(02-08-2016, 06:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Explain to me why we can't.  We have a ton of money under the cap and could structure a front loaded deal that would make Jones' salary average or below average for most of his deal.  That's how the Bengals generally keep their guys.

I see no reason why you can't sign him.  At this point in the team's "life cycle" you need to have him back to make a run next year.

You don't need him back.  You can get similar numbers out of a player in the draft and pay a fraction of the price.  I have never been of the mindset that this team needs to go all in for the short term.  Teams that have perennial success are smart in FA and don't splurge large dollars on #2 receivers.  I may not share this opinion with all people, but building through the draft at the #2 WR position makes more financial sense to me.

(02-09-2016, 05:05 PM)c12schleyer Wrote: Go back and watch film, Friend is the most impressive center in this draft.  He is a balanced center with strength in the run game, and quick feet for pass blocking.  He uses his hands extremely well, and keeps defenders at arms length.

As for two DTs.  I foresee a very good chance of letting 3 DTs go this FA.  Peko is declining and getting old, Thompson is ouchie, and Sims did not give us the push we expected.  Taking two strong DTs in the draft gives us two capable (cheaper) options in both the short and long term.  

This is not a team with many needs, and based on recent history... I could definitely see the front office taking two DTs to revamp the Dline.

Friend just got the combine snub.

This could definately happen now and would love it if it did.

(02-09-2016, 05:10 PM)c12schleyer Wrote: You don't need him back.  You can get similar numbers out of a player in the draft and pay a fraction of the price.  I have never been of the mindset that this team needs to go all in for the short term.  Teams that have perennial success are smart in FA and don't splurge large dollars on #2 receivers.  I may not share this opinion with all people, but building through the draft at the #2 WR position makes more financial sense to me.

This is where I think  I disagree with you.  I think we DO need him.  And part of the reason we do is that he is already familiar with our offense.  The only WR free agents who seem to do well are either returning to their old team or going to an offense that is almost identical - and mostly the former.  I think of James Jones in Green Bay.  Literally was doing nothing for the other teams he went to.  He returns to Green Bay and is an essential and productive piece.

Drafted receivers take several years to develop.  At best they will be productive in a very limited role.  I think if Wright and Alford.  

We were a limited offense when Jones was out, and a non-competitive offense when Jones and Green were out.  If we're going to be a playoff team I think we need him.  And I agree with Hammer that we will have the money to sign him if we let Sanu go.

Other than that I LOVE your draft scenario.  And if the worst happens (from my perspective ) I like the Fuller pick.  He's a stud that drops some balls.  But he'd be good enough for defenses to account for him.   I love the two defensive tackles.  Their different types with Collins more of a penetrating guy.   Thompson and Sims were averaging only 10 snaps a game.  We need more from our DTs in the rotation and both those guys would produce.

3wt Wrote:This is where I think  I disagree with you.  I think we DO need him.  And part of the reason we do is that he is already familiar with our offense.  The only WR free agents who seem to do well are either returning to their old team or going to an offense that is almost identical - and mostly the former.  I think of James Jones in Green Bay.  Literally was doing nothing for the other teams he went to.  He returns to Green Bay and is an essential and productive piece.

Drafted receivers take several years to develop.  At best they will be productive in a very limited role.  I think if Wright and Alford.  

We were a limited offense when Jones was out, and a non-competitive offense when Jones and Green were out.  If we're going to be a playoff team I think we need him.  And I agree with Hammer that we will have the money to sign him if we let Sanu go.

Other than that I LOVE your draft scenario.  And if the worst happens (from my perspective ) I like the Fuller pick.  He's a stud that drops some balls.  But he'd be good enough for defenses to account for him.   I love the two defensive tackles.  Their different types with Collins more of a penetrating guy.   Thompson and Sims were averaging only 10 snaps a game.  We need more from our DTs in the rotation and both those guys would produce.

I understand that, I just feel like for what MLJ gives us, we can replace it in the draft.

Also, the more I look at film, I think I prefer Tyler Boyd to Fuller...

I don't want to be stuck relying on a rookie wr.
Eifert will miss a few games, and in your scenario when he does, our only option will be Green and a rookie. That's why we should try to keep MLJ.

Now if you want to sign 1 guy on Offense that can elevate the play, that 1 would be Alex Mack (rumors are he is going to opt out of his current contract, and he wouldn't count against us for comp picks if we signed him).

I would rather Sign Mack + draft 2 WR's than Sign MLJ + draft C and WR.

(02-12-2016, 04:02 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't want to be stuck relying on a rookie wr.
Eifert will miss a few games, and in your scenario when he does, our only option will be Green and a rookie. That's why we should try to keep MLJ.

Now if you want to sign 1 guy on Offense that can elevate the play, that 1 would be Alex Mack (rumors are he is going to opt out of his current contract, and he wouldn't count against us for comp picks if we signed him).

I would rather Sign Mack + draft 2 WR's than Sign MLJ + draft C and WR.

That is a lot of attention and money thrown at two positions...

(02-12-2016, 06:05 PM)c12schleyer Wrote: That is a lot of attention and money thrown at two positions...

Who do you think would have a bigger overall impact on this team Mack or MLJ?
The money is there easily for one of these 2 and Iloka and depending on how much Hall and Jones want we can probably get one of them back as well if not both.
We have 38 mil in cap space.

Give Mack about 9 Mil/year for about 4 years.
Give Iloka 8 Mil//year for 5 years
Give Adam Jones 2.5 mil/year for 3 years
Give Hall 2.5 mil/year for 4 years

That would eat up 22 mil of that 38 mil.

To be honest, I'd be working with these 3 and trying to re-work Whitworth's, Kirkpatrick's and or Zietler's contracts NOW so I'll know how much I have to use.

if we can get 1 or 2 of them re-worked with more years then we can possibly even attempt to keep MLJ.

And as a last resort, Peko counts 3.75 mil against the books so if we need to get that money we could cut him.

(02-15-2016, 08:32 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who do you think would have a bigger overall impact on this team Mack or MLJ?
The money is there easily for one of these 2 and Iloka and depending on how much Hall and Jones want we can probably get one of them back as well if not both.
We have 38 mil in cap space.

Give Mack about 9 Mil/year for about 4 years.
Give Iloka 8 Mil//year for 5 years
Give Adam Jones 2.5 mil/year for 3 years
Give Hall 2.5 mil/year for 4 years

That would eat up 22 mil of that 38 mil.

To be honest, I'd be working with these 3 and trying to re-work Whitworth's, Kirkpatrick's and or Zietler's contracts NOW so I'll know how much I have to use.

if we can get 1 or 2 of them re-worked with more years then we can possibly even attempt to keep MLJ.

And as a last resort, Peko counts 3.75 mil against the books so if we need to get that money we could cut him.

Too much money on a center, draft bodines replacement
Too much money for iloka, he shouldn't be given more than 6 per year
I can get on board with the jones and hall deals...

I'm ok with cutting peko if we get 2 DT in the first 4 rounds.

Then use the rest of your cap space to sign 2-3 free agents that fit our schemes and use the rest to extend all of our YOUNG key pieces.

(02-15-2016, 11:36 PM)c12schleyer Wrote: Too much money on a center, draft bodines replacement
Too much money for iloka, he shouldn't be given more than 6 per year
I can get on board with the jones and hall deals...

I'm ok with cutting peko if we get 2 DT in the first 4 rounds.

Then use the rest of your cap space to sign 2-3 free agents that fit our schemes and use the rest to extend all of our YOUNG key pieces.

I don't think it's too much money on Mack as our Center (he's currently due to make  8mil/year and he's already a proven player in the AFCN), any other Center, yea too much.

Draft another C... Do you know that we only have about 3 more years before our 3 DL hit the Free Agency pool (Geno, Carlos and MJ)? We don't have the time nor the luxury to wait around for a newly drafted C to develop. We have 2 cheap Tackles now so the money we gave to Andre Smith can go to Mack instead, and then the following year, Whit will be a FA. The money is there, it's just a question of how long can we keep that window open before our Defense falls apart?

Mike M (the other one) Wrote:I don't think it's too much money on Mack as our Center (he's currently due to make  8mil/year and he's already a proven player in the AFCN), any other Center, yea too much.

Draft another C... Do you know that we only have about 3 more years before our 3 DL hit the Free Agency pool (Geno, Carlos and MJ)? We don't have the time nor the luxury to wait around for a newly drafted C to develop. We have 2 cheap Tackles now so the money we gave to Andre Smith can go to Mack instead, and then the following year, Whit will be a FA. The money is there, it's just a question of how long can we keep that window open before our Defense falls apart?

See, I don't think that the center position is what is keeping us from winning the Super Bowl (or a playoff game in general).  Is it a position of weakness, yes.  But if we are going to pay that kind of money to the C position, I would rather save it and give it to Jones.  WR has a much higher impact on the game. and if we are wanting to improve the C position through FA, I would rather go cheaper and get a guy like Wiesnewski, then draft Friend or Boehm later in the draft