(04-16-2025, 02:14 PM)Stewy Wrote: To have plenty of beer and pizza on hand for when it starts, so I won't miss anything.

But why in the world would you want to know that?

You gonna wait until 8 PM to eat dinner?

On a serious note, I hate that the draft starts so late for Rd 1.

They sit here and want to claim it's so the west coasters can get off work and not miss anything, but what about the east coasters who have teams picking 20+ who aren't drafting until after 10 PM?

Most folks I know aren't staying up past 10 PM, let alone beyond 11 PM. They gotta get up before 7 AM for work/school the next day.

(04-16-2025, 12:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: How are impact DL and pass rush different?

I'm talking about a guy that can make an impact in both run and pass defense but DJ Reader is an example of an impact DL that wasn't a pass rusher. Reader allowed the Bengals to play some ligher box defenses on early downs. 

(04-16-2025, 12:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Was Jackson THAT much of a reach?

I went back to look at the consensus big board and other prospect rankings from last year.
He was listed as 150, but his peak was 71.
IF he really would have made it to 149, he could have been selected in the 5th round, but I know many sites had him considered most often as a 4th rounder.
It's possible Bengals had him as a 4th rounder but figured hey, we got this comp pick, let's just get our guy half a round early than risk him not making it to 115. 
Or possibly they actually had him in or close to Top 100. Wouldn't be the most surprising thing if his peak projection at one point was 71, which would have been mid-3rd rounder.

I'm not seeing Jackson to be a reach of the caliber of say Drew Sample, who most had pegged as 5th rounder but got taken in Rd 2.

While a round even half a round might not seem like much of a reach... it's the reach for a day 3 prospect into the top 100 because the team forced themselves into that type of player through poor team building. 

I was a McKinnley Jackson guy just like I'm a Dylan Fairchild fan but I don't want the Bengals reach half a round for Fairchild at #81 because they didn't get a guy in at #17 or #49. 


The Bengals aren't really in the best position to take BPA like they should be.

(04-16-2025, 01:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But most 2-down NTs typically have lower RAS.
DJ Reader, for example, had a 2.98 RAS.

Would people think Reader should have been a 5th rounder looking back?

While TJ Slaton, the new Bengals NT, had a 7.96 cumulative RAS, his agility drills were not good (2.34 RAS for shuttle, 3.20 RAS for 3-cone).
Slaton also went in 5th round.

It's possible Bengals looked up typical athleticism for NTs and figured it's not as big of a deal, and they liked his tape, and as such could have had him projected closer to Top 100.

I guess the point I'm making is Bengals wanted who they believed would be a good NT, they had a 3rd comp pick as "extra" to use, and didn't want to risk waiting until 115 (or 149) to get a NT. We won't really know where they had Jackson slotted, but if it really was a 4th rounder, I don't see it being crazy terrible if they took him half a round early.
Most NTs get undervalued anyway on draft day, and they fall to 5th round. Maybe Jackson would have done the same, but I wouldn't have risked waiting to 149 to get him. I would have pulled the trigger at 115 if he was still there.

Reader doesn't have a lot to do with it.  He was signed as a FA.  It was known going in that he could start in the NFL and play at a high level.

A high RAS is not a guarantee that a player will pan out.  A low RAS is not a guarantee that they won't.  But players with a higher RAS have better odds of panning out, and conversely, players with a lower RAS have worse odds of panning out.  Players will slide because of poor RAS, because their odds of success are less, just as they will due to injury or character concerns.  

I have played around with doing mock drafts for months now. I have learned a lot. The team drafting is pidgeoon holed into draft position. I have had many cases where I had to look to 20 to 30 picks later because the guy I wanted would likely be gone when I made my next pick.

In the end, it looks like a big reach, but is it really. If my guy has a prospect rating (all teams rate and ake their own boards, my guess from 1 to 300).

Bengals picks are 17, 49, 81, 119, 153 and 193

If Bengals want Donavan Jackson and he is gone on their board by pick 49, is it a reach to take him at 17 barring trade back which is hard to find a trade partner. The same for any guythey want, maybe it is Nolan and he is ranked 32, but again gone when we pick at 17.

That is what I learned, you can't just look at the prospects rankings and draft based on it looking like a great pick because someone ranked them higher, you have to navaigate the board to get the best pick for our team.

As for my priorities assuming we keep Trey (think we will)

1. Best game changing DT to disrupt the pocket so Harmon, Nolan or possibly Grant woud work for me. I would love Graham, but he will be long gone.
2. Best Guard or OT capable of playing guard. Possible at #49 are Donavon Jackson (likely gone), Emory Jones, Wyatt Millum, Jonah Savaiinaea or Connelly if available
3. Best LB, safety or DE available
4. Best LB, safety or DE available (minus position taken in round 3)
5. Best LB, safety or DE available (minus position taken in round 3 and round 4
6. Best Running back avaiable or best OL - Class is loaded with running backs and we have 2 as of now..There are starting RBs that will be available in round 6

MY hope is we do the near impossible and are able to trade back and get a couple of extra picks in the 60 to 80 range.

(04-16-2025, 02:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You gonna wait until 8 PM to eat dinner?

On a serious note, I hate that the draft starts so late for Rd 1.

They sit here and want to claim it's so the west coasters can get off work and not miss anything, but what about the east coasters who have teams picking 20+ who aren't drafting until after 10 PM?

Most folks I know aren't staying up past 10 PM, let alone beyond 11 PM. They gotta get up before 7 AM for work/school the next day.

You guys and gals in the east get screwed no doubt about it.

(04-16-2025, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You guys and gals in the east get screwed no doubt about it.

I'm central time now, so it's not nearly as bad for me, but it was annoying back when I lived in Ohio lol

(04-16-2025, 03:35 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm talking about a guy that can make an impact in both run and pass defense but DJ Reader is an example of an impact DL that wasn't a pass rusher. Reader allowed the Bengals to play some ligher box defenses on early downs. 



While a round even half a round might not seem like much of a reach... it's the reach for a day 3 prospect into the top 100 because the team forced themselves into that type of player through poor team building. 

I was a McKinnley Jackson guy just like I'm a Dylan Fairchild fan but I don't want the Bengals reach half a round for Fairchild at #81 because they didn't get a guy in at #17 or #49. 


The Bengals aren't really in the best position to take BPA like they should be.

So what's the plan then in the situation you either don't have a trade partner willing to agree to the terms you are willing to trade back for, or you just don't want to go through the hassle of trying to trade back?

I don't think there's a single team that doesn't go into the draft needing at least one position, at least for good depth.

I don't fault a team for reaching half a round or 1 round to get a guy they like at a position of need, but I agree it sucks the team has put themselves into a position where they may feel they need to get someone at a certain position because they didn't do enough in FA to address it properly.

(04-16-2025, 01:53 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I know you have liked Mayer since he came out of Notre Dame and that got me thinking. You know the needs we have on offense and defense. If Warren or Loveland are still on the board when we pick at 17, do you take one? 2 tight end sets would be interesting. I think I still go DL,DE,S or G with that pick but one of those TE's are tempting. Wonder what Taylor and the Bengals do in that situation?

I know you were asking Brad, but I would love Tyler Warren at 17 if he fell. I think he would be more of a sure thing for the team than some 
of these character concerns the draft has in Pearce and Green most notably. Tyler Warren is that solid all around TE we have always been missing
and with Erick All hurt for another year and maybe out for his career he would fill a giant hole in the Offense. Mike G got paid, but he is like a 
cheap WR for that money anyways. Warren would add another dimension for the Offense blocking and catching out of the backfield.

(04-16-2025, 01:53 PM)BrownAssClown Wrote: I know you have liked Mayer since he came out of Notre Dame and that got me thinking. You know the needs we have on offense and defense. If Warren or Loveland are still on the board when we pick at 17, do you take one? 2 tight end sets would be interesting. I think I still go DL,DE,S or G with that pick but one of those TE's are tempting. Wonder what Taylor and the Bengals do in that situation?

I definitely don't take one, especially if we can get Mayer just because we have so many other needs and what would we do with two pass catching tight ends and two receivers that are both good enough to be a #1 receiver?

If we could find a way to throw enough balls to make everyone happy and justify it, I might not be against the idea but have so many other needs that I wouldn't do it.

If they both or one fall, I'd open the phone lines to trade back and get extra picks (depending on how things are going and who's available).

(04-16-2025, 02:14 PM)Stewy Wrote: To have plenty of beer and pizza on hand for when it starts, so I won't miss anything.

But why in the world would you want to know that?

Haven't had a crippled cocktail in a while (two months?) but might have to have one for the first round! (Then again for my birthday on Mary 8th) 

(04-16-2025, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You guys and gals in the east get screwed no doubt about it.

Sucks but I'd rather this than having to wake up at 8 or 9 on a Sunday to catch a game.

It is a pain in the ass and then also sucks because not like I can go out after because I need to get on here and discuss the pick lol.

Like I said, I haven't been drinking, so maybe I won't.

(04-16-2025, 04:53 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I definitely don't take one, especially if we can get Mayer just because we have so many other needs and what would we do with two pass catching tight ends and two receivers that are both good enough to be a #1 receiver?

If we could find a way to throw enough balls to make everyone happy and justify it, I might not be against the idea but have so many other needs that I wouldn't do it.

If they both or one fall, I'd open the phone lines to trade back and get extra picks (depending on how things are going and who's available).
Haven't had a crippled cocktail in a while (two months?) but might have to have one for the first round! (Then again for my birthday on Mary 8th) 

Sucks but I'd rather this than having to wake up at 8 or 9 on a Sunday to catch a game.

It is a pain in the ass and then also sucks because not like I can go out after because I need to get on here and discuss the pick lol.

Like I said, I haven't been drinking, so maybe I won't.

Do not most normal adults wake up by 9 AM every day anyway?
I thought this was common, even on weekends because we're so used to waking up early for work during the weekdays.

I guess I'm different, as I'd love to be able to wake up to watch a 10 AM game. Then I could have the entire afternoon and evening to do meaningful things.

Watching a game in the middle of the afternoon pretty much destroys any productivity the entire day.

I normally do my grocery shopping Sundays, so I have to always try to get that done in the late morning then get home to watch the game. And by the time the game is over and coming down from the high/low from that, it's dinner time, then evening to do more chores around the house like laundry.

(04-16-2025, 02:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You gonna wait until 8 PM to eat dinner?

On a serious note, I hate that the draft starts so late for Rd 1.

They sit here and want to claim it's so the west coasters can get off work and not miss anything, but what about the east coasters who have teams picking 20+ who aren't drafting until after 10 PM?

Most folks I know aren't staying up past 10 PM, let alone beyond 11 PM. They gotta get up before 7 AM for work/school the next day.

7pm for me.  Normal dinner time.  I live in Texas.

2 main priorities for me:

1. 3rd down defense
2. interior O-line,

You can say that 3rd down also implies our pass rush/pass coverage. I'm ok with ANY pick that addresses those 2 things. We defniitely need a guy that can provide pressure up the middle as well as someone that can pressure off the edge.

IOL is self explanatory. We have to come out of the draft (or remaining free agency) with a starting caliber OG,

(04-16-2025, 08:47 PM)Stewy Wrote: 7pm for me.  Normal dinner time.  I live in Texas.

When I lived in the South, I got used to eating dinner later. Now that I'm back in Ohio, it's still 7pm for me as well.

However, instead of Pizza and Beer for the draft, I think that I'll be making enchaladas and having beer and shots!

(04-16-2025, 04:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm central time now, so it's not nearly as bad for me, but it was annoying back when I lived in Ohio lol

I never realized Nashville is on Central time...

Yes 10AM games are great!

(04-16-2025, 07:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Do not most normal adults wake up by 9 AM every day anyway?
I thought this was common, even on weekends because we're so used to waking up early for work during the weekdays.

I guess I'm different, as I'd love to be able to wake up to watch a 10 AM game. Then I could have the entire afternoon and evening to do meaningful things.

Watching a game in the middle of the afternoon pretty much destroys any productivity the entire day.

I normally do my grocery shopping Sundays, so I have to always try to get that done in the late morning then get home to watch the game. And by the time the game is over and coming down from the high/low from that, it's dinner time, then evening to do more chores around the house like laundry.

Yes but most young adults go out on Saturday nights and it would be rough to wake up that early on a Sunday.

Also, there's the Church thing.

(04-17-2025, 05:50 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Yes but most young adults go out on Saturday nights and it would be rough to wake up that early on a Sunday.

Also, there's the Church thing.

Many young adults are also typically getting in by 3 AM, and they usually have no problem getting just 5-6 hours sleep.
In my younger days, I had no problems getting up and watching NFL games with a hangover.

Are you referring to trying to physically go to a game though?
Because obviously if someone is on the west coast and trying to watch a 10AM NFL game, that game will be across the country, so they'll only be watching it from home or getting to a bar that may be open early enough.

Going to church is a choice (at least for adults), so that's not an excuse.

IOL > EDGE > S > LB > DT > RB > WR > CB

For me there is no greater need than protecting Joe, he goes down you're risking the season and possibly his career. So I'm using a 1st or 2nd round pick on offensive guard. maybe two picks during the draft

I like this edge class, but im not in love with it. My favorite tier 1 pass rushers are carter and green. Green is the only reasonable pick and the sexual red flags are concerning. But overall, it's a decent class

Safety I like, but don't love the class, but this team needs a dominant free safety

Linebacker is a sneaky need but Campbell and Swesinger are really the only two guys I want

This DT class is mediocre imo, everyone hypes it up, but it's a class of 2nd to 4th round guys. The thought of drafting Deone Walker makes me wanna vomit

This is a great running back class and I want one

Not the best wide receiver class, but some good scheme fit guys can be found

I love Jahdae Barron, but im not a big fan of the class

There are the high draft priorities: OG, and pass rush.
Then are are the positions that we could start the year thin and waiting for the injury shoe to drop: OT, S, RB, DT. (of course QB)
Then there are the positions that are weak overall and a good rookie could improve: CB, DE, LB, TE.
I want to exit the draft having addressed the highest and at least half of the second tier.
Lastly, please don't reach or otherwise go off road until Round 5.

(04-16-2025, 01:36 PM)Whatever Wrote: A 3.08 RAS after testing tends to negatively affect your draft stock.  

RAS does not distinguish NT and DT. A lot of the bigger NT types suffer on RAS as a result when compared to 3Ts. 

You have to compare them/him to other NTs, not DR/3Ts. 

And no, he was not much of a reach. 

To answer the OP: 

1) Immediate impact difference makers, anywhere is fine. No QB or WR or OT early, unless you are moving the OT to G. I'd prefer G (Zabel or Jackson), S (Emmanwori or Starks), or some kind of pass rush help (Harmon, Nolen, Green). 

But a higher end guy at another position would still take preference over ANY of those guys (Warren, Walker, Jeanty, Johnson, W. Campbell, Membou). J. Campbell or Lovelandor Barron is a tougher call.

2) Guard
3) Safety
4) Pass rysh from DT 
5) Pass rush from edge
-----------

My board for Rd1 would be: 

1) Carter 
2) Hunter 
3) Graham
4) W. Cambell
5) Membou
-----------
6) Walker
7) Warren
8) Johnson 
9) Jeanty
-------------
10) J. Campbell 
11) Jackson 
12) Zabel 
13) Starks 
14) Emmanwori 
15) Harmon 
16) Loveland 
17) Nolen 
18) Green
---------

If I think Loveland can block, he jumps to 10th or 11th..I forgot Green initially. 

I think the first 9 will almost certainly be gone. I'd be fine with any of the 2nd 9, plus Barron.

My priorities are to go Best Player Available and not start chasing needs. Yes, the Bengals need an IOL and safety and LB, etc. But if they plan on a rookie to protect Burrow and fill other areas of needs, they are quite likely to be disappointed come the season. Just take the sure BPA. If it doesn't match the Bengals needs this season, then make trades or sign free agents. Selecting the lesser prospect because they have a need is not the route for long-term success in the draft.