(02-14-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He publically admitted that he did ont nwork out at all in the offfseason after '07 when he was trying to cry his way out of town.  Then he put off ankle surgery until just before training camp so that he would not have to practice.

He went from being one of the hardest working bengals to a diva who cared abouyt nothing but his own fame.

I miss the old chad that worked hard.  I don't miss the chad after '07 who didn't care about anything but his publicity and twitter followers.

I'm somewhat playing devil's advocate here, but I always thought Chad acted out as a means to get his image out there in manners that went beyond the field.  It seemed like he acted out more once the Bengals were clearly not going to be NFL relevant, which in itself could be a self-fulfilling prophecy, as he didn't buckle down and work harder to MAKE them NFL relevant.

Again, I'm a cynic but I don't really have as much of an issue with Chad acting like a horse's patoot because I don't think any amount of hard work and practice on his part could have dragged this franchise to the top any year he was here but 2005, when he DID try.

I think this organization has taken a step in the right direction in the past 4 or so years, but I don't blame prior players for thinking they have to have a back-up plan while they are Bengals.  Some want traded to other teams before they are no longer starter-worthy, like Boomer, Corey, Carson etc., and some like Chad can only get on Sports Center by acting like a moron because the team is having a 4-win season. Even though the Bengals have made changes and strides, I'm still preemptively preparing myself for any of the team's current heroes looking to go elsewhere at some point.

(02-14-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He publically admitted that he did ont nwork out at all in the offfseason after '07 when he was trying to cry his way out of town.  Then he put off ankle surgery until just before training camp so that he would not have to practice.

He went from being one of the hardest working bengals to a diva who cared abouyt nothing but his own fame.

I miss the old chad that worked hard.  I don't miss the chad after '07 who didn't care about anything but his publicity and twitter followers.

While I don't condone Chad's behavior in the end; I still believe in the height of his career he gave it his all.

The writing was on the wall because his best days were behind him and he knew it(#1 WR status gone).

Added to that Palmer looked terrible(high passes/turnovers)with a bad O-line, and the franchise was in a muck.

So sad that everyone bought into the Superbowl bound hype that surrounded that circus.

Oddly enough the guy who gets slammed on the most was TO.  He actually kept in shape/worked out regularly and put up decent numbers. 

Ochocinco tried to mimic TOs "fluff" without doing those other things...  no wonder it ended badly for him.

Come to think of it.  Doesn't the whole story fit into the Bengals history of "doh"?

Why not embrace it as another "lovable loser" chapter in the faith riddled book of our team of choice.

(02-14-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He publically admitted that he did ont nwork out at all in the offfseason after '07 when he was trying to cry his way out of town.  Then he put off ankle surgery until just before training camp so that he would not have to practice.

He went from being one of the hardest working bengals to a diva who cared abouyt nothing but his own fame.

I miss the old chad that worked hard.  I don't miss the chad after '07 who didn't care about anything but his publicity and twitter followers.

...and yet played that entire year with a torn labrum. Damn him for quitting. 

(02-14-2016, 01:18 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Oddly enough the guy who gets slammed on the most was TO.  He actually kept in shape/worked out regularly and put up decent numbers. 

TO probably got the most ridicule because he was the outsider with a red-flag resume who showed up just in time for the franchise to implode.  It was also clear he wasn't sticking around, so that made it even easier to blame him.  At the end of 2010 it was Chad, TO, Marvin, Benson, the defense, and Carson's fault we stunk.  Then Carson had 2 good games with Simpson and Caldwell so he was off the shit list (until he wanted out, and then he was one of the big reasons we stunk again), Benson was sticking around so he was back on the "ok" list, Marvin wasn't going anywhere so why get mad at him, and Chad and TO were both to blame the whole time.

I assure you anyone we let go of after 2010 wouldn't have been missed.  That season was such a disaster that we were just dying to make changes and blame those who left for being THE reason it all went so bad just so we could have hope again.  I honestly believe Marvin Lewis could have been fired after the 2010 season and regardless of what happened since we wouldn't have missed him.

(02-14-2016, 12:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He publically admitted that he did ont nwork out at all in the offfseason after '07 when he was trying to cry his way out of town.  Then he put off ankle surgery until just before training camp so that he would not have to practice.

He went from being one of the hardest working bengals to a diva who cared abouyt nothing but his own fame.

I miss the old chad that worked hard.  I don't miss the chad after '07 who didn't care about anything but his publicity and twitter followers.

Fred I've seen you mention before that Ryan Fitzpatrick was a terrible backup. I think that and a torn labrum in the preseason were by far the biggest reasons for Chad's dismal 2008 season. I don't think Chad quit on the field, and I don't buy that Chad didn't work out at all during the offseason. He probably just said that in an attempt to get traded. He never looked out of shape that year. He never got gassed.

Either way, even if those things are true, 2008 is the only season where you can make that claim. In 2009, Chad was the only Pro Bowler on a division champ that swept their division.

It seems like the folks who resent Chad the most only seem to remember the 4 win seasons of '08 and '10 and blame Chad for those years, which is silly if you actually think about all the problems we had. Then they forget about or disregard the '03, '05 and '09 seasons as if they didn't happen. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and I don't see why some people feel otherwise:

Positives
6x Pro Bowler
4x All Pro
4x led conference in receiving
2x Division Champ
Franchise records in career catches, yards, and TDs
Single game record 260 yards in a game
Most of his celebrations were fun to watch
He helped lift numerous blackouts and was always engaged and friendly with Bengals fans

Negatives
Asked for a trade in 2008 and followed it with a terrible season (with injuries and terrible QB play)
The TOcho show (which was very similar to AJ Hawk's podcast, which no one cares about)
Sometimes the goofiness was a little over the top

People are dismissing a stellar career filled with positives over 1-2 disappointing seasons and some petty stuff. It's silly. Packers fans forgave Brett Favre, and I think it was classy for them to do so. Why can't we forgive Chad Johnson? (and no, I'm not saying Chad is on Favre's level, but the situations are similar and both were great players for their teams)

(02-14-2016, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and yet played that entire year with a torn labrum. Damn him for quitting. 

Except when he was benched for missing a meeting.

Your hero was a chump after '07.  He didn't care about the Bengals and quit on them.

(02-14-2016, 02:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  I don't buy that Chad didn't work out at all during the offseason. He probably just said that in an attempt to get traded.

He did not make this admission until the NEXT offseason when you claim he was fully dedicated to the Bnegals.  why would he want to get traded then.  He even said that he blamed the shoulder injury on his lack of working out.



It is getting ridiculous when you are forced to call your hero a liar just to prop him up

There was one point in time where i was convinced that chad johnson was god. So yeah i miss him

(02-14-2016, 08:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except when he was benched for missing a meeting.

Your hero was a chump after '07.  He didn't care about the Bengals and quit on them.

Oh no, I take it back. He missed a meeting; actually if memory serves he feel asleep during a meeting. Then the year after he "quit on the team' he had over 70 catches for over 1,000 yards with 9 TDs and got named to the Pro Bowl. He also cared enough about the team and its fans to go the extra mile numerous times to ensure a sell out and invite fans to places he was at. It's Ok to act like a jilted school girl, but when grown men do it on a public forum; it's kinda pathetic. 

Sure Chad was my hero, he was an all-time Bengal great. 

(02-14-2016, 10:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh no, I take it back. He missed a meeting; actually if memory serves he feel asleep during a meeting. Then the year after he "quit on the team' he had over 70 catches for over 1,000 yards with 9 TDs and got named to the Pro Bowl.

70 catches and 1000 yards was his worst season in years.  BEFORE he quit on the team after the '07 season he had 5 straight years with at least 1300 yards and 87 catches.

(02-14-2016, 10:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  It's Ok to act like a jilted school girl, but when grown men do it on a public forum; it's kinda pathetic. 

It is okay to carry a crush for a girl who treated you like crap, but when grown men do it on a public forum it is kind of pathetic.

I miss the pre-'08 Chad.  Not the one who quit on the team

(02-14-2016, 08:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He did not make this admission until the NEXT offseason when you claim he was fully dedicated to the Bnegals.  why would he want to get traded then.  He even said that he blamed the shoulder injury on his lack of working out.

It is getting ridiculous when you are forced to call your hero a liar just to prop him up

I don't need to prop Chad up. His stats, accolades and division championships do a good enough job on their own.

I'm just able to look at Chad's career on the whole without being petty and bitter over one year where he was frustrated.

Again, Packers fans forgiving Favre and acknowledging the awesome career he had = classy. Bengals fans harboring resentment towards an all-time great for something that happened 8 years ago? Weak.

(02-14-2016, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 70 catches and 1000 yards was his worst season in years.  BEFORE he quit on the team after the '07 season he had 5 straight years with at least 1300 yards and 87 catches.





It is okay to carry a crush for a girl who treated you like crap, but when grown men do it on a public forum it is kind of pathetic.

I miss the pre-'08 Chad.  Not the one who quit on the team

Chad never treated fans like crap;  to say so is just silly. He cared deeply for his fans.  But the silliness of that pales in comparison to asserting a 31 year old WR with a lot of miles, coming off an injury plagued year and putting up Pro Bowl numbers quit. And the only justification you can come up with is: He used to be better. 

(02-14-2016, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. 70 catches and 1000 yards was his worst season in years.  BEFORE he quit on the team after the '07 season he had 5 straight years with at least 1300 yards and 87 catches.


2. I miss the pre-'08 Chad.  Not the one who quit on the team

1. It's pretty obvious that the Bengals were a run-first team in 2009. Palmer only had 466 attempts, the lowest of any of his full seasons. For Chad to have 1047 yards and 9 TDs in that type of season was incredible really.

2. "Pre-'08" was 70% of Chad's career. If you count the 2009 season as a good one (most rational people would), then that's 80% of his career. Why are you so focused on the 10-20% where you perceive he quit? Aren't you the one who is always harping about people being negative and leading miserable lives?

(02-14-2016, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Chad never treated fans like crap;  to say so is just silly.

He completely screwed over the team that these fans cheer for.

That is treating them like crap.

(02-14-2016, 11:13 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2. "Pre-'08" was 70% of Chad's career. If you count the 2009 season as a good one (most rational people would), then that's 80% of his career. Why are you so focused on the 10-20% where you perceive he quit? Aren't you the one who is always harping about people being negative and leading miserable lives?

(02-14-2016, 10:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I miss the pre-'08 Chad.  Not the one who quit on the team

Chad did not just go back to his old self after the '08 season. He stopped coming to OTAs.  he did dangerous stuff like Bull riding to promote himself instead of concentrating on the team.

And you can draw a line trough his career right afyer the '07 season.  Even though he did have one decent year (poor compared to pre-'08) he went from aguy avergaiong 1400-1400 yards a season to about 800 per season.  and it was not a slow declinbe.  It started exactly at the toime he admitted that he stopped working out and started going way over the top with his publicity stunts.

And thye fact that he punched a woman doesn't impress me very much either.

What if your wife/girlfriend screwed your beat friend for a year.  would you say "Well, it was only for one year"?

(02-15-2016, 12:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And thye fact that he punched a woman doesn't impress me very much either.

What if your wife/girlfriend screwed your beat friend for a year.  would you say "Well, it was only for one year"?

This is low even by your standard.

My hope is no one engage you further in this discussion. 

(02-15-2016, 12:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1. Chad did not just go back to his old self after the '08 season. He stopped coming to OTAs.  he did dangerous stuff like Bull riding to promote himself instead of concentrating on the team.

2. And you can draw a line trough his career right afyer the '07 season.  Even though he did have one decent year (poor compared to pre-'08) he went from aguy avergaiong 1400-1400 yards a season to about 800 per season.  and it was not a slow declinbe.  It started exactly at the toime he admitted that he stopped working out and started going way over the top with his publicity stunts.

3. And thye fact that he punched a woman doesn't impress me very much either.

4. What if your wife/girlfriend screwed your beat friend for a year.  would you say "Well, it was only for one year"?

1. The bull-riding took place during the 2011 lockout. How was he supposed to concentrate on the team? Besides, the Bengals had drafted AJ Green and didn't speak to Chad in April when the lockout was temporarily lifted. He knew his Bengals career was finished.

2. It's really not that simple, Fred. The 2008 season was marred by injury and terrible QB play. This isn't debatable. It surely had a huge affect on his play. In 2009, he posted 1047 yards and 9 TDs. Not up to his previous standard, but we weren't passing as much. Carson had a measly 466 attempts and 3094 yards. Chad accounted for 33.8% of the total passing yards. In a more typical 4000 yard season, that would've calculated to 1352 yards. By 2010, we added numerous weapons including TO, Shipley and Gresh. Chad was 32 and it's just as easy to argue that he was on the decline as it is to say he wasn't giving 100%.

3. It was a headbutt and it didn't happen as a Bengal. It kills me anytime people rip any players off field incidents while at the same time we cheer for a guy like Pacman. Lets be honest, most of these guys aren't saints off the field.

4. Terrible analogy. Chad asking for a trade and then playing the entire season through a torn labrum is nothing like my wife screwing my best friend. That would be more like James Harrison leaving the Steelers to play for the Bengals. Steelers fans still love James BTW. 

(02-15-2016, 01:51 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2. It's really not that simple, Fred. The 2008 season was marred by injury and terrible QB play. This isn't debatable. 

An injury that even Chad blames on the fact that he did not lift weights the entire offseason.

See, it really is that simple.

(02-15-2016, 01:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: My hope is no one engage you further in this discussion. 

Then why did you?

(02-15-2016, 02:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why did you?

Assuming you do not know what further means.