The questionnaire thread got me thinking about a question that seems to be answered fairly one-sided. Instead of hi-jacking that thread I thought I would pose the question here and provide my thoughts:

The question of which CB you would keep between Leon and Pacman. In the questionnaire it seems most are conceding that the character question clearly goes to Leon, where it differs is that most say PacMan is a better CB. I disagree with that.

If you look at PFF ranking Pacman earns an 84.6 while Leon garners a 82.9 (FWIW Dre was 38.4) So PFF grades them at basically a wash. What PFF doesn't consider is where they played. Adam stayed on the boundary while Leon moved into the slot. Many argue that the slot corner has the most difficult job, mostly because they don't have a boundary to uuse as a 12th defender.

Leon is also younger and better on run support.

So who you got and why?

Leon has been the better corner throughout his years consistently. Just had an injury slow him momentarily.

Weigh in the character issues and it is a no brainer for me. Leon is a better mentor for the youngsters as well.

This is not how this poll will go though. Expecting a landslide victory for Pac Man.

(02-18-2016, 10:49 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Leon has been the better corner throughout his years consistently. Just had an injury slow him momentarily.

Weigh in the character issues and it is a no brainer for me. Leon is a better mentor for the youngsters as well.

This is not how this poll will go though. Expecting a landslide victory for Pac Man.

Agree. People keep telling me this team needs the intangible 'swagger' we're missing, so Pacman it will be.

Jones does provide return ability, something not to be overlooked.

It is almost a poor man's Lamar Parrish, Ken Riley debate. A steady no-nonsense Bengal lifer versus a flashy CB with return skills.

(02-18-2016, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The questionnaire thread got me thinking about a question that seems to be answered fairly one-sided. Instead of hi-jacking that thread I thought I would pose the question here and provide my thoughts:

The question of which CB  you would keep between Leon and Pacman. In the questionnaire it seems most are conceding that  the character question clearly goes to Leon, where it differs is that most say PacMan is a better CB. I disagree with that.

If you look at PFF ranking Pacman earns an 84.6 while Leon garners a 82.9 (FWIW Dre was 38.4) So PFF grades them at basically a wash. What PFF doesn't consider is where they played. Adam stayed on the boundary while Leon moved into the slot. Many argue that the slot corner has the most difficult job, mostly because they don't have a boundary to uuse as a 12th defender.

Leon is also younger and better on run support.

So who you got and why?

Depends heavily on price tags.

Equal $$$ = No Brainer
Leon

I've got to say they both scare the hell out of me in different ways!

Pacman - to my uneducated eyes, never mind PFF stats - clearly is the better corner. He appeared to be on his own often against the opposing WR1 and more than held his own...my memory may be selective but the only obvious time he got burnt was on a TD v.s. Texans but that was a great catch by Hopkins if i remember over a well positioned Pacman.

Pacman is underrated in run support too...he may be smaller than Hall but he's aggresive and actually is holding up better physically than Hall. I really loathe the attitude at times though from Pacman and you cannot say he may not make another mistake on/off field at some point in the season.

Leon looks really old now and just seems like he cannot run. I swear after every tackle at the end of the season he came up gimpy. If i was looking for weaknesses in our pass D he would be the guy i would target....the thought of him being isolated on the outside with a young flier at WR scares the hell out of me...you need to protect him

The Bengals shut down Antonio Brown (Burfict jokes aside) compared to how he fared against the rest of the league, and that wasn't Kirkpatrick's doing.

Or Leon.

I love Hall just as much as everyone else. A all time Bengal great in fact.

But his Achilles's

+ his age

= Jones

I still want him around though for the right price.

Adam is an All-Pro returner and a Pro-Bowl corner.

I like Hall, but he's really lost a step. If you look back at game film, every time he's covering a WR that runs across the middle from one side of the field to the other, Hall is a good 3-4 steps behind.

If I ask myself "Who would I rather having cover Antonio Brown? Dre Kirkpatrick, or Adam Jones?" Because that's really what it comes down to. Hall is no longer an outside CB, so if the Bengals don't have Adam Jones, you're going to get Dre Kirkpatrick vs Antonio Brown. Nuff said.

I love Leon, and his ability to comeback from injury, but in a battle of who to keep, give me Adam Jones.

(02-18-2016, 11:45 PM)TGISunday Wrote: The Bengals shut down Antonio Brown (Burfict jokes aside) compared to how he fared against the rest of the league, and that wasn't Kirkpatrick's doing.

Or Leon.

It's not like AB doesn't line up in the slot quite a bit.

Id probably give the edge to pacman jones because of his ability to return kicks/punts.

Hall hasnt been the same since his injury.

We paid 9 million to Leon last year. But gave the starting job to Pickman who made a lot less. That is really all you need to know.

How many 30+ year old CBs still go strong after dual achielles tears?

If the price is the same Pickman all day. Signing uptanding citizens has gotten us zero playoff wins and the most hated man in the NFL.

Pickman can still be a top corner Leon is getting the maybe he is better at safety talk.

Would like both back. Forced to pick one... It is clear

(02-19-2016, 01:42 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We paid 9 million to Leon last year. But gave the starting job to Pickman who made a lot less. That is really all you need to know.

And Dre started over Leon so are you sure that is all we need to know? 

I'd pass on both and let the kids take over. DreK, Dennard and Shaw. Shaw might end up the best of the bunch.

(02-19-2016, 01:56 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And Dre started over Leon so are you sure that is all we need to know? 

Well yea. Marvin would rather get a testicle smashed by a hammer than start a player he doesnt deem ready.  Williams looked good. F that. Why even see anything his first two years?

He has proven he doesnt know how to quickly prepare reinforcements. Dre k and Dennard. Measly first round picks. Bench em , no DB is ready until their 5th year.. Right? Shaw looked good? Better stop that. Who was that chris lewis harris? Lets give him another shot. 

Paying a safety? No way. Marvin knows ways around that. Why pay a young premier safety like Iloka? 

Sarcasam... But still

Was set on Jones before I even looked at other people's responses, which is weird considering how mad I was that he gave the Steelers a 35 yard field goal instead of a 50 yarder, even though it should have at least been offsetting.

Leon's injury history bothers me, especially with this team's luck and injury history. I trust Jones more in man coverage just because Leon doesn't seem to move as well, and people might think this is crazy, but corners need swagger, which Jones has more of.

The difference Jones makes in the return game also can't be understated.

Jones all day.

That said, it would be great to be able to keep both, but use Hall in a lesser role at a dramatically reduced salary.

(02-18-2016, 10:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The questionnaire thread got me thinking about a question that seems to be answered fairly one-sided. Instead of hi-jacking that thread I thought I would pose the question here and provide my thoughts:

The question of which CB  you would keep between Leon and Pacman. In the questionnaire it seems most are conceding that  the character question clearly goes to Leon, where it differs is that most say PacMan is a better CB. I disagree with that.

If you look at PFF ranking Pacman earns an 84.6 while Leon garners a 82.9 (FWIW Dre was 38.4) So PFF grades them at basically a wash. What PFF doesn't consider is where they played. Adam stayed on the boundary while Leon moved into the slot. Many argue that the slot corner has the most difficult job, mostly because they don't have a boundary to uuse as a 12th defender.

Leon is also younger and better on run support.

So who you got and why?

To address the younger part of your post.....that is true , but the injuries and the fact that Jones did not play for a rather significant amount of time tilts that back to Pacman by quite a bit.

Wacka wacka wacka wacka!