Went to the gym last night and worked out back and biceps for the first time since before Christmas (took some time off but am getting back into it this week).

I did:

3x6 wide grip pull ups
3x6 one are dumbbell rows
3x6 lat pulldowns
3x6 cable rows

3x6 dumbbell curls
3x6 hammer curls
Burnout on barbell curl, light weight.

My question is, today my biceps are sore, not really sore, but sore. My lats and back feel normal. Not sore at all. Does this mean im not hitting them hard enough? I feel like I completely wasted a workout....

(02-03-2016, 10:17 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Went to the gym last night and worked out back and biceps for the first time since before Christmas (took some time off but am getting back into it this week).

I did:

3x6 wide grip pull ups
3x6 one are dumbbell rows
3x6 lat pulldowns
3x6 cable rows

3x6 dumbbell curls
3x6 hammer curls
Burnout on barbell curl, light weight.  

My question is, today my biceps are sore, not really sore, but sore. My lats and back feel normal. Not sore at all. Does this mean im not hitting them hard enough? I feel like I completely wasted a workout....

Almost every back exercise also works your biceps but many bicep exercises don't work your back.  So you are actually working your biceps more than your back.

Also could be that you just naturally use your back muscles more in your daily life so they are not as shocked by the workout.

Nope, the biceps are just smaller muscles.

Muscles are "sore" because they actually tear.

If the wide grip pull ups aren't working the lats hard enough, it's time to add weight.

For example, I train weighted pull ups on a day other than the one that I might hit biceps specifically.  I usually do 6 sets, alternating between neutral and supinated grip.  At a body weight of 255, I'll warm up with a #25 plate hanging from the waist, supinated for 6-8.  Then to the #45 plate for the work sets, usually in the 4-6 rep range.  After all work sets are complete, I do a body weight burn out of AMAP pronated grip chin ups to failure.  Then on to loaded carries, and finally 6 sets on the reverse hyper extension.

The intense pull up work smokes the lats to the degree that I have leaned to not do barbell rows the following day..

(02-03-2016, 10:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Almost every back exercise also works your biceps but many bicep exercises don't work your back.  So you are actually working your biceps more than your back.

Also could be that you just naturally use your back muscles more in your daily life so they are not as shocked by the workout.

This. I probably lift back 4-5 times in any 14 day span. I trained biceps twice all of last year, because I get a better bicep workout constantly hitting back than any amount of single-joint movement curl workout.

For the OP, since it was your first day back doing those workouts, it was probably better to go with a lighter weight for 10 reps.

(02-04-2016, 09:32 AM)6andcounting Wrote: This. I probably lift back 4-5 times in any 14 day span. I trained biceps twice all of last year, because I get a better bicep workout constantly hitting back than any amount of single-joint movement curl workout.

For the OP, since it was your first day back doing those workouts, it was probably better to go with a lighter weight for 10 reps.

I got ya. 

I was just a little confused because I worked chest and tris last Monday and holy lord were they smoked. I was sore for like a straight up week after that and the day after I could barely more my upper body. 

I just didnt feel anything close to the same with back and biceps, although I am a little sorer today than I was yesterday. Go figure. 

I also worked out shoulder yesterday and am not feeling anything. 

(02-03-2016, 11:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, the biceps are just smaller muscles.

Muscles are "sore" because they actually tear.

Right, so wouldnt that mean im not working back hard enough that these muscles arent "tearing"? 

(02-04-2016, 10:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Right, so wouldnt that mean im not working back hard enough that these muscles arent "tearing"? 

Exactly. No pain, no gain is more than just a saying.

(02-04-2016, 10:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Right, so wouldnt that mean im not working back hard enough that these muscles arent "tearing"? 

Is six the number because the amount of weight only allows you to do 6, or is it an arbitrary number you just chose?

(02-05-2016, 11:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Is six the number because the amount of weight only allows you to do 6, or is it an arbitrary number you just chose?

Its pretty much a number I chose. 

Im really struggling trying to decide my rep ranges and when to go until failure etc. 

My ultimate goal is to put on some muscle mass. 

I am thinking of increasing my rep range to 8-10 reps to promote muscle hypertrophy. 

I have been reading a lot on this recently. One study I read said you more effectively gain muscle mass and strength by lifting 4 times a week in the 4 sets of 3 to 5 rep range rather than the 8 to 10 range. You should basically be doing a weight that puts you just below failure or 90%1RM.

(02-05-2016, 12:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: I have been reading a lot on this recently. One study I read said you more effectively gain muscle mass and strength by lifting 4 times a week in the 4 sets of 3 to 5 rep range rather than the 8 to 10 range. You should basically be doing a weight that puts you just below failure or 90%1RM.

I read this article: 

http://www.builtlean.com/2012/07/19/high-reps-vs-low-reps/

Pretty good one in my opinion. Like I said, my overall goal is to put on some muscle mass. Im not really going for a ton of strength training at a competition level. I think the 8-10 rep range would suit me for my goals. 

My 2 cents:

6 reps is to low. Should be 8 to 12.

If you want mass 3x8. Alot of meat and eggs.

Workout to muscle failure occasionally. Not during normal routine.

Back is harder to get to burn. 4x8

Use a weight where you barely get your last set and if you get your last set every time. Its time to bump the weight.

If you want liftings full benefit, your lifting form is important. Concentrate on rushing the blood to the muscle you are working on.

If you want to get bigger you have to lift more weight. That generally means fewer reps. 10 reps is more about endurance than strength, but It seems to me that just three reps would not be enough.

Tf the NFL really wants to measure strength they should have players max out on the bench instead of doing 40 reps of a lighter weight. And they should also add other events other than just the bench.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562558/

That is an actual study showing that 4 sets at 3-5 4 times a week is in fact better in almost every aspect of gaining muscle and strength. A lot of what people think they know isn't based in science, but rather casual observations. Other studies may have been done, but I know that one was relatively recent.

I know that's a radical thought, but I think even a slight bump to 4-6 at 80%1RM would be similar results to the reps mentioned in the study.

(02-05-2016, 02:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you want to get bigger you have to lift more weight.  That generally means fewer reps.  10 reps is more about endurance than strength, but It seems to me that just three reps would not be enough.

Tf the NFL really wants to measure strength they should have players max out on the bench instead of doing 40 reps of a lighter weight.  And they should also add other events other than just the bench.

After doing some research, I disagree. 

It seems like if you want to get STRONGER you have to lift more weight, with fewer reps. If you want to put on muscle and promote muscle hypertrophy, then it seems like a higher rep range and a moderate amount of weight is the way to go. 

Where is Sunset or Rugby when you need them?

(02-05-2016, 02:57 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: After doing some research, I disagree. 

It seems like if you want to get STRONGER you have to lift more weight, with fewer reps. If you want to put on muscle and promote muscle hypertrophy, then it seems like a higher rep range and a moderate amount of weight is the way to go. 

Where is Sunset or Rugby when you need them?

The study I posted proved in fact higher weight lower reps give more in muscle gains and strength. It's important to note both ways will yield gains, but the most efficient way is what I stated above.

(02-05-2016, 01:23 PM)tigerseye Wrote: My 2 cents:

6 reps is to low. Should be 8 to 12.

If you want mass 3x8. Alot of meat and eggs.

Workout to muscle failure occasionally. Not during normal routine.

Back is harder to get to burn. 4x8

Use a weight where you barely get your last set and if you get your last set every time. Its time to bump the weight.

If you want liftings full benefit, your lifting form is important. Concentrate on rushing the blood to the muscle you are working on.

Depends on if your goal is to increase muscular strength or muscular endurance.

As mentioned above 4 sets does seem to make a difference. What I used to do and my sons now do is 4 sets on what ever you want to blow up (special attention).

The problem with 4 times a week is burning yourself out.

My biggest problem with working out when I was serious (at my level) about it was burn out.

I would add and add and add until it took to long and ended up quiting for periods of time.

Gotta keep it reasonable.