(03-26-2025, 02:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I might be in the minority, but I wouldn't be opposed to contracts being forced to stick to AAV for cap hits and removing things like Void Years.
It would help keep things simpler and allow more parity across the league because teams like the Chiefs, Eagles, and Steelers couldn't manipulate the heck out of the cap like they do today.

I'm sure though doing that would be a lose-lose for both the teams and players themselves.

I would also be fine if they stripped most of the cap manipulation abilities away and made teams play it more straight. I don't think I would tie it to AAV though... but I wouldn't hate getting rid of void years, post-June-1 cuts, and then do something like tying restructuring base salary as a signing bonus to requiring adding at least 1 more fully guaranteed year worth no less than the franchise tag in base salary to do so so you can't just float future cap hits to un-guaranteed years.

Until they do that, though (aka almost certainly never), the Bengals need to learn how to play the cap game if they want to be real contenders for any stretch of time more than just a lucky blue moon year here or there.

(03-26-2025, 03:24 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I have been beating the TE drum. I think Drew Sample is our poorest starter at any position. Evan worsr than G (Volson/Ford), WR3 (Yoshi), DE2 (Ossai), S (Soine & Battle), and PK (McPherson). 

While we have two viable starters at DT in Hill & Slaton. Which makes the DT a rotational piece. Now, I'd love for that DT to be a stud va run & pass & make BJ or slaton a reserve. And I do think Nolen, Grant, or Harmon could do it. 

But by the same token, BJ/Slaton are better at their jobs than Sample is at his. Having Gesicki as a WR4/TE2 kind of mitigates our shortcomings at TE1 & WR3, though..

If my chiice is Warren or Nolen, I'd take Warren. 

I agree, Warren would just open up the Offense so much and he can play both TE in the passing game and H-back in both the running and
passing game. Plus, who knows if Nolen's character problems rear their head as a rookie like Burton's did? We can get a DL in the 2nd round
to rush the passer or a Guard depending on BPA.

(03-25-2025, 11:15 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This is what I'm thinking recently. If Campbell has shoulder issues (especially both shoulders), Emmanwori makes sense. BTW, it is disgusting that so many LBs are diagnosed with Labrum tears at the combine. The Cortisone shot culture in College Football is criminal. 

Nonetheless, unless a Will Johnson falls to us, it may be Emmanwori. I don't see another safety worthy of picking in round 1. But we can get a second round CB or S. 

However; after Campbell, I don't see another three down LB worthy of a first or even a second rounder. 

So the choice I do keep coming back to is Campbell.   

I would trade back and draft Jihad Campbell if that is who we want, he should fall with the shoulder injuries. Starks is another 
possibility but I like Emmanwori's elite size, speed and overall talent more than Starks. In the end I would rather take the dude 
that isn't coming off of injury.

I see the needs as virtually the same as before FA minus the possible holes created by a Mike G or Tee departure. There's only one real pass rush threat on the d-line, and he may or may not be threatening retirement. The guards are all high end backups and not much more. There are 2 linebackers If Pratt winds up leaving, 3 if he stays. I'd say that's a need in Golden's defense. Safety has been a sinkhole on this team for two years and none of the solutions have been effective.

This equates to a BPA situation, which is good and bad. Bad because we have some badly lacking positions groups. Good because we don't have to pull any Billy Price moves if one guy we like happens to be gone at 17. There are likely to be several prospects that can help.

I'd throw corner in the mix, but I think the in-house guys should get a chance. Many of them have shown flashes of competence at the NFL level. These are the guys that Al was hired to bring along IMO.

With Campbell injured, I wouldn't take a linebacker other than Walker, who I believe will be gone. I think they can get a starting guard in 2 if need be.

I'm leaning hard toward safety or edge here. People were talking about Starks being a plug and play star before the combine. Now he's kind of adrift. I don't buy it. I'd pull the trigger and let him man center field with Battle. Cut Stone or let him be a 3rd as he was with the Ravens. Might even be able to trade back for him.

(03-26-2025, 04:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I would also be fine if they stripped most of the cap manipulation abilities away and made teams play it more straight. I don't think I would tie it to AAV though... but I wouldn't hate getting rid of void years, post-June-1 cuts, and then do something like tying restructuring base salary as a signing bonus to requiring adding at least 1 more fully guaranteed year worth no less than the franchise tag in base salary to do so so you can't just float future cap hits to un-guaranteed years.

Until they do that, though (aka almost certainly never), the Bengals need to learn how to play the cap game if they want to be real contenders for any stretch of time more than just a lucky blue moon year here or there.

The player's union would never go for it, as void years is a big way teams squeeze more guaranteed money into their contracts.. 

More likely, the league and union could agree to do away with the escrow rule, as that was put in place when a number of the teams weren't stable financially and losing money.  That would enable the cash poor teams to manipulate the cap to the same extent as the ones with more liquid cash on hand.  

(03-26-2025, 02:31 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: This is about team needs after free agency.  The draft is a paper of that, no?

Yes my fault. I misread your statement. (I actually thought I had commented this in the  Happy Tampering Day thread that has turned into a draft thread).

(03-26-2025, 04:16 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Why would anyone want the NFL to turn into something like MLB?  Fully guaranteed contracts are a bad idea.  Look at Cleveland with Deshaun Watson.  Does anyone really want that for the entire NFL?  It's not good for the team.  Its not good for their fans.  It's not good for the NFL as a whole.  If players cant guarantee their same level of production why should their contracts be guaranteed.  In my job if I start sucking at what I do, I get let go.  

Being able to cut guys allows that extra money to go toward other guys that are playing better.  What if everyone in the NFL were on guaranteed contracts right now and the salary cap stays flat?  How would you pay all the rookies coming off their contracts?  and other players coming off their current contracts that deserve a raise.  You need to be able to cut players and give that money to other players that deserve a raise instead of those that are under-performing.

...and void years are bad too.  You are borrowing money from future years to pay current players.  Its like going to a check cashing place to borrow money on your future checks to pay a current debt.  Next month when you have to pay bills, you have less money to cover your expenses.

This is not the right way to look at void years. It's closer to interest free same as cash as there is no fee to spreading the money out over several years. In reality it's a way to increase the cap. The Bengals just don't want to do it because with more cap space the more expectation there is to spend more money. 

(03-26-2025, 05:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: The player's union would never go for it, as void years is a big way teams squeeze more guaranteed money into their contracts.. 

More likely, the league and union could agree to do away with the escrow rule, as that was put in place when a number of the teams weren't stable financially and losing money.  That would enable the cash poor teams to manipulate the cap to the same extent as the ones with more liquid cash on hand.  

That's why I said "aka almost certainly never" as when they'd do that.

The escrow rule going away would mean the ones with more liquid cash would then just move to larger signing bonuses and down that road is eventually fully-guaranteed contracts, which does NOT benefit fans.

I just want the cap to be more of an actual hard cap like it used to be because right now with void years and the such it's acting a bit more like a soft cap... obviously not quite MLB soft cap, but even without going that far it still isn't good for league parity.

(03-26-2025, 05:37 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yes my fault. I misread your statement. (I actually thought I had commented this in the  Happy Tampering Day thread that has turned into a draft thread).

No worries.  As free agency continues to wind down and the draft approaches, a some of these threads will blur.

(03-26-2025, 05:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I would trade back and draft Jihad Campbell if that is who we want, he should fall with the shoulder injuries. Starks is another 
possibility but I like Emmanwori's elite size, speed and overall talent more than Starks. In the end I would rather take the dude 
that isn't coming off of injury.

I am all for Fulcher 2.0, with more speed.

Chase already no longer the highest paid non-QB.

Crosby signed a 3yr/$106.5m extension. Can only imagine that there's still at least 1 more record setter coming this offseason with Micah Parsons.


(EDIT: Ignore this. I need a nap.)

(03-26-2025, 06:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Chase already no longer the highest paid non-QB.

Crosby signed a 3yr/$106.5m extension. Can only imagine that there's still at least 1 more record setter coming this offseason with Micah Parsons.

I don't understand what you're saying.

Crosby's extension averages 35.5M AAV. Chase's extension averages 40.25M AAV.

(03-26-2025, 03:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, someone thought we did pretty well in FA. This guy at ESPN ranked our FA class (new, retensions, extensions) and how close we maximized as #6 of 32.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/44363563/2025-nfl-free-agency-class-rankings-teams-improved-better-worse-signings-deals

Could we have done better? Always can do better. Did we do as bad as a lot of fans have been saying? Not even close.

I am still hopeful Bengals sign a vet starting guard prior to the draft. If so, good become great very quickly in my humble opinion.

(03-26-2025, 06:52 PM)CJD Wrote: I don't understand what you're saying.

Crosby's extension averages 35.5M AAV. Chase's extension averages 40.25M AAV.

That makes two of us. I obviously shouldn't be mathing in public while tired. Lol

(03-26-2025, 03:04 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, someone thought we did pretty well in FA. This guy at ESPN ranked our FA class (new, retensions, extensions) and how close we maximized as #6 of 32.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/44363563/2025-nfl-free-agency-class-rankings-teams-improved-better-worse-signings-deals

Sometimes that "improvement" comes in the form of not allowing players to walk that might have in past iterations of the team.

NFL.com's Lance Zeirlein ranks the position groups for the draft:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2025-nfl-draft-strongest-position-group-weakest

1) Edge, 2)RB, 3) DT, 4) TE, 5) OT, 6) WR, T7) CB & IOL, 9) LB, 10) QB, 11) S.

(03-26-2025, 06:19 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I am all for Fulcher 2.0, with more speed.

Ah, I like it. Fulcher the Vulcher.

(03-26-2025, 05:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's why I said "aka almost certainly never" as when they'd do that.

The escrow rule going away would mean the ones with more liquid cash would then just move to larger signing bonuses and down that road is eventually fully-guaranteed contracts, which does NOT benefit fans.

I just want the cap to be more of an actual hard cap like it used to be because right now with void years and the such it's acting a bit more like a soft cap... obviously not quite MLB soft cap, but even without going that far it still isn't good for league parity.

It’s like a home builder. When the home building business is good, you can take future home money to pay for current home. At some point the homes stop coming. It always catches up with you.

The saints are still paying for it.
The rams somehow figured it out.
The niners are going through it.
The cowboys are headed into it.

I'd list our needs as the following, and I limit myself to positions I think are plausible at #17 or with a trade back. 

1) Starting G (1, maybe 2)
FA starters: Hernandez (RG), Scherff (RG), Risner (RG)
FA borderline starters: Colon (RG), Pryor (RG)
Draft: Clear top 2: Booker (RG) Jackson (LG/LT)
Draft conversions (C>G): Zabel (late 1st)
Draft Conversions (OT>G): Campbell & Membou (Top 15), Conerly (2nd), Ersery (2/3), Grant (2-4).
More later:

2) Edge rusher/DE2
FA starters: None
FA rotational: Smith
Draft: LB/Edge: Walker (top 15), J. Campbell (1st)
Draft: OLB/Edge: Green, Pearce, Ezeiruaku, M
 Williams (pass) (all mid/late 1st)
Draft: True DE: Stewart (1st, I'd pass) 
Many more later on:

3) DT
FA starters: Campbell 
Draft: Nolen, Grant, Harmon (all mid/late 1st) 

4) TE1 (block & catch) 
FA: None 
Draft: Warren, maybe Loveland (both Rd1) 
Later: Ferguson (3/4), Evans (4/5), Lachey (6/7)

5) Safety upgrades, Starter or depth
FA starter: Blackmon 
FA borderline: Simmons 
Draft Rd1: Emmanwori (SS/FS), Starks (FS) 
Draft Rd 2: Watts (FS) 
Rd3: Mukuba (FS), Winston (SS, split)
Rd4/5 depth: Bowman, Sanker, Reid

6) CB1 or depth: 
FA: Gilmore, Hilton
Draft Rd1: Johnson, Barron 
Rd2: Revel, Hairston, Morrison, Amos, Thomas, Porter
Rd3+: depth

I think QB, RB, WR, an OT who isn't being converted to guard, and a pure off ball LB are off the table at #17. Though Jeanty MIGHT make me rethink RB if some additions to the trenches have already been made in FA.

(03-26-2025, 11:00 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Trey was quite a bit underpaid, compared to his production. I can't speak for last year but this year he deserved a pretty decent pay raise. 

How many other WRs are yelling for new contracts, after recently sigining, because of the JJ and Chase deals of the last 2 years? Any?

Yeah, and I'm not hacking on Trey personally, just using him as an example. (And no doubt Trey is now underpaid for his production) We see this all the time with other players as well. As soon as a player at their position starts making a lot more money than they do, they want to re-negotiate in the middle of their deal.