http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/john-elway-on-replacing-john-fox-this-is-why-we-made-the-decision/


Just going to the Super Bowl and winning some playoff games weren't enough in Denver but in the Bengals front office John Fox would have a permanent head coaching job. Funny how different some front offices view a successful season going forward into the next season.

(02-02-2016, 03:36 PM)GodFather Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/john-elway-on-replacing-john-fox-this-is-why-we-made-the-decision/


Just going to the Super Bowl and winning some playoff games weren't enough in Denver but in the Bengals front office John Fox would have a permanent head coaching job. Funny how different some front offices view a successful season going forward into the next season.

I thought you were going to say a GOOD FA acquisition, but this is right too.....

(02-02-2016, 03:55 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I thought you were going to say a GOOD FA acquisition, but this is right too.....

Haha true.

Now what happens if the same result happens with Kubiak?
They get shellacked in the SB....

(02-02-2016, 03:36 PM)GodFather Wrote:  Funny how different some front offices view a successful season going forward into the next season.

Funny how no other team has ever done this (except maybe Dallas with Jimmy Johnson), yet some people think it is the common practice around the league.

Another playoff win.

It makes it sound AS IF Kubiac has already single handedly won the super bowl and Fox lead them down the path of 0-16 which obviously didn't happen. It's easy to sit at home and proclaim that Elway is some sort of oracle with divine visions of the future, but I'm going out on a limb here and saying that there were other factors that went into the decision that aren't reported and the articles author may be trying to convince us that his few paragraphs are carved in stone truth handed down from above. I have a hunch that there was a fear that Fox might just keel over midseason and leave them without a head coach, but try to sell that to a fan base. Easy answers are always in great demand and easily reported, but complex answers typically are not because the vast majority of readers wouldn't wade through complex answers..
I have a hunch the outcome of the game has already been determined to make Manning out to be the guy who has a lousy season, but at the last moment suddenly plays like he's in his prime to rewrite the Elway story with Manning ..
Somehow it just feels like a Hooeywood script. I'm almost expecting to hear that Manning was raised by wolves and had to fight his way from Siberia in the dead of the Siberian winter and swam across the Bearing sea with the single goal of winning the super bowl right before he retires....

(02-02-2016, 04:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how no other team has ever done this (except maybe Dallas with Jimmy Johnson), yet some people think it is the common practice around the league.

Also the Buccaneers moving from Dungy and three straight playoff appearances to Gruden and winning a SB the first year.

Chargers going from Marty having 14 wins to Turner and going to the AFC Championship the first year.

Just off the top of my head to go with your Cowboys example and now the Broncos example. So that's 4 right then and there.


Now name me one other team who would keep their HC after 13 years of no playoff wins, including 0-7. Oh wait, it literally is the only example, because he's the worst postseason coach in NFL history.

(02-02-2016, 04:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Also the Buccaneers moving from Dungy and three straight playoff appearances to Gruden and winning a SB the first year.

One of the biggest mistakes the Bucs ever made.

Dungy won at a higher rate at Tampa Bay than Gruden did after he took over.

Dungy won at a higher rate once he left Tamps than Gruden did after he took over.

Gruden won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team and then ran it into the ground.  Dungy continued to win after he left the Bucs.

(02-02-2016, 04:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just off the top of my head to go with your Cowboys example and now the Broncos example. So that's 4 right then and there.

4 times in the last 30 years?

That is your proof of what every other team in the league would do?

I wouldn't slam the o/p. There's no arguing MB definition of success isn't the same as the majority of front offices in the league. You just have to worry about another window closing during what could have been a big era for Bengals fans the last 5 years.

I'm not even concerned about signing any FAs this year just resign as many of our guys as possible and draft well

(02-02-2016, 03:36 PM)GodFather Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/john-elway-on-replacing-john-fox-this-is-why-we-made-the-decision/


Just going to the Super Bowl and winning some playoff games weren't enough in Denver but in the Bengals front office John Fox would have a permanent head coaching job. Funny how different some front offices view a successful season going forward into the next season.

because they went all in on a QB that should have probly already retired.

(02-02-2016, 04:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 4 times in the last 30 years?

That is your proof of what every other team in the league would do?

No, but word for word you said:

"Funny how no other team has ever done this..."


I never argued that it was a frequently done thing. After all, how often do coaches get stuck in the playoffs without success? There's not even a single active HC in the NFL who is 0-2 in the playoffs or worse in their career other than Lewis. Heck, there are only four active HC ion the NFL who have appeared in a playoff game and not one a single one, Lewis and then three coaches who are 0-1. (Zimmer, Gruden, O'Brien) All of them have only been HC for 2 years.

The situation doesn't happen often because the lack of success is never tolerated for that long. But my proof was only that it HAS happened, to counteract your argument that "no other team has ever done" it.

(02-02-2016, 05:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, but word for word you said:

"Funny how no other team has ever done this..."

I was thinking that Fox got fired after getting blown out in the Super Bowl, but he actually lasted another year.

(02-02-2016, 05:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I never argued that it was a frequently done thing. After all, how often do coaches get stuck in the playoffs without success? There's not even a single active HC in the NFL who is 0-2 in the playoffs or worse in their career other than Lewis. Heck, there are only four active HC ion the NFL who have appeared in a playoff game and not one a single one, Lewis and then three coaches who are 0-1. (Zimmer, Gruden, O'Brien) All of them have only been HC for 2 years.

Getting stuck in the playoffs is not that bad of a thing.  Coaches generally get fired for NOT making the playoffs.  that explains all the turnover.


There are lots of teams who have fired multiple coaches and never win in the playoffs.  There is no proof that changing coaches helps anything.  In fact most times teams do worse after a coaching change.

Well if John Fox was our coach with this level of talent- he'd win. I like Marvin, but he's not a strong leader.

I also pick the Panthers in the SB. Cam has proven why he was the first pick.

(02-02-2016, 05:56 PM)Shouldamapads Wrote: Well if John Fox was our coach with this level of talent- he'd win. 

The the four years Fox was head coach at Denver ('11-'14) he had SIXTEEN players chosen to the Pro Bowl TWENTY-NINE times.

If Marvin had that kind of talent he would go undefeated.

(02-02-2016, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The the four years Fox was head coach at Denver ('11-'14) he had SIXTEEN players chosen to the Pro Bowl TWENTY-NINE times.

If Marvin had that kind of talent he would go undefeated.

....and still not win a playoff game.

(02-02-2016, 05:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Getting stuck in the playoffs is not that bad of a thing.  Coaches generally get fired for NOT making the playoffs.  that explains all the turnover.


There are lots of teams who have fired multiple coaches and never win in the playoffs.  There is no proof that changing coaches helps anything.  In fact most times teams do worse after a coaching change.

Teams who hired a coach in 2015...

Broncos: 12-4 (1st round loss) to 12-4 (SB TBD) *Improved*
Bears: 5-11 to 6-10 *Improved*
49ers: 8-8 to 5-11
Raiders: 3-13 to 7-9 *Improved*
Jets: 4-12 to 10-6 *Improved*
Bills: 9-7 to 8-8

- - - - -
Teams who hired a coach in 2014...

Texans: 2-14 to 9-7 to 9-7 (Playoff Appearance) *Improved*
Lions: 7-9 to 11-5 to 7-9 (Playoff Appearance) *Sorta Improved?*
Vikings: 5-11 to 7-9 to 11-5 (Playoff Appearance, Div Title) *Improved*
Redskins: 3-13 to 4-12 to 9-7 (Playoff Appearance, Div Title) *Improved*
Titans: 7-9 to 2-14 to 1-6 (Fired Midseason)
Bucaneers: 4-12 to 2-14 to 6-10 *Improved, but it took a year.*
Browns: 4-12 to 7-9 to 3-13 (Got better, then worse.)

Most times, eh?