(02-05-2016, 06:20 PM)Synric Wrote: The Bengals also have a very similar player to Marvin Jones in James Wright. Size speed athleticism explosion...really wish he hadnt been injured two years in a row. If Marvin Jones isn't back next year Wright really has a chance to show what he's got even over a more proven vet like Sanu ( if he's back) because of his measurables.

Neither Jones nor Wright have good "measurable" speed.

Jones plays much faster than his 40 time, but Wright has shown nothing.

I realize this is hardcore message board bias, but I feel like going into 2015 when we were getting Jones back it was like "This dude is ESSENTIAL!!! YAY!!!" and now going into 2016 (possibly) without him it's like "Meh, let him go. Some guy on our bench is as good or better than him. Big deal. AJ Green was the reason he was good." and so on.

Oh the fun of fandom!

(02-05-2016, 06:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I realize this is hardcore message board bias, but I feel like going into 2015 when we were getting Jones back it was like "This dude is ESSENTIAL!!! YAY!!!" and now going into 2016 (possibly) without him it's like "Meh, let him go.  Some guy on our bench is as good or better than him.  Big deal.  AJ Green was the reason he was good." and so on.

Oh the fun of fandom!

The difference of having a receiving threat at TE and a healthy AJ Green is what it was.

Good point Leonard Leap - I noticed that, too. Marvin is a very smart dude. There are reasons he's doing what he's doing with the national media out there.

RoyleRedLegs: I think it's a combo. I think he wants $7 million - but he also wants the chance to get AJ Green-type targets. So, it kind of goes hand-in-hand in a way. I think he'll stay here if the market totally deflates on him, but that seems so unlikely since, basically, he's the only guy you could look at and say, maybe he could catch 80. Reuben Randle probably has a stronger total resume, but Jones is exciting. No doubt about it.

MCc: Iloka was not happy he wasn't extended before the season. And I think he was ready to go when the season ended. That said, the door was always open (I've written / tweeted that a few times this year) and it remains open. Make no mistake - if he gets the money he wants elsewhere, he's gone.

For all these guys - it's all about leverage and the Bengals do want ALL of their FAs back and will present offers. These guys won't just push that off the table just because. But the Bengals always get their guys at THEIR number, and in the case of Jones and Iloka -- they desperately want THEIR number. Those just might not align like it did for Dalton and Green and Dunlap and Atkins ...

(02-05-2016, 06:44 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Good point Leonard Leap - I noticed that, too. Marvin is a very smart dude. There are reasons he's doing what he's doing with the national media out there.

RoyleRedLegs: I think it's a combo. I think he wants $7 million - but he also wants the chance to get AJ Green-type targets. So, it kind of goes hand-in-hand in a way. I think he'll stay here if the market totally deflates on him, but that seems so unlikely since, basically, he's the only guy you could look at and say, maybe he could catch 80. Reuben Randle probably has a stronger total resume, but Jones is exciting. No doubt about it.

MCc: Iloka was not happy he wasn't extended before the season. And I think he was ready to go when the season ended. That said, the door was always open (I've written / tweeted that a few times this year) and it remains open. Make no mistake - if he gets the money he wants elsewhere, he's gone.

For all these guys - it's all about leverage and the Bengals do want ALL of their FAs back and will present offers. These guys won't just push that off the table just because. But the Bengals always get their guys at THEIR number, and in the case of Jones and Iloka -- they desperately want THEIR number. Those just might not align like it did for Dalton and Green and Dunlap and Atkins ...

Do you see Iloka as a franchise tag candidate?

I feel like that the Bengals will offer Marvin Jones similar to what Emmanuel Sanders signed in Denver....3 years, $15 million. Sanders was brought in to play opposite of DT and they also had Julius Thomas, who just put up 788/12 the previous year. So Sanders was supposed to be a great 3rd option or emerge as the second option (which happened).

Given the salary cap increase, I could see the Bengals going $6 mill per year, but not $7 million. I'll guess 3 years, $17 million ($5.66 mill avg). If Jones gets offered $6+ million per year somewhere, I think he leaves the Bengals. He seems to want the opportunity to emerge as a WR1.

The Rams need a WR1. The Lions might go after him with Calvin retiring. The Browns are high up with the relationship to Hue but Travis Benjamin is reportedly about to sign an extension, so that might make it a bit less of a chance.
Do the Ravens go after him with Steve Smith likely just having one more year and Breshad Perriman a clear unknown that was hurt all year?
Do the Panthers add him to bolster their WR corp? Kelvin Benjamin should be back and Ted Ginn played well above expectations, but MLJ could really boost their passing game. Greg Olsen was by far their biggest pass catching threat this year.

(02-05-2016, 06:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither Jones nor Wright have good "measurable" speed.

Jones plays much faster than his 40 time, but Wright has shown nothing.

Marvin Jones thing is his explosion off the line which is the speed your pointing out Wright shows the same trait. And yes I know Wright hasn't shown anything he was injured pretty sure I mentioned that...doesn't mean he can't produce in 2016...

(02-05-2016, 06:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Neither Jones nor Wright have good "measurable" speed.

Jones plays much faster than his 40 time, but Wright has shown nothing.

Jones ran a 4.46

(02-05-2016, 03:29 PM)Benton Wrote: I think the concern would be $7m for our backup #1. If Green goes down, Jones moves up substantially in targets.

That said, I'll be surprised if we go $7. We'll offer $5, he'll go to Cleveland or the Raiders and we'll take a WR in the first couple rounds.

Did I miss something? Why does everyone think he will go to the raiders? They just paid crabtree and have cooper. He is gonna be their #3?

I agree somewhere between 5-6 will be out area. If someone over pays then so be it .... Sanu was a good 1 when everyone was hurt. Plus we can draft a guy to take Sanu's role.

I like having Marvin in stripes but I believe he will get a better offer elsewhere. I think the FO will resign Sanu to a reasonable contract and draft a WR.

(02-05-2016, 08:11 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Like having Marvin in stripes but I believe he will get a better offer elsewhere. I think the FO will resign Sanu to a reasonable contract and draft a WR.

Yeah, I really like Sanu too..

I hope we resign both but I understand business is business.

I'd pay it and get him for as long as he'll play for us. And I'm talking get him on for 5 years/35 million. When he is healthy, MoJo is integral to our success. He digs us out of 3rd and long deep in our territory. He makes the extraordinary catch. Haggle him down a little if you can without creating bad blood, but sign the man (maybe get him down to 5 years $30 million with a big guarantee?).

Too bad to hear that about Iloka. I hope we still find a way to keep him but sometimes that is how it goes. Better throw money at Nelson though to keep him around if Iloka is gone.

Edit: My original deal felt a little too long to be anywhere in the realm of possible so I shortened it.

(02-05-2016, 02:38 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Julio Jones and Antonio Brown had more receiving yards this year than Jones has had in his 4 years combined.  He did have 10 TD's in 2013 though and he'll use that as his main bargaining chip, which isn't worth much in my opinion as he only had 4 this year.

Mike Brown lowballs ($4-5 million)  him I think and I don't blame him really.

He had 4 out of the 10 TDs against the Jets in one game.

MLJ punished and embarrassed the F outta Dee Milliner who was a rook.

Damn, losing Iloka and Jones wasn't part of the plan.

So to recap-After that brutal PO game:
Jackson - Gone (replaced with a ? and oh shit he is coaching in our division )
Joseph - Gone
Burfict - Gone 3
Illoka - Probably gone
Jones - Probably gone
Smith - Gone
Nelson - ? (worried)
Pacman -? (not worried)
Hall - ? (vet minimum)
Can Eifert stay healthy for a entire season - ? (literally 50/50 which applies to this whole Jones thing because see 2014 )
How's Andy's thumb btw - ? (It's a valid question)
Gio's Brain -?
Was Hill a 9 game wonder -?
Why would we retain AJ Hawk -? (I don't care who he played college ball for)
What did I miss?


Doesn't feel good man.

(02-05-2016, 01:50 PM)milksheikh Wrote: Marvin Jones wants $7m+ per year..

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/2/5/10922544/marvin-jones-not-offering-bengals-hometown-discount-wants-7-million

Discuss.

$5.5 million base with escalators that can reach as high as $7.5 million.  Done.  

(02-05-2016, 06:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I feel like that the Bengals will offer Marvin Jones similar to what Emmanuel Sanders signed in Denver....3 years, $15 million. Sanders was brought in to play opposite of DT and they also had Julius Thomas, who just put up 788/12 the previous year. So Sanders was supposed to be a great 3rd option or emerge as the second option (which happened).

Given the salary cap increase, I could see the Bengals going $6 mill per year, but not $7 million. I'll guess 3 years, $17 million ($5.66 mill avg). If Jones gets offered $6+ million per year somewhere, I think he leaves the Bengals. He seems to want the opportunity to emerge as a WR1.

The Rams need a WR1. The Lions might go after him with Calvin retiring. The Browns are high up with the relationship to Hue but Travis Benjamin is reportedly about to sign an extension, so that might make it a bit less of a chance.
Do the Ravens go after him with Steve Smith likely just having one more year and Breshad Perriman a clear unknown that was hurt all year?
Do the Panthers add him to bolster their WR corp? Kelvin Benjamin should be back and Ted Ginn played well above expectations, but MLJ could really boost their passing game. Greg Olsen was by far their biggest pass catching threat this year.

I don't think the Ravens will go after a WR in FA. They have Steve Smith coming back, Breshad Perriman is an unknown, but he was their first round pick so they obviously think high of him. Plus then Kamar Aiken stepped up big and put up 75 / 944 / 5 in 2015. If Aiken didn't step up, maybe, but I think they'll be pretty set for 2016 with those three WRs.

(02-05-2016, 04:43 PM)Benton Wrote: I'm not disagreeing overall, but one year putting up numbers like a #1 while being a #1 doesn't mean as much four years later. Crabtree isn't a bad receiver, but he's not going to put up numbers like that again. Jones, while he may not either, has a better chance.

And to clarify, I don't see the Raiders paying him $7 million (but I could see them offering more than us, I think he'll go for around $6 and we'll offer around $5). I was commenting that I can see them being interested in Jones as he's got more potential than Crabtree. Honestly, if you were building around a young QB, would you sign Crabtree or Jones?

Crabtree caught 85 balls and 9 TDs in 2015. So I'd say he already has. That's why the Raiders quickly extended him with a deal for 4 years/34 million. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't recall any teams spending 6-7 million for a WR who would clearly be a #3. If anything, the Raiders should look at TE's.

(02-05-2016, 03:29 PM)Benton Wrote: I think the concern would be $7m for our backup #1. If Green goes down, Jones moves up substantially in targets.

That said, I'll be surprised if we go $7. We'll offer $5, he'll go to Cleveland or the Raiders and we'll take a WR in the first couple rounds.

I don't see the Raiders interested.  Amari Cooper is going to be a superstar.  Plus they have Crabtree.

If they lose both Marvin Jones & George Iloka it will because of stupidity, cheapness, and laziness. Everything the front office has said & done would be meaningless if they do not get at least one of those two signed.

I'd be interested to see the deep ball stats and analytics on Jones. His impact didn't always jump off the screen at me.

I think chemistry is a big thing and like someone else said, ask Andy and pay the man if Andy believes in him.

He was a 5th round pick who has had injury issues that kept him out quite a bit. He's played well and has been a big part of our offense. This is his chance to make his money and he every right to sell himself and talk every tactic to raise his price tag. The salary cap inflation (especially since they sold off some of the Thursday night package) plays into his hand but also makes the number a little less intimidating.

I wouldn't shy away from paying him something in the ballpark of what he wants if he's going to get it elsewhere. If he's getting low balled by other teams then 1-up the offer and call it a day. It's not my money so I say pay the guy if it is good for the team because that cap is going nowhere but up and the new CBA is set up so these guys can get bigger contracts once they hit FA.

I know we can't watch both Jones and Sanu walk (someone mentioned Wright as a replacement but he's a huge question mark still). Hopefully we can pay both though that may be the biggest roadblock if they both are getting their prices driven up by the market. We may be forced to pick one or end up shelling out a ridiculous amount per year to both.