(04-18-2025, 12:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I can see the Bengals offerig to extend Trey after the draft looking something like this:

2025 - Give 8 million dollar signing bonus - 
2026 - 28 million with 16 million guaranteed
2027 - 28 million with none guaranteed

Cap hit - 2025 - No change stays at 15.8 million]
2026 - 30 million with 16 million guaranteed
2027 - 34 million and none guaranteed

In this sceanrio, if Trey keeps performing he can earm the entire contract. He gets an additional 24 million guaranteed with the extension minimum

I think this is fair as team could not extend him if they choose, then tag him for less than 28 million in 2026. If he does not sign something, he has no more guaranteed money after 2025. At 31, that is a huge risk for him. But, if he believes in himself, he can earn an addtional 64 million the next 3 years if he maxes out the contract.

I would guess Bengals would have some type of bonuses based on availability as well similar to Tee, if he misses time, he loses money.

Yeah I agree with those numbers for the most part.  As it pertains to guard, I think the key number in those two scenarios is his guaranteed money this year.  They have some money to use even with the rollover money , draft picks and PS.  The only reason not to full important needs pre draft would be I assume it's being earmarked for Trey's raise to get him signed to the extension.  Otherwise, there's no reason not to sign Risner to that cheap of a deal.  

(04-20-2025, 01:59 AM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah I agree with those numbers for the most part.  As it pertains to guard, I think the key number in those two scenarios is his guaranteed money this year.  They have some money to use even with the rollover money , draft picks and PS.  The only reason not to full important needs pre draft would be I assume it's being earmarked for Trey's raise to get him signed to the extension.  Otherwise, there's no reason not to sign Risner to that cheap of a deal.  

don't you think it is interesting that last couple years Risner is just sitting out their late in Free Agency, we are not the only team needing guards and every team has seemed to pass him over, just wondering if there is something we just don;t know

(04-18-2025, 01:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nah, he has played decent in the NFL, aside from that lol

we could sign the best guard in the league..would not make a damn bit of difference until that line plays as a cohesive unit..hopefully the changes made @OL coach will help

(04-20-2025, 09:18 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: we could sign the best guard in the league..would not make a damn bit of difference until that line plays as a cohesive unit..hopefully the changes made @OL coach will help

You really believe that after the season Cappa had? He arguably had one of the worst G seasons in NFL history.

Hard to really know what everyone in the organization is thinking and what their true vision is. Everyone here has some pretty good thoughts on things involving certain positional groups. Here's some more maybe to think about. The one name that I think doesn't ever get mentioned on here is Jaxson Kirkland. We have kept Kirkland around for a few years now and if the guy doesn't have the injury bug I think he's highly thought of. If I recall last year up until his injury he was the extra O lineman to come in. After injury it was Lee. Maybe the coaching staff is really high on these two guys. Also if Patrick plays best at center who's to say we can't slide Karras back out to guard. I'm not saying the organization is done adding o line help via draft or free agency but just some thoughts that haven't been mentioned. Also I think it's possible that you could see LB in play during the draft. Not really sure who would man that position if they decide to let Pratt go. If they can get a safety, running back, guard/tackle and line backer in the draft allowing them to release Stone, Moss, Pratt and Volson opening up enough money to sign Hendrickson to an extension and allowing a Scherff signing I would take that.

(04-20-2025, 10:39 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: You really believe that after the season Cappa had? He arguably had one of the worst G seasons in NFL history.

 I absolutely do..there are a 1001 things that we don't know about..do you really think the Bengals would purposefully want to get their 250 million star quarterback hurt..they hired a new OL coach..they will figure it out..If Reisner was a piece of the puzzle they needed they would have signed him and they still might.....But signing aging players with recognizable names is not always the answer...I watch KC quite often..Mahommes runs for his life on almost every play..Same with the quarterback of Buffalo..regardless of PFF scores......The draft is soon..hopefully we will see a DL..OL and linebacker chosen..If this team stays healthy its gonna be a very good year

(04-20-2025, 01:59 AM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah I agree with those numbers for the most part.  As it pertains to guard, I think the key number in those two scenarios is his guaranteed money this year.  They have some money to use even with the rollover money , draft picks and PS.  The only reason not to full important needs pre draft would be I assume it's being earmarked for Trey's raise to get him signed to the extension.  Otherwise, there's no reason not to sign Risner to that cheap of a deal.  

There is possibly one huge reason, the FO does not feel he is any better than the guards on our roster since it is likely not about money.

As fans we sometimes assume the FO is cheap or inciherent when they do what we think is obvious. I do think they are waiting on the draft and also am starting to think their plan is a rookie draft pick to start and one of the guys signed. The new OL coach may have found a fixable flaw with Volson, Kirkland or feel Patrick is better than Risner or Scherff.

Or maybe the guy they really want is an injured Hernandez who is rehabbing. I am hopeful they do have a plan, hopeful because they easily and affordably could have signed Risner prior to the draft, but the key is they CHOSE NOT TOO AND AGAIN LIKELY NOT ABOUT MONEY, IT IS ABOUT THE TALENT PETERS SEES IN FA.

(04-20-2025, 09:18 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: we could sign the best guard in the league..would not make a damn bit of difference until that line plays as a cohesive unit..hopefully the changes made @OL coach will help

It's going to take a little more than simply coaching 'em up on the OL. Keep in mind what they tend to struggle with the most are stunts. How many times have you seen the Bengals DL execute stunts? An OL can only be as good as what they are practicing against. It's going to take some improvement on the defensive side of the ball, being able to show some stunts for the OL to practice picking up, in order for the overall quality of play in the trenches to improve. OL/DL go hand in hand when it's the same team.

(04-21-2025, 07:38 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's going to take a little more than simply coaching 'em up on the OL. Keep in mind what they tend to struggle with the most are stunts. How many times have you seen the Bengals DL execute stunts? An OL can only be as good as what they are practicing against. It's going to take some improvement on the defensive side of the ball, being able to show some stunts for the OL to practice picking up, in order for the overall quality of play in the trenches to improve. OL/DL go hand in hand when it's the same team.

again..if this team stays healthy ..we will be in the playoffs..I like the fine tuning in this off season

(04-21-2025, 07:38 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's going to take a little more than simply coaching 'em up on the OL. Keep in mind what they tend to struggle with the most are stunts. How many times have you seen the Bengals DL execute stunts? An OL can only be as good as what they are practicing against. It's going to take some improvement on the defensive side of the ball, being able to show some stunts for the OL to practice picking up, in order for the overall quality of play in the trenches to improve. OL/DL go hand in hand when it's the same team.

Yep... Outside of Mims, who's still developing, there's a general lack of athleticism on the o line.

(04-20-2025, 11:44 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ** I do think they are waiting on the draft and also am starting to think their plan is a rookie draft pick to start and one of the guys signed. **

I hope that is not their plan: to start a rookie draft pick -- one who has not even been picked yet. I like better the idea that they feel one of the existing options, such as Kirkland, can do the job and they possibly can work in a rookie draft pick. But having as a plan to depend on an as-yet-not-picked draft pick to be the starter and protect Burrow sounds like a really bad, bad idea.

(04-21-2025, 09:42 AM)Nepa Wrote: I hope that is not their plan: to start a rookie draft pick -- one who has not even been picked yet. I like better the idea that they feel one of the existing options, such as Kirkland, can do the job and they possibly can work in a rookie draft pick. But having as a plan to depend on an as-yet-not-picked draft pick to be the starter and protect Burrow sounds like a really bad, bad idea.

I don't think the Bengals will annoint a OL pick a starter day 1. He would still need to win the job. The chiefs drafte Smith with a 6th round pick years ago, he started immediately and has progressed to a great RG.

I would hope Booker, Milum or Jackson could emerge as a day 1 starter.

(04-20-2025, 11:01 AM)falsestart Wrote: The one name that I think doesn't ever get mentioned on here is Jaxson Kirkland. We have kept Kirkland around for a few years now and if the guy doesn't have the injury bug I think he's highly thought of. If I recall last year up until his injury he was the extra O lineman to come in. After injury it was Lee. Maybe the coaching staff is really high on these two guys. 

For me personally, I don't really consider him now because he's turning 27 in July and has played a total of 3 offensive snaps in a NFL game.
People really thinking Kirkland may be such a late bloomer that he finally comes on at 27 years old and having been in the league for 2 years?


I had hopes when he entered the league he may become something, but after 2 years of basically showing nothing, the age he is, and the (lack of) talent in front of him, I have lost all hope for him.

(04-20-2025, 09:18 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: we could sign the best guard in the league..would not make a damn bit of difference until that line plays as a cohesive unit..hopefully the changes made @OL coach will help

So good players don't even matter now, I getcha...

(04-21-2025, 11:47 AM)ochocincos Wrote: For me personally, I don't really consider him now because he's turning 27 in July and has played a total of 3 offensive snaps in a NFL game.
People really thinking Kirkland may be such a late bloomer that he finally comes on at 27 years old and having been in the league for 2 years?


I had hopes when he entered the league he may become something, but after 2 years of basically showing nothing, the age he is, and the (lack of) talent in front of him, I have lost all hope for him.

Kirkland was injured in both 2023 and 2024. 

in 2024, he was lost week #5 the same week we lost Dax Hill. Hard to get a read.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/10/7/24264723/jaxson-kirkland-cincinnati-bengals-injuries

(04-21-2025, 05:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Kirkland was injured in both 2023 and 2024. 

in 2024, he was lost week #5 the same week we lost Dax Hill. Hard to get a read.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2024/10/7/24264723/jaxson-kirkland-cincinnati-bengals-injuries

Fair, but we're wanting to put faith in an UDFA who has hardly played since leaving the 2022 college season?

Dude didn't play a full season in college since his 2018 freshman year, and injuries were a big concern for him coming out of college.
He had a surgically repaired right ankle going into his 2022 college season.

I'm just sayin, it's a lot to hope and expect a guy who hasn't been fully healthy since 2018 to be a reliable, healthy, consistent guy.

If Kirkland competes and kicks out Volson, so be it, but I still won't have confidence in whatever starting Guard if it's one of Patrick, Ford, Kirkland, or Volson. Not until I can see 2+ months worth of good, consistent performance.

(04-21-2025, 06:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fair, but we're wanting to put faith in an UDFA who has hardly played since leaving the 2022 college season?

Dude didn't play a full season in college since his 2018 freshman year, and injuries were a big concern for him coming out of college.
He had a surgically repaired right ankle going into his 2022 college season.

I'm just sayin, it's a lot to hope and expect a guy who hasn't been fully healthy since 2018 to be a reliable, healthy, consistent guy.

If Kirkland competes and kicks out Volson, so be it, but I still won't have confidence in whatever starting Guard if it's one of Patrick, Ford, Kirkland, or Volson. Not until I can see 2+ months worth of good, consistent performance.

I agree, Kirkland hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, let alone get on the field for any significant amount to time. Honestly, I look for him to be replace with a new Practice Squad body this year.

(04-21-2025, 07:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree, Kirkland hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, let alone get on the field for any significant amount to time. Honestly, I look for him to be replace with a new Practice Squad body this year.

Well, and more on this as I went back and looked...

He was injured in 2023, but he was on the PS for 10 games before he got shut down with a wrist injury.
He then played in 2 games last season, suffering a torn bicep in the first BAL loss in early Oct.


It's not like he keeps reinjuring the same part, but there always seems to be something new with him.

I remember looking into him back actually for the 2022 draft, but he chose to return to college.
My thought at the time was the injuries would be behind him after fully recovering from the ankle surgery, but it's been one new injury after another with him.

Kirkland is only under contract for this year, same with Volson and Patrick.
Heck, if you add Karras to that, the Bengals have just 2 IOL under contract for 2026 - Ford and Lee.

(04-21-2025, 06:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fair, but we're wanting to put faith in an UDFA who has hardly played since leaving the 2022 college season?

Dude didn't play a full season in college since his 2018 freshman year, and injuries were a big concern for him coming out of college.
He had a surgically repaired right ankle going into his 2022 college season.

I'm just sayin, it's a lot to hope and expect a guy who hasn't been fully healthy since 2018 to be a reliable, healthy, consistent guy.

If Kirkland competes and kicks out Volson, so be it, but I still won't have confidence in whatever starting Guard if it's one of Patrick, Ford, Kirkland, or Volson. Not until I can see 2+ months worth of good, consistent performance.

He is a TC body right now, he has to come beat any OG in camp to start. I am not optimistic he can, but stranger things have happened. As I say, never say never as never is finite and almost at some point proven wrong, all it takes is one major surprise and never turns into, yep, I was an idiot for using that word.

Same goes for always.

(04-21-2025, 08:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well, and more on this as I went back and looked...

He was injured in 2023, but he was on the PS for 10 games before he got shut down with a wrist injury.
He then played in 2 games last season, suffering a torn bicep in the first BAL loss in early Oct.


It's not like he keeps reinjuring the same part, but there always seems to be something new with him.

I remember looking into him back actually for the 2022 draft, but he chose to return to college.
My thought at the time was the injuries would be behind him after fully recovering from the ankle surgery, but it's been one new injury after another with him.

Kirkland is only under contract for this year, same with Volson and Patrick.
Heck, if you add Karras to that, the Bengals have just 2 IOL under contract for 2026 - Ford and Lee.

I think that is quite telling of what the Bengals intend to do in this draft. Maybe not the marquis guys (which they definitely need at least ONE of), but I would see them selecting two interior OL players in this draft. They may maximize and take a College Tackle and put him at Guard (many of them come up in College that way, anyway) to get the most mileage from the picks. I would also expect a bunch of UDFA OL to be brought in this year to find any missed talent.