(Yesterday, 08:00 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: His straight-line strength is unreal. He's capable of moving 300+ linemen like their kickers.

He needs to be translate that speed and power laterally too though...something he was inconsistent with. You see him blow by guys a lot off the snap, but then get taken away from the play or miss the play altogether when pursuing. Recognition and finishing are the 2 biggest areas he needs to work on IMO. The speed and power are great tools, but only if they can be controlled. Right now, he's sort of like a bull in the China shop...just breaking shit and causing chaos. If the staff can refine that and get him to be a little more focused and patient, I think he could wind up being a pretty damn good one.

All true Holic, great post as usual, you know your shit brother. Stewart needs to control that freaky stuff he has. Like you say, recognizing what the
QB or RB are going to do and play smart. No need to outrun the play, he has them right where he wants them if he can just get there and wrap up.

OL don't know what they get ahold of when playing against him you can tell. He is something else, beats about everybody but Will Campbell in all 
the film I watched and Will is a Clamp.

The Cincinnati Bengals are better than they were 72 hours ago and folks are jumping off the ledge.

Pat Kirwan has stated that an average of 20 rookies start in the NFL each year, not including injury replacements. I think we have at least 2 that make the starting 22 and as many as 4.

For all you "can't judge the draft for 3 years" crowd. Do me a favor. Take Burrow and Chase out (top 5 picks) and grade these drafts, 3+ years later. 

Then come back and tell me how this draft is going to be markedly different. 




Let me know how many good...let alone pro bowl or all pro...starting players you see here. Then go ahead and tell him how many truly good...pro bowl or all pro...you see. 

I'm looking at...
1 all pro level player, who is no longer on the team.
1 potential game changer in Tee.
6 average starters including, 1 now retired, 1 probably gone this year and 1 playing on another team.

You know what i see from round 4 and below? Absolutely nothing. 

Oh, and there's a total of 55 names there. 

55

(Yesterday, 08:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: For all you "can't judge the draft for 3 years" crowd. Do me a favor. Take Burrow and Chase out (top 5 picks) and grade these drafts, 3+ years later. 

Then come back and tell me how this draft is going to be markedly different. 




Let me know how many good...let alone pro bowl or all pro...starting players you see here. Then go ahead and tell him how many truly good...pro bowl or all pro...you see. 

I'm looking at...
1 all pro level player, who is no longer on the team.
1 potential game changer in Tee.
6 average starters including, 1 now retired, 1 probably gone this year and 1 playing on another team.

You know what i see from round 4 and below? Absolutely nothing. 

Oh, and there's a total of 55 names there. 

55

After removing our 2 best player as required:
Dax Hill
CTB
McPherson
Higgins
Wilson
Sample
Pratt
Bates 
Hubbard
Mixon
Lawson
Elliott

(Yesterday, 08:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Too bad his college coaches couldn't do something as simple as teaching him to keep his head up and slow down a little bit. 

He was a punk kid. You don't think he can grow up a little bit and learn to slow down?

Like Holic said, Stewart was like a bull in a china shop. These type of players don't come into the NFL perfect, none of them do.

Reggie White didn't, Lawrence Taylor didn't, Myles Garrett didn't.

Shemar Stewart has all the tools you cannot teach and is young so he can learn. We have new coaches, let's give them a chance.

(Yesterday, 08:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: For all you "can't judge the draft for 3 years" crowd. Do me a favor. Take Burrow and Chase out (top 5 picks) and grade these drafts, 3+ years later. 

Then come back and tell me how this draft is going to be markedly different. 




Let me know how many good...let alone pro bowl or all pro...starting players you see here. Then go ahead and tell him how many truly good...pro bowl or all pro...you see. 

I'm looking at...
1 all pro level player, who is no longer on the team.
1 potential game changer in Tee.
6 average starters including, 1 now retired, 1 probably gone this year and 1 playing on another team.

You know what i see from round 4 and below? Absolutely nothing. 

Oh, and there's a total of 55 names there. 

55

yucky. Theres a reason why people are not sold on duke tobin. Well, at least well adjusted people arent sold on tobin

(Yesterday, 08:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: After removing our 2 best player requirement:
Dax Hill
CTB
McPherson
Higgins
Wilson
Sample
Pratt
Bates 
Hubbard
Mixon
Lawson
Elliott

What are you saying about these players? Average, above average, good, really good?

I included Dax, CTB, Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard and Mixon as average NFL players. 
Bates, all pro level...gone.
Hubbard, retired.
Pratt, likely gone.
Mixon, Lawson, Elliott...gone. 

Purely draft-wise, Higgins and Bates are the only perennial pro bowl level players. 
Wilson could be considered above average, verging on pro bowl level.

I...would not even consider putting Sample on this list.

(Yesterday, 09:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What are you saying about these players? Average, above average, good, really good?

I included Dax, CTB, Wilson, Pratt, Hubbard and Mixon as average NFL players. 
Bates, all pro level...gone.
Hubbard, retired.
Pratt, likely gone.
Mixon, Lawson, Elliott...gone. 

Purely draft-wise, Higgins and Bates are the only perennial pro bowl level players. 
Wilson could be considered above average, verging on pro bowl level.

I...would not even consider putting Sample on this list.

I bolded Good in your OP

We don't get credit for our draft pick if they are/were good but go elsewhere?  

Sample's been a good pro. He's just not lived up to his 2nd RD pick

(Yesterday, 08:47 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: For all you "can't judge the draft for 3 years" crowd. Do me a favor. Take Burrow and Chase out (top 5 picks) and grade these drafts, 3+ years later. 

Then come back and tell me how this draft is going to be markedly different. 




Let me know how many good...let alone pro bowl or all pro...starting players you see here. Then go ahead and tell him how many truly good...pro bowl or all pro...you see. 

I'm looking at...
1 all pro level player, who is no longer on the team.
1 potential game changer in Tee.
6 average starters including, 1 now retired, 1 probably gone this year and 1 playing on another team.

You know what i see from round 4 and below? Absolutely nothing. 

Oh, and there's a total of 55 names there. 

55

Why play your game? Why should we remove our only 2 top 5 draft picks? Thats is just dumb.

(Yesterday, 08:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He was a punk kid. You don't think he can grow up a little bit and learn to slow down?

Like Holic said, Stewart was like a bull in a china shop. These type of players don't come into the NFL perfect, none of them do.

Reggie White didn't, Lawrence Taylor didn't, Myles Garrett didn't.

Shemar Stewart has all the tools you cannot teach and is young so he can learn. We have new coaches, let's give them a chance.

The thing i like about this draft is the athleticism and speed. This defense was missing that the last couple years. It makes up for a lot of mistakes. 

That said, i'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt until i see them producing on the field. I'm not getting all giddy about their 'potential'. 

I don't discount the possibility of the D being better, by a decent margin even, simply because of the coaching change and the added speed. 

Still...i ain't going there till i see it on the field. Talk and potential is as useless to me as a hole in the head. 

(Yesterday, 09:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why play your game? Why should we remove our only 2 top 4 draft picks? Thats is just dumb.

those are terrible drafts lmao keep deflecting hobson

(Yesterday, 09:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why play your game? Why should we remove our only 2 top 4 draft picks? Thats is just dumb.

We've got to remove them because they were early in the first round. but we definitely want to include Ross

(Yesterday, 09:01 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: yucky. Theres a reason why people are not sold on duke tobin. Well, at least well adjusted people arent sold on tobin

Lot of grade A piles of shit on that list, iddinit?

(Yesterday, 09:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I bolded Good in your OP

We don't get credit for our draft pick if they are/were good but go elsewhere?  

Sample's been a good pro. He's just not lived up to his 2nd RD pick

Oh, they get credit for drafting good players regardless. It's the same front office that's not retaining talent, but that's a different argument.

It's still a very small number of "good" starting/high snap count players considering the number of chances they've had. Let along a smaller number of truly great players other than pick #1 and #5 in '20 and '21.

PS - i'm looking for good players, i,e., at least somewhat difference makers, not "good pros". Sample provides nothing in the passing game and he's marginal in run blocking/decent in passpro.

(Yesterday, 09:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why play your game? Why should we remove our only 2 top 5 draft picks? Thats is just dumb.

It's not a game, champ.

If you don't wanna play, GTFO.

I'm removing the #1 and #5 picks because they are the literal definition of "no brainer". 

I find it interesting that folks are ready to call Dax an average or good player in the NFL based off just 4 games where he played decent (but still missed 4 tackles).

He's a 1st round pick who spent two years at a position, couldn't hack it, moved to a different position and played well for 4 games before tearing his ACL. They are not sure they even want to pick up his 5th year option.

While I didn't love their options in that draft, I thought he'd be the best choice available, so I didn't hate the pick or anything so I am not being biased when I say he's been a bust. 1st round pick going into his 4th year in the NFL and we're hoping he finally has a position he can be good at.

(Yesterday, 09:14 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The thing i like about this draft is the athleticism and speed. This defense was missing that the last couple years. It makes up for a lot of mistakes. 

That said, i'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt until i see them producing on the field. I'm not getting all giddy about their 'potential'. 

I don't discount the possibility of the D being better, by a decent margin even, simply because of the coaching change and the added speed. 

Still...i ain't going there till i see it on the field. Talk and potential is as useless to me as a hole in the head. 

Cool, I am not going to lie and say it doesn't hurt being a fan over all these years and being disappointed by the shit show that goes on at times.

But it is supposed to be entertainment after all and I cannot do anything about it but try and stay positive and have a good time.

Life is too damn hard to take all this stuff too seriously. I like the players we added and I am excited to see what our new coaches can do with them.

(Yesterday, 09:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We've got to remove them because they were early in the first round. but we definitely want to include Ross

Read that again and then ask yourself, "am i being honest or just taking the piss?".

I need to know so i know how to respond going forward and how seriously i should take you. 

(Yesterday, 09:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's not a game, champ.

If you don't wanna play, GTFO.

I'm removing the #1 and #5 picks because they are the literal definition of "no brainer". 

Nah. Taking 2/3 of the greatest college offense of all time definitely required some serious due diligence from all 4 of our scouts!

(Yesterday, 09:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool, I am not going to lie and say it doesn't hurt being a fan over all these years and being disappointed by the shit show that goes on at times.

But it is supposed to be entertainment after all and I cannot do anything about it but try and stay positive and have a good time.

Life is too damn hard to take all this stuff too seriously. I like the players we added and I am excited to see what our new coaches can do with them.

That's one flavor and it's cool. 

My flavor is to tell them what jackasses and total **** ups they are...while happily going thru life enjoying many other things. 

The disconnect is people thinking that if i complain or criticize, i must be unhappy in life or take things too seriously. And no disrespect but i use the word "disconnect" generally, when i really mean, stupid backwards ass ignorant assumption, because i have many things in life that i enjoy and my thoughts on a football team don't affect those things in any way.