(02-12-2016, 05:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: Kraft stood up to the league over Brady. He accepted his punishment for the picks (he later regretted it, but got his way with Brady playing). 

Brady got what he wanted, but Kraft didn't. And the relief did not come from Goodell or the League.  It came from an independent judge. So how does standing up to Goodell have anything to do with it?

Brady took the NFL to court.  Mike Brown has no way to do that.  And what happened to Kraft and the Patriots shows that you don't get special treatment by standing up to the league.

(02-12-2016, 02:22 PM)YoungThundercat Wrote: To your actual points: Yes, it is incredibly unfair that Vontaze is the one who is being made an example of, but it is because he was the most agregious offender in a game that was marred with ridiculous play and an over the top, out for blood crowd.

Now it's important that after reading that last line, you really comprehend the next one.

I personally had 0 issue with how physical the game was, nor how emotional the crowd was. In my opinion, that was good, hard, old fashioned AFC North division football between two blood rivals. I wish more games were that hotly contested, but...

The NFL is obsessed with the "casual fan". For right or wrong, they want to indoctrine people who aren't die hards into NFL fans, whether globally or domestically, generally at the downfall of the experience for the die hards. Look no further than the ridiculously imbalanced rulebook between offense and defense, the shot sighted way they handle breast cancer awareness  (we care about women, but only for this one month, please buy our vast supply of ladies replica jerseys in pink!)

So when you have a guy like Vontaze, with his history which gets brought up ad nauseum by the announce team (usually with a "highlight" package) everytime he is shown on camera, who then goes out and "brutally" (not my term, heard it from a casual) concusses another player, it's a problem. Then, when the media runs with that story all night and the next few days, overshadowing other playoff games, it's a huge problem. So Goodell does what he always has, he goes overboard to show people that he's a tough Commish and these things won't happen on his watch.

They dirty not-so-little secret being, of course, these things CONSTANTLY happen on his watch. He is an absolute disgrace and if not for Gary Bettman and his 3 work stoppages, Roger would be the absolute worst commision in sports.

The punishments are a joke, the over complicated rulebook is a joke, the fact that Joe Bob and Ace down at the hardware store can be NFL officials and still have their full 40hrs during the week is a joke, PR is a nightmare. But they are printing more money than both the damn mints. So why would it change?

Agree so damn much, it's not even funny, wish I could rep this 100 times over.

Being a gearhead and general tinkerer, I am into motorsports of all sorts.  I saw this EXACT same scenario play out with Brian France and NA$CAR.  The sport boomed in the late 90s and early 00s.  Tracks everywhere were adding seats, and everywhere else, new tracks were going in.  Some venues had waiting lists for tickets that were several years out. You wanted to go to Bristol?  Wait five years for a seat to open.

Soon, they too became obsessed with the casual fan and the Johnny Come Latelys.  So much so, that they begin closing up storied venues, changing rules seemingly at a whim, and constantly pushing out the old guard drivers with character for fresh faces and corporate spokesmen robots.  They completely alienated the hardcore fans like myself.  Now?  You can buy a ticket to the famed Bristol night race at the gate.  Daytona International Speedway, and Richmond International Raceway are removing tens of thousands of seats.  Everywhere you look, seats are becoming emptier and emptier, except for the old traditional venues like Darlington Raceway and Martinsville Speedway where hard core fans still gather in support of the hallowed grounds.  I hope the NFL doesn't succumb to this fate, but I see the parallels, and they are eerily similar.

(02-12-2016, 05:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Brady got what he wanted, but Kraft didn't. And the relief did not come from Goodell or the League.  It came from an independent judge. So how does standing up to Goodell have anything to do with it?

Brady took the NFL to court.  Mike Brown has no way to do that.  And what happened to Kraft and the Patriots shows that you don't get special treatment by standing up to the league.

Kraft showed up to his appeals and such. Didn't just send BB. Kraft was very active in fighting the league. Publicly and you have to think privately. To say he didn't do more for Brady then Brown has done for Burfict or Jones just isn't true. To say that he didn't fight against public perception of his team and Organization just isn't true. To say that he didn't get what he wanted when Brady played a full 16 games and made the AFC Championship game again just isn't true. Kraft came out firing when his Organization was under attack. And more power to him. That's a winner for you. And why players play for him (and take hometown discounts that we sure wish some of our players would take).

(02-12-2016, 05:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: Kraft showed up to his appeals and such. Didn't just send BB. Kraft was very active in fighting the league. Publicly and you have to think privately. To say he didn't do more for Brady then Brown has done for Burfict or Jones just isn't true. To say that he didn't fight against public perception of his team and Organization just isn't true. To say that he didn't get what he wanted when Brady played a full 16 games and made the AFC Championship game again just isn't true. Kraft came out firing when his Organization was under attack. And more power to him. That's a winner for you. And why players play for him (and take hometown discounts that we sure wish some of our players would take).

I agree he came out firing, but it didn't do any good.  He lost draft picks over soemthing that should have just been a small fine.  And the only relief Brady got was fro  outside the league.

In that case i would rather my owner keep his mouth shut and save us some draft picks.

Lost in the fray.....ol Goodell was pretty much hand picked by Rooney.

(02-12-2016, 06:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree he came out firing, but it didn't do any good.  He lost draft picks over soemthing that should have just been a small fine.  And the only relief Brady got was fro  outside the league.

In that case i would rather my owner keep his mouth shut and save us some draft picks.

 It certainly wouldn't be worth losing draft picks for.

(02-12-2016, 01:40 PM)jcfreeman0 Wrote: The National Fixed League (NFL) suspends #55 for the 2nd highest amount of games (3) for an on field infraction ever. He has never been suspended before in his NFL career and is considered a first time offender yet gets the 2nd highest amount of games ever in the history of the league. The hammer was dropped just 2 days after the game was played and the call on the field was arguably a legal hit. Not only does the NFL prematurely drop the hammer, they double down and stand behind their decision after a month to think about it. They chose to make an example out of #55 whether right or wrong. Then they willingly let Talib rip a guys head off inside the 5yd line during the biggest game of the year since he knew it wouldnt cost his team much and admitted that's what he was doing after the game, yet its been 5 days and no suspension. This isnt Talib's first rodeo either. He was suspended earlier in the year for poking a guy in the eye after the play in front of a ref and has a reputation similar to #55 as far as being a bone head. Roger makes 40+ mil a year. The refs arent even full time employee's. Think about that for a second, arguably one of the most important parts of the final outcome of games isnt even a full time employee. I read as a whole the refs make roughly 3.2 mil a year (total between all of them!). Why cant they have 10 guys sitting behind a computer for every game watching tape / replays / multiple angles etc and less on field calls and refs to get in the way. With a crew watching the games live it could be done in a very timely manner (similar to watching replay on tv but maybe even faster). This would cut down on bad calls, let them radio down to on field refs if they got a call wrong, or missed a call. The onfield refs cant even get it right half the time anyways. The National Fixed League is calling games now based off of slowed down to a single frame replay shots so why not adapt to it and have a bunch of tech guys sitting behind computer screens? Or scrap the slowed down multiple frame replay crap and call it how you see it in live game action. Its so easy to manipulate a play how you want it to be called when you have all of these slowed down replay angles and hd technology and only one or two guys calling the shots. I say it every year but after the Bengals Steelers game this year I'm really fed up. I'm losing interest in the game. It's the same shit different day every week with Cincy getting called but not called for them. It's like Groundhog day. Which leads me to my conspiracy theory that the league is fixed. Why wouldnt the NFL make these changes if its such a controversy every year? It would be so easy to implement and would produce a much better outcome of the games. I honestly think Vegas runs the show behind the scenes and its very easy to manipulate these games how they want. I'm not saying full out WWE pick the winner before the game starts, but a few calls here and there if they come up to help sway the momentum one way (calls that would be easy to miss or call even if its not correct such as holding, pass interference, catch/no catch etc that can be drive killers or spark the momentum of a drive) . It would be so easy to do. A few refs, a few executives and owners on board is all it would take. No one else would know. They Players, coaches, team employee's etc all not in the loop. You're talking about billions of dollars at stake so the risk is worth the reward. When you look at the first 50 super bowl winners and only 19 teams have won it all out of 32 teams in a league that is built to be evenly matched with a salary cap and designed to help the bad teams become good with the way the draft is set up, it just doesnt add up. Thoughts?

We already know that the NFL has no interest in right or wrong, only impression. NFL players were allowed to beat their wives until one of them got caught on camera. Then, suddenly, it's against the rules and there's an outcry.

But really what makes the Burfict penalty and fine and suspension so egregious is that Shazier's hit was worse and zero penalty, fine or suspension. Double standards are injustices in themselves.

(02-12-2016, 06:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Lost in the fray.....ol Goodell was pretty much hand picked by Rooney.

Yep

(02-12-2016, 08:57 PM)BengalChris Wrote: We already know that the NFL has no interest in right or wrong, only impression. NFL players were allowed to beat their wives until one of them got caught on camera. Then, suddenly, it's against the rules and there's an outcry.

But really what makes the Burfict penalty and fine and suspension so egregious is that Shazier's hit was worse and zero penalty, fine or suspension. Double standards are injustices in themselves.

Exactly.

(02-12-2016, 05:50 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Agree so damn much, it's not even funny, wish I could rep this 100 times over.

Being a gearhead and general tinkerer, I am into motorsports of all sorts.  I saw this EXACT same scenario play out with Brian France and NA$CAR.  The sport boomed in the late 90s and early 00s.  Tracks everywhere were adding seats, and everywhere else, new tracks were going in.  Some venues had waiting lists for tickets that were several years out. You wanted to go to Bristol?  Wait five years for a seat to open.

Soon, they too became obsessed with the casual fan and the Johnny Come Latelys.  So much so, that they begin closing up storied venues, changing rules seemingly at a whim, and constantly pushing out the old guard drivers with character for fresh faces and corporate spokesmen robots.  They completely alienated the hardcore fans like myself.  Now?  You can buy a ticket to the famed Bristol night race at the gate.  Daytona International Speedway, and Richmond International Raceway are removing tens of thousands of seats.  Everywhere you look, seats are becoming emptier and emptier, except for the old traditional venues like Darlington Raceway and Martinsville Speedway where hard core fans still gather in support of the hallowed grounds.  I hope the NFL doesn't succumb to this fate, but I see the parallels, and they are eerily similar.

Baseball also fell from grace in the public eye as well for different reasons, but it was still the undoing by people who believed themselves above everything.
I can remember a time when all summer just about every kid in the neighborhood would be out playing baseball all day long. I know we certainly did, but now come summer it's tough to find a kid with a bat and if you do the first thought that might come to mind is he's going to go hurt someone..

The thing I don't understand is that one of the big components of his suspension seems to be the hit on the TE from Baltimore. He was in his position, within 5 yards from the LOS, and the TE was coming in to him. He didn't hit him dirty at all, but all of a sudden, Burfict was trying to murder the guy (Ray Lewis reference intentional....more on that later). I completely disagreed with that fine and the cumulative effect of his suspension. The hit on LeVeon Bell was as clean a wrap and drag tackle as you will ever see. Conversely, Mike Mitchell head hunts Eifert, knocks him out for three games, and nothing is done to him in terms of a suspension. Is is because Burfict is bigger? Or because he is a Bengal?

Odell Thurman might have been the best Bengals linebacker ever, but we will never know. Chris Henry got massive suspensions as well for somewhat minor infractions.

Either Burfict does a 180 and turns his life on the field around completely, and by this, I mean he is able to simply make a play and walk back to the huddle, and never, ever, lower his head to make a tackle. Not only do we not need him to become the next Odell, but we don't need him to become the next Pollack.

I sincerely hope he is able to do it, because otherwise, he will likely be suspended for an entire year. It isn't right, the inconsistency of the whole thing when assbags like Mike Mitchell and Talib get away with much worse (I mean, after a head shot on Marvin Jones, he actually said to AJ "You're next"...nothing happened) , but it is the hand he is being dealt right now.

(02-12-2016, 08:41 PM)rob Wrote: The NFL is not fixed. If it were, we would not be allowed to bet on games in vegas, because the game would already be decided. and vegas would win 100% of the time. which they lose sometimes. let me guess, you still think tupac is alive don't you? LOL

When something doesn't go somebodies way, it is automatically a "conspiracy".

If it was fixed, then so was our 12-4 season. so your "conspiracy theory" means nothing.

Also, if we just won the superbowl, there would be NO threads on here saying that the NFL is fixed. It is not fixed, and to be honest, it is utterly ridiculous to even think that.

Are the refs a little biased at times? Of course. Does not mean that the whole league is fixed.

You are looking at "fixed" the wrong way....it is "tilted" in favor of the largest market/largest fanbases.  That equals larger dollars.  And don't fool yourself in to thinking those greedy bastards are concerned in the slightest of what is right and wrong.  It is 100% what generates revenue.  

(02-12-2016, 02:03 PM)YoungThundercat Wrote: A paragraph (from the Ancient Greek παράγραφος paragraphos, "to write beside" or "written beside") is a self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea. A paragraph consists of one or more sentences.[1][2] Though not required by the syntax of any language, paragraphs are usually an expected part of formal writing, used to organize longer prose.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

(02-12-2016, 02:34 PM)jcfreeman0 Wrote: I'm sorry about the grammar and non-paragraph form.

This freaking game has ruined my life. I still cant get over it. I'm trying to find closure and I decided to post / rant about it. I am a lurker from the original Bengals board but have not really posted much. I love the info and insight here though!

Simple answer to your rant. "Life" is never fair. "There are some of us" that have to work hard to meet ends. And there are others, that worked hard and stacked every brick and built an empire and the connections. And of course, there are those that don't do anything but they manage to get by. So in the end each of us belong in one of these three areas. I honestly think Burfict's suspension was ridiculous. I can understand 1 game but to suspend him for 3 games that was just injustice. I get what the NFL is trying to do but they shouldn't use Burfict as an example. I think that's what they are doing. Of course, some of you will say why isn't Aqib getting the same. I think the NFL is showing a lot more concern towards head injuries especially collisions rather than face mask. I also think there might be some favoritism or conspiracy involved. 

However, I still am a big believer in the fact that we fall in one of those three categories mentioned above. For example, at my work there are people who have been sucking 2 years in a row. Yet, they get promoted to higher level positions and huge pay bumps.  I can look at it and say it's unfair but I know that no matter what I do it won't change. There is politics in everything. Football, basketball, soccer, baseball, and even the government is all full of politics. We all play a game and we play to win. It sucks but sometimes our teams get punished and we the fans suffer. My heart goes out to you friend but don't let this dictate how you feel day in and day out. Stay strong and I promise you that these Bengals won't be mere cats next season. They will be a force to reckon with. Just don't let the forces that are out of your control dictate your mood.

Much love!

2001- WTC blown up PATRIOTS win Super bowl. Become dynasty during time of war. (cheating scandal)
2016 - Manning's arm shot, done, has to retire with only one SB ring. Legacy in jeopardy.

"I cannot believe they pulled it off"

Almost forgot: 2006- Steelers vs. Seahawks

"There are those in Seattle, and around the country, who will go to their graves believing that the Pittsburgh Steelers' 21-10 victory over the Seattle Seahawks in Super Bowl XL had an odor to it from the start. From Ben Roethlisberger's(notes) one-yard rushing touchdown that was inconclusive even on review, to the phantom holding call that took a potential 98-yard touchdown drive away from Seattle, the calls made by the officiating crew in that February, 2006 game created a tapestry of suspicion that persists to this day. Some believe that the refs were told to call the game tight on the Seahawks and loose on the Steelers, a concept which exacerbated the mistakes Seattle made in the game."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Super-Bowl-XL-head-official-admits-to-blown-call?urn=nfl,260901

(02-13-2016, 04:56 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You are looking at "fixed" the wrong way....it is "tilted" in favor of the largest market/largest fanbases.  That equals larger dollars.  And don't fool yourself in to thinking those greedy bastards are concerned in the slightest of what is right and wrong.  It is 100% what generates revenue.  

Except this is not true at all.  Seattle is not a large market.  Neither is Denver.  Where are the Jets, Bears, Eagles, Falcons, and all the other teams from the largest markets?

The NFL is not fixed (or "tilted') because it doesn't have to be.

(02-14-2016, 08:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except this is not true at all.  Seattle is not a large market.  Neither is Denver.  Where are the Jets, Bears, Eagles, Falcons, and all the other teams from the largest markets?

The NFL is not fixed (or "tilted') because it doesn't have to be.

Yeah, how bout them cowboys?!

(02-12-2016, 02:48 PM)513312 Wrote: YOu need serious help 

(02-12-2016, 03:15 PM)513312 Wrote: Lost in your incoherent babbling is any semblance of logic. 


You assert that there could be a small contingent of refs,  owners and execs in on a fix.

But, what about the fact that playoff and super bowl refs are not even announced or set until a few weeks prior.

What about if Hill just didn't fumble, the Bengals win.  People who scream conspiracy are pathetic, uneducated trolls.  


And Yeah,  david tyrees catch was definitely scripted  same with von millers sack/fumble.

People who comment on other people's grammar on fan message boards need help. This board is for serious Bengals fans not for people with the ho-hum attitudes about losses. Our coaching staff came out and publicly denounced the officials, the Steelers and the NFL in general. How often does that happen? If they thought something was fishy then why the hell shouldn't the fans