(01-16-2016, 06:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because what most of us think of him is what most of the NFL thinks of him, apparently.

Agree with this.  He is not a very good OL coach.

As much as I dislike what Munchack did to Reggie Nelson I wish we had him as our OL coach.  Pitts line looks so much better than ours and they are a bunch of hacks.  Imagine what he could do with guys like Zietler, Bodine and Whit?

(01-18-2016, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you should make that bet without educating yourself a little better.

Accoring to ProFootballReference.com here are the number of combined "seasons as a starter" by OGs taken in the draft since 2010.  The first column is the OGs taken in the first three rounds.  The second column is the number by OGs taken later in the draft.

2015............4.......0
2014............7.......1
2013............14.....0
2012............16.....3
2011............9.......6 (4 of which are Boling)
2010............20.....3

So if you remove Boling from the numbers, OGs taken in the first three rounds have accumulated 70 seasons as starters while players taken in the 4th round and later have 9.

I said if you were to average out the draft position that I would guess it would fall somewhere in rounds 3-5.  And I certainly could be wrong.  But explain to me why you're counting players drafted in rounds 1-3 as one group when my guess includes round 3.

If you were to do this you need to do with the first two rounds.  And why does it only go until 2010.  I'd guess that close to half the league's starting OL were drafted prior to this.  This seems to intentionally look at younger guys.

If I get time I may very well add them all up and provide you with an average, but that's asking a lot of time.  But what you posted makes absolutely no sense as a response.

(01-18-2016, 03:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote:  But explain to me why you're counting players drafted in rounds 1-3 as one group when my guess includes round 3.

Because Boling was a 4th round selection.

What does your rambling about 3rd round picks have to do with a guy taken in the 4th round?

(01-18-2016, 03:35 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Agree with this.  He is not a very good OL coach.

As much as I dislike what Munchack did to Reggie Nelson I wish we had him as our OL coach.  Pitts line looks so much better than ours and they are a bunch of hacks.  Imagine what he could do with guys like Zietler, Bodine and Whit?

The Steelers have two first round picks (Pouncey and DeCastro) and 2 second round picks (Adams and Gilbert) on their O-line, and they are no better than the Bengals.

I know Pouncey was injured this year, but those 4 have been there a while.

(01-18-2016, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because Boling was a 4th round selection.

What does your rambling about 3rd round picks have to do with a guy taken in the 4th round?

Because the 3rd round is close to the 4th round?  Are you really this dense?  To people really need to explain every little minute detail to you, or do get off on being difficult?

The point made, which I thought was pretty clear, is that there are a lot of starting guards taken in the middle rounds (3 to 5).  Therefore, turning a middle round pick into a starting OG isn't all that uncommon.  The average draft position most likely falls close to this (4).

You act as if there is some huge cliff after the 3rd round.  Like, if you took your OG with pick 90 and molded him into a starting caliber then it's no big deal.  But if you took with pick 101, when then holy ****** shit, you deserve a round of applause.

(01-18-2016, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Here is the conclusion from that article.  But even this is subject to dispute


Put that all together and you can statistically prove (at least through the eyes of Pro Football Focus) that Kyle Cook is a below average pass blocker, and an above average run blocker. All from an undrafted player who had the much criticized Nate Livings as hisright left hand man.





But even this is subject to dispute.  Especially since this same PFF analysis had the Steelers Pro Bowl center Maurkice Pouncey ranked dead last as the worst in the league


Before the 2012 season Pat Kirwan had him projected as a Pro Bowl player


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19869729/keep-eye-on-these-offensive-linemen-who-may-deserve-pro-bowl-shots



1. Kyle Cook, Cincinnati Bengals: Offensive line coach Paul Alexander knew he found a very good player when the undrafted rookie free agent was signed from Michigan State in 2008. Four years and 48 starts later, Cook has given up one sack every 12 games..

 You found the ONE guy I found singing Cook's praises.....Kirwan.  Funny, you quoted a line that basically calls your boy Nate Livings a turd.

(01-18-2016, 02:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: ESPN player stats.  Look at the "splits".

Will do.

(01-18-2016, 02:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Wasn't Boling drafted near the top of the 4th round?  And he plays a position, that barring an elite level of talent, usually doesn't get chosen until day 2.

How does this mean "no one wanted him" or "that every other team passed"?  Yeah, no one wanted him before round 4.  Everyone passed before round 4.  That doesn't mean no one wanted him period. 

That's like saying no one wanted Gio Bernard because everyone had a chance to draft him.

If you were to go and average out the rounds in which each team's starting guards were drafted I'd be willing to bet that it would come up somewhere between rounds 3-5.  Developing a mid round guard to be an adequate starter isn't all that unique.  In fact, it's probably commonplace.

Holding up Boling as some huge accomplishment seems very, very desperate to me.

As I've said, and shown, many times......Boling was considered a top prospect at Guard coming out of Georgia.  This wasn't some project.

(01-18-2016, 05:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: As I've said, and shown, many times......Boling was considered a top prospect at Guard coming out of Georgia.  This wasn't some project.

The fact that he was taken in the fourth round proves more than projections before the draft.

If he was a top prospect he would not have lasted until the fourth round.

(01-18-2016, 04:58 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You act as if there is some huge cliff after the 3rd round. 

No.  I don't "act like" anything.  Instead I post facts that prove I am correct.

(01-18-2016, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you should make that bet without educating yourself a little better.

Accoring to ProFootballReference.com here are the number of combined "seasons as a starter" by OGs taken in the draft since 2010.  The first column is the OGs taken in the first three rounds.  The second column is the number by OGs taken later in the draft.

2015............4.......0
2014............7.......1
2013............14.....0
2012............16.....3
2011............9.......6 (4 of which are Boling)
2010............20.....3

So if you remove Boling from the numbers, OGs taken in the first three rounds have accumulated 70 seasons as starters while players taken in the 4th round and later have 9.

YOU are the only one doing any acting.  All you are doing is spewing some made up claim with nothing to back it up.

Fact...Boling was a fourth round pic.

Fact....There is a huge difference between the production of OGs taken in the first three rounds and OGs taken in the fourth round or later.  Clint Boling BY HIMSELF accounts for almost half (4 of 9) of the years as a starter among all OGs taken in the 4th round or later over the last 6 years.

You can post all the "well I think..." or "probably" or "I'd guess" claims you want to but none of them stand up to the facts that I post

The only job I've ever heard Paul mentioned for was Syracuse back in 08. His name was floated when they opened their coaching search and that's all that ever came of it.

(01-18-2016, 11:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: Right.....and Bodine would not suck as bad as he still does.  Let's be honest, Smith and Zeitler aren't exactly living up to draft status either.  It's beyond time for Ludwig Van to hit the bricks.  


Right.  Bob Wylie, NOT Elton Alexander.....as some would have you to believe on here. I exposed that as a farce on the old board, and apparently some on here think we have short memories. He didn't speak this year, he wasn't on the roster of speakers.  As to why I think he wouldn't be asked?  See my earlier post.  It;s about convenience.  IF.....and that's a huge IF, because no one else would hire him....he were to go to another team, he wouldn't be such a "featured guest", the next Bengals o line coach would.  He attends because he's the local guy, that's the extent of it.

Have you actually been to this clinic?

If you had you would know how bob speaks about these guys.

I want an offensive line coach who can move a piano, not play a piano.

(01-18-2016, 09:30 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I want an offensive line coach who can move a piano, not play a piano.

Yeah, why would you want a guy who has developed a complex skill that takes intelligence and dedication when you could have a meathead.

Why does anyone care that he plays piano?

Glad he does that instead of something destructive.

(01-18-2016, 10:48 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why does anyone care that he plays piano? 

It is a middle school playground mentality.

The people that criticize him for playing the piano are the ones who know the least about football.

(01-18-2016, 10:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is a middle school playground mentality.

The people that criticize him for playing the piano are the ones who know the least about football.

Lol the whole debate on Alexander is such a joke. The guy is a heck of an OL coach. I usually avoid these threads but it's amazing how some actually think they know what's going on.

(01-18-2016, 10:55 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol the whole debate on Alexander is such a joke.   The guy is a heck of an OL coach.     I usually avoid these threads but it's amazing how some actually think they know what's going on.

Yea he cranks em out left and right. Bengals are like a mill for stud NFL linemen. Every one that he coaches up moves on to have loads of NFL success because he taught them so well. Well mostly all of them except that bum Mathis who the piano man was smart enough to keep on the bench so the stud Livings could play.  


Its crazy how good he has his hand selected center playing. I mean the development we have seen out of Bodine the last two years is unheard of. Paul deserves another 20 year contract for that alone. 


Shoot I still cant believe how many pro bowls our top 10 pick RT has been to. And that stud first round RG. We could put a small child back there to carry the ball and they would get 10 yards a pop running behind that road grading right side.

(01-18-2016, 11:23 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yea he cranks em out left and right. Bengals are like a mill for stud NFL linemen. Every one that he coaches up moves on to have loads of NFL success because he taught them so well. Well mostly all of them except that bum Mathis who the piano man was smart enough to keep on the bench so the stud Livings could play.  


Its crazy how good he has his hand selected center playing. I mean the development we have seen out of Bodine the last two years is unheard of. Paul deserves another 20 year contract for that alone. 


Shoot I still cant believe how many pro bowls our top 10 pick RT has been to. And that stud first round RG. We could put a small child back there to carry the ball and they would get 10 yards a pop running behind that road grading right side.

OMG I am going to use really big letters because it makes what I say so much more true.

Lets fire Alexander and hire that guy who makes every draft choice he gets a All Pro ever year, and whose team never gives up any sacks and whose running backs lead the league in rushing every year!!!!!  Anything less than that is complete garbage.

And lets get someone who can not play the piano or do math or read because that stuff is for sissies.

So the Browns OL coach is better because Jpe Thomas has more pro bowls?