(01-27-2016, 08:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2. Didn't we see Eifert play at a top level this year? 

He was a beast in the red zone for TDs, but outside of that? Ehhh... ranked among TEs in 2015:

• 16th in receptions
• 12th in yards (12th in yards per game)
• 1st in TD
• 11th in catches of 20+ yds
• 16th in yards after catch
• 9th in first downs
  

Not sure that combined with only playing 44% of the offensive snaps in his career is a guy I would want to pay as the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL.

Of course this is all dependent on his 2016 season. If he's healthy and increases all his non-TD number rankings, by all means throw a bag of money at the man and let him get paid. If not, it starts being a much tougher discussion of risk/reward and benefit/cost. No sense in paying Gronk money to a guy who isn't Gronk.

(01-27-2016, 08:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was a beast in the red zone for TDs, but outside of that? Ehhh... ranked among TEs in 2015:

• 16th in receptions
• 12th in yards (12th in yards per game)
• 1st in TD
• 11th in catches of 20+ yds
• 16th in yards after catch
• 9th in first downs
  

Not sure that combined with only playing 44% of the offensive snaps in his career is a guy I would want to pay as the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL.

Of course this is all dependent on his 2016 season. If he's healthy and increases all his non-TD number rankings, by all means throw a bag of money at the man and let him get paid. If not, it starts being a much tougher discussion of risk/reward and benefit/cost. No sense in paying Gronk money to a guy who isn't Gronk.

He was actually 11th in yards per game and 1st in TDs, and most of those ranking for bulk stats would be in the top 10 had he not missed 3 games. That's not a top performer to you? 

You're using Eifert's rookie season (when he was 2nd fiddle) to drag down his snap count, and who's to say Eifert will be paid as the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL? I mean, if he's as middle-of-the-road as you seem to think, why do you also think he'll get the 2nd or 3rd best contract for his position? That makes no sense.

(01-27-2016, 09:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: He was actually 11th in yards per game and 1st in TDs, and most of those ranking for bulk stats would be in the top 10 had he not missed 3 games. That's not a top performer to you? 

You're using Eifert's rookie season (when he was 2nd fiddle) to drag down his snap count, and who's to say Eifert will be paid as the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL? I mean, if he's as middle-of-the-road as you seem to think, why do you also think he'll get the 2nd or 3rd best contract for his position? That makes no sense.

11th then, so maybe I counted one twice on accident, who knows. 11th is 11th in that stat regardless of how many games played. Not to mention the gap between 10th and 11th is 75.5 yd/gm and 58 yd/gm. Not exactly a small amount.

Eifert's rookie season he started 15 games and while he was "2nd fiddle" he also got banged up a couple times. I saw an injury report site that said he was on the injury report with a forearm injury in Week 1, knee injury in Week 14, and neck injury Week 17 (which led to his blank stat line in the wild card game). I counted Burfict not starting the first two games of his rookie season, too. Heck, Burfict didn't even get a stat the first game of his career.

I also didn't say he's middle-of-the-road and you know it. I said we haven't seen Eifert play at the top level yet, which a list of rankings in the teens suggests the same. The reason he'll get paid 2nd or 3rd (or maybe 4th or 5th) is because the Eagles vastly overpaid Ertz and screwed the rest of the TE market. Charles Clay and Jordan Cameron didn't help bring sanity to the TE market either. You talk about not making sense, but this is the league that gave Mike Wallace 5yr/$60m, and Anthony Collins 5yr/$30m one year before he was out of the league. People *will* overpay.

Once again, I said this is all dependent upon 2016. I said if he does better/is healthier then pay him big money, if not, then you have to think hard about it. Why the need to argue against caution? Are you telling me you want them to throw big money at him even if he misses 5 games and puts up another 450-600 yard season?

(01-27-2016, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The Browns are fine at WR, all of their guys were injured.

They have Gordon, Benjamin, Hawkins, Hartline and Barnidge who can also play WR.

They are stacked there and MLJ would be a stupid move for them to pay him that much for a #2.

To the OP, we need to bring back Iloka for sure. He should be the #1 priority.

After that...

MLJ, Adam, Nelson, Sanu, etc.

They are not fine at WR.. Gordon has been a complete failure for the last few years.. not even sure Browns will keep him.. Hawkins injuried most of year.. underachieved with what he is being paid.. Hartline average at best..  They have no real true #1 at this time

(01-27-2016, 08:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He was a beast in the red zone for TDs, but outside of that? Ehhh... ranked among TEs in 2015:

• 16th in receptions
• 12th in yards (12th in yards per game)
• 1st in TD
• 11th in catches of 20+ yds
• 16th in yards after catch
• 9th in first downs
  

Not sure that combined with only playing 44% of the offensive snaps in his career is a guy I would want to pay as the 2nd or 3rd highest paid TE in the NFL.

Of course this is all dependent on his 2016 season. If he's healthy and increases all his non-TD number rankings, by all means throw a bag of money at the man and let him get paid. If not, it starts being a much tougher discussion of risk/reward and benefit/cost. No sense in paying Gronk money to a guy who isn't Gronk.

Ah yes. I hope the Browns go hog wild with analytics and put all their faith in numbers like that instead of using their eyes. 

I'm not gonna call a concussion from a head hunter with a playoff team holding him out and playing it safe with their stud and a freak elbow mutilation injury prone. Led his position in TDs his 3rd year in the league. Eifert is big time and the TE we have all been wanting.

(01-27-2016, 11:30 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ah yes. I hope the Browns go hog wild with analytics and put all their faith in numbers like that instead of using their eyes. 

I'm not gonna call a concussion from a head hunter with a playoff team holding him out and playing it safe with their stud and a freak elbow mutilation injury prone. Led his position in TDs his 3rd year in the league. Eifert is big time and the TE we have all been wanting.

The highly technical analytics of yards, first downs, yards after the catch, and catches?

If leading your position in TDs were the only thing that mattered, then you must think that Jeremy Hill's 2015 was amazing, that the Bengals should trade the Seahawks AJ Green for Doug Baldwin, and Blake Bortles is the second best QB in the NFL.

(01-27-2016, 11:58 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The highly technical analytics of yards, first downs, yards after the catch, and catches?

If leading your position in TDs were the only thing that mattered, then you must think that Jeremy Hill's 2015 was amazing, that the Bengals should trade the Seahawks AJ Green for Doug Baldwin, and Blake Bortles is the second best QB in the NFL.

Do you think Eifert is a game changer? I do. Cant help it our team was loaded with weapons. If he was the #1 option his stats might be worthy of your respect. Or maybe if we were losing more often we couldve aired it out and got his stats up there with the great Barnidge. Our offense was pretty damn good. He was a big reason for that. If we didnt have an OC drawing up redzone pass plays that made a backup up offensive linemen the primary target he would have had even more TDs.

Eiferts numbers may never be elite if we continue to have WRs like Green and Jones, but he is among the elite TEs and will get paid that way if he can put up a healtrhy season next year.

And comparing his injury history to Burfict is a joke. Burfict did not miss a single game his first two seasons and once he returned this year he did not go out again. Eifert has been hurt constantly for three seasons. When he missed '14 he was recovering from 2 different injuries. When he got banged up as a rookie he was playing less than half of the snaps.

(01-27-2016, 06:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: concussions yes the knee looks to be recovered and thats hopefully a one time deal

as Far as Who to  Tag...  I would go with Adam Jones....

Based on the following
We never sign those who are tagged to long term deals it seems they are generally a 1 year rental.   Adam is getting a little older.  And was really good this year.  I think 1 more year of that caliber football would be worth the $$$$  and it helps adam out with his finances as well.

Focus on getting Iloka's deal done asap... so thats an option.  Cause i dont wanna see Iloka tagged then go away.

The only person i can remember signing long term after getting the tag was nugent.

Some quick math tells me the franchise tag for a cornerback should be about $13 million.  You really think Adam Jones is worth that kind of money??

(01-27-2016, 09:46 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: They are not fine at WR.. Gordon has been a complete failure for the last few years.. not even sure Browns will keep him.. Hawkins injuried most of year.. underachieved with what he is being paid.. Hartline average at best..  They have no real true #1 at this time

MLJ is not a #1 so he should not be on their list then if what you say is true.

Oh yeah, i forgot they have Bowe too who should be much better next season.

(01-28-2016, 10:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: comparing his injury history to Burfict is a joke.  Burfict did not miss a single game his first two seasons and once he returned this year he did not go out again.  Eifert has been hurt constantly for three seasons.  When he missed '14 he was recovering from 2 different injuries.  When he got banged up as a rookie he was playing less than half of the snaps.

The joke is to suggest that Eifert has been hurt "constantly", while pretending that Burfict has been some sort of iron man. The difference isn't nearly as huge as you want to make it seem.

Other than 2014, Eifert has missed a grand total of 4 games. So 90% of his missed time is from 1 injury. You could say the same of Burfict's knee injury, which caused him to miss 17 games. Burfict has at least one concussion last year, but I can't remember if that caused him to miss any games.

You guys keep using terms like "banged up" when talking about Eifert's rookie season, but he missed 1 game. Ultimately, all that matters is missed time. All players get "banged up". It's the NFL. It really is a shame that some are so desperate to keep the injury-prone narrative going that they think a dirty hit from Mike Mitchell (who was flagged and fined $23k) is more proof that Eifert is made of glass.

(01-28-2016, 10:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Eiferts numbers may never be elite if we continue to have WRs like Green and Jones, but he is among the elite TEs and will get paid that way if he can put up a healtrhy season next year.

And comparing his injury history to Burfict is a joke.  Burfict did not miss a single game his first two seasons and once he returned this year he did not go out again.  Eifert has been hurt constantly for three seasons.  When he missed '14 he was recovering from 2 different injuries.  When he got banged up as a rookie he was playing less than half of the snaps.

One injury is the main reason why he missed pretty much a whole season. 1 frickin' freak play.

That to me does not mean he is constantly hurt.

(01-28-2016, 01:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: MLJ is not a #1 so he should not be on their list then if what you say is true.

Oh yeah, i forgot they have Bowe too who should be much better next season.

Bowe should probably retire. He couldn't even get on the field in a depleted receiving corps. He was a healthy scratch multiple times, even though he got a ton of guaranteed money. He took Cleveland to the cleaners.  

(01-28-2016, 04:41 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Bowe should probably retire. He couldn't even get on the field in a depleted receiving corps. He was a healthy scratch multiple times, even though he got a ton of guaranteed money. He took Cleveland to the cleaners.  

I believe Bowe's situation is more linked to the dysfunction between Farmer and Pettine. Farmer really liked Bowe, but Pettine didn't want to use him.

(01-25-2016, 05:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Iloka easily.

1.) How Many 6-4 safeties can cover the ground he can.
2.) It seems to be a week safety class this upcoming draft.
3.)Of course I would rather sign him to a long term deal.

(01-28-2016, 05:17 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I believe Bowe's situation is more linked to the dysfunction between Farmer and Pettine. Farmer really liked Bowe, but Pettine didn't want to use him.

Yep. It didn't help that Bowe reported to TC like 20 lbs overweight, but he was in shape after a few games. Pettine just refused to use him.

Bowe is near the end, but I don't think he's washed up. He could've helped Cleveland this season. 

(01-28-2016, 05:17 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I believe Bowe's situation is more linked to the dysfunction between Farmer and Pettine. Farmer really liked Bowe, but Pettine didn't want to use him.

(01-28-2016, 10:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yep. It didn't help that Bowe reported to TC like 20 lbs overweight, but he was in shape after a few games. Pettine just refused to use him.

Bowe is near the end, but I don't think he's washed up. He could've helped Cleveland this season. 

Precisely.