(01-13-2016, 05:15 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Under Marvin Lewis we were and still are a good team - but we will never be a great team.

for this reason, I think we lost the WRONG coaches.

(01-13-2016, 04:44 PM)McC Wrote: I don't think Hue is all that great.  And, if you get right down to it, VJ was the Assistant DB coach.  We didn't fall apart when Zim left or when Gruden left.

A must have 2 point conversion in a playoff game with the lead and 2:24 left and Green, Sanu and Jones aren't on the field.  I don't think Hue is all that great either.

Our free agency will be pretty easy. Re-sign Illoka, Jones, Jones and Nelson. Sign Sanu and Hall at the right prices.

Continue playing with virtually the same team.

The Bengals have plenty of cap space and have always been good at re-signing their own.

As for the coaches, Hue was an outstanding OC, but he did have a penchant for getting too cute at the wrong times. A lot of his cute stuff worked great, but there were other plays, like that whole 3 down linemen, then Andrew Whitworth and a couple receivers on one side and a couple on the other. That nonsense was just annoying by the end of the year.

The good news is I think Dalton really took over that offense near the end. At least from the line of scrimmage. He had complete control and could audible at any time, and it really showed how good he is at that. That'll make our next OC's job so much easier.

As for Vance. I dunno. He was never more than a secondary coach for us. We heard rumblings that he was a good coach, but who knows what he would actually do? We already have an outstanding defensive coordinator. And his name has died down in head coaching talks, primarily because the main team that was interested just hired Hue.

So there was nothing that we could give Vance. He knew it after he saw the defense flourish in its second year under Pauly. We weren't going to jump him up to head coach from assistant secondary coach. That just wasn't happening.

The window is so far from closed. We'll get back to the playoffs next year and this time, it will be with our starting QB.

(01-13-2016, 09:53 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I don't think you can say that about Guenther.

Zimmer vs Guenther is an interesting debate.


Zimmer's defenses all had better yardage numbers than Guenther, but in terms of points, Guenther's defense won out by 1.7 points over Zimmer's best defensive year, 2013, where his defense allowed 19.1 points per game; a difference of about half a field goal per game.

Not an all around upgrade, but the defense has not struggled since he left.

(01-14-2016, 01:58 AM)RASCAL Wrote: for this reason, I think we lost the WRONG coaches.

Here's the thing: I hear or read people complaining about rather having Hue, Zimmer, or even (shudder) Gruden as Head Coach. Has anyone ever thought that they wouldn't have taken the Bengals job if it meant firing Marvin to give it to them? Marvin brought them in, worked closely with them, and by all accounts, all of them have a close relationship with him. I'm not sure any of them would have been okay with a plan to fire their close friend so they could have his job. Sometimes we forget that these are human beings not chess pieces.

(01-13-2016, 05:57 PM)Benton Wrote: we lost Chad and the end was nigh. We lost Carson and the end was nigh. We lost gruden and the end was nigh. We lost zimmer and the end was night. We took Andy Dalton and the end was nigh. We didn't fire Marvin and the end was nigh.

Chad? No.
Palmer? No.
Gruden? No.
Zimmer? Abso-freakin'-lutely!
Dalton? He changed a lot of minds.
Marvin? It's nigh until he is gone.

(01-14-2016, 01:58 AM)RASCAL Wrote: for this reason, I think we lost the WRONG coaches.

All except for Gruden, I agree.

(01-13-2016, 11:02 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: I'm thinking about the unraveling of Burfict.  He has lost his head since Zimmer left.  I think Guenther is too lenient.

It's like with Mike Tyson when Cus D'Amato died.

(01-13-2016, 09:51 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Kind of but Burfict's self control has deteriorated since Zimmer left.  Burfict made the pro bowl when Zimmer was here.

I think a lot of this has to do with him getting paid as well.  He was on his best behavior until he got the contract and now has gone back to being himself.

Why would Koetter come here to serve as OC/HCIW?

He's about to be given the reigns in Tampa. Word is they're already informing people he's the new guy.

Koetter was never realistic.

Do hope they bypass the obvious (Zampeze) for another outsider like Jay G.

(01-13-2016, 10:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Andy isn't going to "unlearn" anything that he has gained from any of the coaches in his lifetime...

Cleveland fans are only setting themselves up for their next disappointment.  Hue will only do as well as their ownership allows..  check their last HC's...........

Dalton will be on his 3rd OC in 6 years. Not sure that's ideal for any young qb based off of what you see happen to young qb's around the league. Dalton is smart and will adapt (in time), but I can't say it's ideal.

(01-14-2016, 06:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton will be on his 3rd OC in 6 years. Not sure that's ideal for any young qb based off of what you see happen to young qb's around the league. Dalton is smart and will adapt (in time), but I can't say it's ideal.

Each guy has taken him farther in his development.  Maybe the next guy continues it.

Why all the worry, we'll find a new OC and in two years when he is taken by someone else we can get Hue Jackson back as the Browns will fire him by that time.

Lance McAlister has been arguing this on his radio show tonight, that he believes the Bengals made a huge mistake by letting Hue go.  He likens to this when some 40 years ago they chose Bill "Tiger" Johnson over Bill Walsh for the HC job, and we all know how that played out.  He thinks it was the safe move rather than the best and exciting move.  He believes Marvin has maxed out his abilities.  I get the sense a lot of other people feel the same way.  Someone in this thread mentioned that the Bengals may always be good under Marvin, but never great.

I'm not so sure about all that.  Maybe in 3, 5, or 10 years Zimmer and/or Hue have won multiple championships and we are still fighting for our first playoff win since 1991.  Even if that's the case, which I doubt, I don't think the Bengals made that big of a mistake.  I also don't think it's gloom and doom that Dalton will be on his 3rd OC in 6 years.  Firstly, Marvin has shown that he is great selector of players and coaches.  The Bengals roster this year had something like 38 players that they had drafted, if not more.  Good enough for most in the league.  A lot of that has to do with the stability  at the top with Marvin, and that he is doing a good job selecting players.  Additionally, he hasn't made mistakes with choosing coordinators.  He's done a pretty good job recently.

I think Marvin is well-aware of the risk of bringing someone from the outside in and potentially disrupting Andy's development.  However, I think Zampese will be staying in town (either as OC or continuing as QB coach), so even if he does bring someone from the outside in, there will be that stability.  Dalton's rapid improvement this year may have had a lot to do with Hue Jackson, and even if it was, he is not going to just lose those abilities.  He even said so himself recently, that those teachings will stick with him.

Anyway, who knows how Hue will do as HC.  Great OCs don't always make good HCs.  I think Marvin deserves a lot of credit, and I don't believe he is at fault for the playoff loss.  I also trust his decision for OC.

Nah, my future looks good. 4 years abroad. Coming back home next year to start my PhD.

(01-14-2016, 08:56 PM)whodeyfan1 Wrote: Lance McAlister has been arguing this on his radio show tonight, that he believes the Bengals made a huge mistake by letting Hue go.  He likens to this when some 40 years ago they chose Bill "Tiger" Johnson over Bill Walsh for the HC job, and we all know how that played out.  He thinks it was the safe move rather than the best and exciting move.  He believes Marvin has maxed out his abilities.  I get the sense a lot of other people feel the same way.  Someone in this thread mentioned that the Bengals may always be good under Marvin, but never great.

I'm not so sure about all that.  Maybe in 3, 5, or 10 years Zimmer and/or Hue have won multiple championships and we are still fighting for our first playoff win since 1991.  Even if that's the case, which I doubt, I don't think the Bengals made that big of a mistake.  I also don't think it's gloom and doom that Dalton will be on his 3rd OC in 6 years.  Firstly, Marvin has shown that he is great selector of players and coaches.  The Bengals roster this year had something like 38 players that they had drafted, if not more.  Good enough for most in the league.  A lot of that has to do with the stability  at the top with Marvin, and that he is doing a good job selecting players.  Additionally, he hasn't made mistakes with choosing coordinators.  He's done a pretty good job recently.

I think Marvin is well-aware of the risk of bringing someone from the outside in and potentially disrupting Andy's development.  However, I think Zampese will be staying in town (either as OC or continuing as QB coach), so even if he does bring someone from the outside in, there will be that stability.  Dalton's rapid improvement this year may have had a lot to do with Hue Jackson, and even if it was, he is not going to just lose those abilities.  He even said so himself recently, that those teachings will stick with him.

Anyway, who knows how Hue will do as HC.  Great OCs don't always make good HCs.  I think Marvin deserves a lot of credit, and I don't believe he is at fault for the playoff loss.  I also trust his decision for OC.

Also, again, there is no way, as close as Hue and Marvin are reported to be, that Hue takes Marvin's job. You can't just fire somebody's friend and expect them to take the job. That's a huge betrayal. Moving on is one thing. Taking that person's job? A whole other level.

(01-14-2016, 10:01 PM)hitchopottimus Wrote: Also, again, there is no way, as close as Hue and Marvin are reported to be, that Hue takes Marvin's job. You can't just fire somebody's friend and expect them to take the job. That's a huge betrayal. Moving on is one thing. Taking that person's job? A whole other level.

Funny, and true story about that.  I was eating at the Precinct shortly after Zimmer had accepted the head coaching job in Minnesota.  My wife and I were sitting in a small room, and literally at the table next to us was Hue Jackson, Mike Zimmer, and a few others who I did not recognize.  Of course, I hardly talked to my wife at all the whole dinner so I could eavesdrop on their conversation.  Someone made a joke about Hue taking over for Marvin as head coach.  Hue said something along the lines of, "Ahh nahh I don't think I could take over his position."  I don't remember all of what was said, but I did get the sense that he wouldn't feel comfortable taking Marvin's job.  

With the change of OC, a possible minor QB controversy between Andy and AJ and the lingering stench of another ugly playoff loss, next year could be a down year, like 8-8 or even worse. But I thought 2014 was going to be bad because of the coaching change and the hangover of the Chargers avenging the Freezer Bowl and they did okay especially considering all the injuries.

For me, Bengals football continues to be entertaining and I'm watching next year no matter what.

We'll be fine. As long as Duke Tobin keeps hitting on drafts so we don't have to start rookies in the starting lineup, keep the payroll manageable like we have been doing, and have a franchise quarterback healthy in Dalton, the Bengals will always be one step ahead of the majority of the league. Having those 3 things means you never have to rebuild, and winning more games than you lose.

Now I'm not saying the playoff curse will be lifted in 2017, that's up to the players and coaches to make happen, but the Bengals will have a winning record and be in contention to get a playoff spot just like the last 5 seasons. The franchise is fine and will continue to be one of the best in the league.

(01-15-2016, 12:43 PM)TreasureCoastBenGal Wrote: With the change of OC, a possible minor QB controversy between Andy and AJ and the lingering stench of another ugly playoff loss, next year could be a down year, like 8-8 or even worse.  But I thought 2014 was going to be bad because of the coaching change and the hangover of the Chargers avenging the Freezer Bowl and they did okay especially considering all the injuries.

For me, Bengals football continues to be entertaining and I'm watching next year no matter what.