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(01-21-2016, 12:59 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly I agree with your if's and buts. We were the best team in the AFC, I have little doubt about it. 


I feel ya there. Steelers fans hate the Pats. I've just always been a "root for the underdog" kind of guy. I like variety and the Pats are the opposite of variety. 15 years and 10 conference title games? The sooner Bill and Brady retire, the better for parity in the AFC.

I can't disagree.  Then again, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the only way to shut up a Steelers fan is to start talking about how many Super Bowls the Patriots have.  Plus, the Pats went 10 years without winning one, so there was PLENTY o' time in there for others!

Plenty!  Additionally, I live between Cleveland and Pittsburgh and my ol' man and I recall (well, he's dead but BEFORE he was dead he recalled) listening to people call into the Browns hotline and say that Bellichick idiot will never win a thing in the NFL!

Rooting for Palmer.

(01-21-2016, 12:59 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly I agree with your if's and buts. We were the best team in the AFC, I have little doubt about it. 


I feel ya there. Steelers fans hate the Pats. I've just always been a "root for the underdog" kind of guy. I like variety and the Pats are the opposite of variety. 15 years and 10 conference title games? The sooner Bill and Brady retire, the better for parity in the AFC.

I used to hate the Patriots. Until I realized I get to watch (possibly) the best QB to ever play the game. I'll be sad when Brady retires. If he wins the Superbowl again this year there is no question he is the best QB of all time. 


With that said I'm still rooting for the Cardinals this year, but if the Pats win I won't be mad 

(01-21-2016, 04:07 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I used to hate the Patriots. Until I realized I get to watch (possibly) the best QB to ever play the game. I'll be sad when Brady retires. If he wins the Superbowl again this year there is no question he is the best QB of all time. 


With that said I'm still rooting for the Cardinals this year, but if the Pats win I won't be mad 

I just can't get mad at the Patriots.  They have a QB no one wanted, a HC who was fired by the Browns and went to court to get away from the Jets, they got a ring with Corey Dillon, Chad caught a pass in the Super Bowl for them, they make Steeler fans beyond angry, and they sort of cheat a lot.

The only sad part is the NFL helmet rule keeps them from wearing throwbacks with the goofy guy bending over on the helmet.

(01-21-2016, 04:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I just can't get mad at the Patriots.  They have a QB no one wanted, a HC who was fired by the Browns and went to court to get away from the Jets, they got a ring with Corey Dillon, Chad caught a pass in the Super Bowl for them, they make Steeler fans beyond angry, and they sort of cheat a lot.

And they have Elvis on their helmets.

(01-20-2016, 09:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wouldn't mind Peyton going out on top. Honestly, I'll take anything but the Patriots winning yet again. The endless Brady/Belichick slobbering is already at nauseating levels, so just imagine if they win a 5th title. 

This is exactly how I fell. Anyone but the Pats.

I'd like to see the Broncos win just so Peyton can go out on top. The Panthers are constantly bashed and I'd like them stick it in all of the faces of their critics. I seriously don't understand the hate that Cam gets. As for Palmer and the Cards. I'd be so happy if they won as well. I hold absolutely nothing against Carson and the way it ended here.

(01-21-2016, 04:07 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I used to hate the Patriots. Until I realized I get to watch (possibly) the best QB to ever play the game. I'll be sad when Brady retires. If he wins the Superbowl again this year there is no question he is the best QB of all time. 


With that said I'm still rooting for the Cardinals this year, but if the Pats win I won't be mad 

For me it's still Joe Montana. Montana's career 92.3 passer rating is more impressive than Brady's 96.4 when you compare their peers and era's. 

Also, Montana's performance got even better in the playoffs (95.6 rating) and the Super Bowl (127.8 rating), whereas Brady has been worse (89.6 rating in playoffs, 95.3 rating in Super Bowls - 6.5 YPA).

It'll be harder to make this argument if Brady gets #5, but he's already played longer than Montana and managed to stay with his original team and coach. Luxuries Montana didn't have late in his career.

(01-21-2016, 05:33 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: This is exactly how I fell. Anyone but the Pats.

I'd like to see the Broncos win just so Peyton can go out on top. The Panthers are constantly bashed and I'd like them stick it in all of the faces of their critics. I seriously don't understand the hate that Cam gets. As for Palmer and the Cards. I'd be so happy if they won as well. I hold absolutely nothing against Carson and the way it ended here.

I'll be rooting for whichever AFC team makes it there, now that pittstown is out of it.

Haven't really been hearing anyone bash Cam though. Cam will likely take the AP MVP honors even if they lose to Arizona.

(01-21-2016, 05:49 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'll be rooting for whichever AFC team makes it there, now that pittstown is out of it.

Haven't really been hearing anyone bash Cam though. Cam will likely take the AP MVP honors even if they lose to Arizona.

Cam has been bashed because of his celebrations and dancing.

(01-21-2016, 05:54 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Cam has been bashed because of his celebrations and dancing.

Ah, well, not sure what that has to do with his play though.

People didn't like Chad's end zone antics, but there was no denying he could play.

(01-21-2016, 05:58 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ah, well, not sure what that has to do with his play though.

People didn't like Chad's end zone antics, but there was no denying he could play.

Some Titans fan wrote a letter to Cam/Panthers about it after their game. It was pretty funny to read. That seemed to start the ball rolling about Cam and his "thug" ways.


Cam's response will always be a classic. "You don't want to see me dance? Keep me out of the end zone."

(01-21-2016, 05:58 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Ah, well, not sure what that has to do with his play though.

People didn't like Chad's end zone antics, but there was no denying he could play.

No one claimed that people bash Cam for his play. I said that the media (for the most part) and fans have doubted Carolina every step of the way.

Also - as BD pointed out - many fans bash Cam for his celebrations, as if he's a bad person. He's actually a good person, judging on his off-field work.

It makes the Panthers, and Cam, very easy to root for IMO.

(01-21-2016, 05:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For me it's still Joe Montana. Montana's career 92.3 passer rating is more impressive than Brady's 96.4 when you compare their peers and era's. 

Also, Montana's performance got even better in the playoffs (95.6 rating) and the Super Bowl (127.8 rating), whereas Brady has been worse (89.6 rating in playoffs, 95.3 rating in Super Bowls - 6.5 YPA).

It'll be harder to make this argument if Brady gets #5, but he's already played longer than Montana and managed to stay with his original team and coach. Luxuries Montana didn't have late in his career.

Also, Joe Montana never threw an interception in a playoff game.  Considering how may he played in, that is nothing short of astounding.

(01-21-2016, 06:08 PM)McC Wrote: Also, Joe Montana never threw an interception in a playoff game.  Considering how may he played in, that is nothing short of astounding.

Yup. This article makes some good points in the Montana vs Brady debate:

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/02/tom-brady-tied-joe-montana-in-super-bowl-rings-but-joe-cool-still-on-top-in-super-bowl-performances/

Quote:Let’s put Montana’s performance in those Super Bowls in some perspective. That line for the four biggest games would be something to which any quarterback would aspire over just any stretch of their careers. How many times, since 1970, has a quarterback even averaged 9.0 yards per attempt over a four consecutive games started stretch, while averaging 2.5 touchdowns (10 in 4 games) and throwing no interceptions?

Thirteen.

(01-21-2016, 06:08 PM)McC Wrote: Also, Joe Montana never threw an interception in a playoff game.  Considering how may he played in, that is nothing short of astounding.

Actually, he threw 21 picks in playoff games, just never threw one in a Super Bowl.

(01-23-2016, 01:46 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Actually, he threw 21 picks in playoff games, just never threw one in a Super Bowl.

For comparison, Brady has thrown 26 picks (so far) in the playoffs. 4 in Super Bowls.

Montana Brady debate is a classic. You really can't pick a loser between them.

One thing a lot of people don't consider is that Montana had consistently dominate defenses. The Niners defense finished in the top ten 8 of his 10 years as a starter, and half the time (5 of 10) he had a top 4 defense. Despite Belichick being a defensive coach the Pats defenses have not been very consistent at all. 2015 was the first time in 7 years that the Pats had a top 10 defense. In almost half of Brady's starting career (7 of 15 seasons) they have ranked 23rd or lower.

The defensive side of the Niners dynasty does not get enough credit. They were nasty good.

(01-21-2016, 06:02 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Some Titans fan wrote a letter to Cam/Panthers about it after their game. It was pretty funny to read. That seemed to start the ball rolling about Cam and his "thug" ways.


Cam's response will always be a classic. "You don't want to see me dance? Keep me out of the end zone."

I could care less about what dance he does, but when players do things like this to someone else's property and don;t seem to at least have the respect to except what they did was  over the line , i have a problem with them.. plus hated all the crap that went on with his college scandal etc.  Plus till this year, we had not lived up to the hype he has received as a QB.  This year he has become elite no doubt though. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14086240/cam-newton-carolina-panthers-rips-green-bay-packers-banner-says-just-respect-thing 

(01-23-2016, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Montana Brady debate is a classic.  You really can't pick a loser between them.

One thing a lot of people don't consider is that Montana had consistently dominate defenses. The Niners defense finished in the top ten 8 of his 10 years as a starter, and half the time (5 of 10) he had a top 4 defense.  Despite Belichick being a defensive coach the Pats defenses have not been very consistent at all.  2015 was the first time in 7 years that the Pats had a top 10 defense.  In almost half of Brady's starting career (7 of 15 seasons) they have ranked 23rd or lower.

The defensive side of the Niners dynasty does not get enough credit.  They were nasty good.

In the 4 years that the Pats won Super Bowls, their defense finished 6th, 1st, 2nd and 8th in points allowed. 

So it's not like Brady overcame bad defenses to win his rings. The defense was outstanding in all the years they won championships. The Patriots average ranking in points allowed during Brady's career is 8th. People have a really bad tendency to underrate the talent that's been around Brady during his career.