manager degree.

The Bengals on the other hand are also an extreme in the opposite way which is equally as bad. They rarely manipulate the cap and barely use restructuring. 

I know. I just want the Bengals to be in the average as I'm sure alot of people do. I don't want to be the Browns but just pointing out that even in such a catastrophic situation they still may not be hurt all that bad.

(03-23-2025, 01:26 PM)Synric Wrote: People are just pointing out the extremes. The Browns and Saints are the extreme when it comes using large lump sums to manipulate the Cap and push money into the future but they fail to mention the majority of the NFL does these things to a lesser more manageable degree.

The Bengals on the other hand are also an extreme in the opposite way which is equally as bad. They rarely manipulate the cap and barely use restructuring. 

Speaking of "being the Browns" with extreme examples... I wonder if the folks preaching for not having any dead cap space and not manipulating the cap to have more space to win with now are the new "the Bengals shouldn't sign any FAs because look at Washington and Cleveland, get those comp picks model model" crowd?

(Having apparently learned nothing from the Bengals FINALLY participating in FA for a couple years and that "magically" coinciding with breaking a 30+ year playoff win drought and going to the SB.)